[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[aGENT]

Just now, SilentSam said:

Cheap skate comment.

 

All we hear on these boards.

Not cheap. Pragmatic. It just doesn't make sense for us to commit the term and cap dollars he's worth on the open market, given where we are in our cycle, the rosters issues we have that we'll need to address if we want to contend, or his age in relation to that cycle.

 

If he'll re-up for terms that make sense to the team, under those circumstances, fantastic! Happy to have him! I just have trouble seeing him give up the +/- $15m required to do so.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not cheap. Pragmatic. It just doesn't make sense for us to commit the term and cap dollars he's worth on the open market, given where we are in our cycle, the rosters issues we have that we'll need to address if we want to contend, or his age in relation to that cycle.

 

If he'll re-up for terms that make sense to the team, under those circumstances, fantastic! Happy to have him! I just have trouble seeing him give up the +/- $15m required to do so.

With Miller are we talking a 6 year x 8.5 deal?  

[aGENT]

Just now, Alflives said:

With Miller are we talking a 6 year x 8.5 deal?  

I think the team would like to keep it under $50m, according to the tweets from a couple weeks ago. So probably closer to $8x6 ($48m). Maybe they come up to  to somewhere in that $8-$8.5m range ($8.33 would be $50m).

 

Personally that's still a year or two longer than I'd prefer, but it's not AWFUL term (I certainly wouldn't go any longer). Much above that +/-$8m at 6 years of term though, and I get VERY wary. That's a bad combination RIGHT when Petey and Hughes should be peaking.

 

I also think he could get $60m+ on the open market as a UFA. Is he going to leave $10-$15m on the table...? I'm doubtful.

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Not cheap. Pragmatic. It just doesn't make sense for us to commit the term and cap dollars he's worth on the open market, given where we are in our cycle, the rosters issues we have that we'll need to address if we want to contend, or his age in relation to that cycle.

 

If he'll re-up for terms that make sense to the team, under those circumstances, fantastic! Happy to have him! I just have trouble seeing him give up the +/- $15m required to do so.

I’m sure this management group will offer what they think is good value for this player.

There are more than 2 people making this decision now, unlike the past.

 

The fact is, teams pay good money for good players.

Constantly on these boards,.  Horvat home town discount, Boeser home town discount,.  Petey, Hughes, Just about every player we draft we expect a “home town” discount for because of “Fan Love”.

That hinders a team..  you get staked with 5-6m contracts that players decline within, and because they are ‘home town’ players, no body wants to move them because they gave us a great deal.

 

 

it’s not how you manage and keep your best players,.   It’s how you deal with the ones getting lesser ice time, and assets they bring.

 

 Motte leaving is part of that process,.  Same with Hamonic,   that “attrition” allows for other players to get their chances.   Sometimes finding them like Dermott,  or pulling up like Lockwood.

What ever the case,  I’m sure the money that this management group offers will be correct.

Its the terms of the contract that will make a player and management feeling stronger and more at ease with their decision.. and more likely , flexibility.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think the team would like to keep it under $50m, according to the tweets from a couple weeks ago. So probably closer to $8x6 ($48m). Maybe they come up to  to somewhere in that $8-$8.5m range ($8.33 would be $50m).

 

Personally that's still a year or two longer than I'd prefer, but it's not AWFUL term (I certainly wouldn't go any longer). Much above that +/-$8m at 6 years of term though, and I get VERY wary. That's a bad combination RIGHT when Petey and Hughes should be peaking.

 

I also think he could get $60m+ on the open market as a UFA. Is he going to leave $10-$15m on the table...? I'm doubtful.

He’s taking a risk playing the extra season before signing.  He could get injured.  Or he could find the only better offers (60 mil) are from horrid teams.  

I also think our owner wants Miller.  

[Gawdzukes]

9 hours ago, JM_ said:

only on CDC could a 90 point centre be "the problem" 

 

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

Miller is having a career year.  Myers is +17 and we are still not in the playoffs.

We have a cap problem.  

How do we fix that?

OEL out would be ideal, but that’s not happening.  The cost would be too high to dump him.

So who’s next to clear cap?  Myers?  We might be able to trade him, but we actually need him.

Miller?  

Boeser?  (No value, so just cap saving)

Garland?  (He’s a good play, on a great contract, and starting his prime)

 

What do we do to reallocate cap to create a team that is actually in the playoffs year after year?

 

Miller keeps coming up as the guy to move out.

Miller gets the biggest return of assets and saves the most cap. It's a sensible solution that addresses our plethora of problems better than the other options available.

[SilentSam]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think the team would like to keep it under $50m, according to the tweets from a couple weeks ago. So probably closer to $8x6 ($48m). Maybe they come up to  to somewhere in that $8-$8.5m range ($8.33 would be $50m).

 

Personally that's still a year or two longer than I'd prefer, but it's not AWFUL term (I certainly wouldn't go any longer). Much above that +/-$8m at 6 years of term though, and I get VERY wary. That's a bad combination RIGHT when Petey and Hughes should be peaking.

 

I also think he could get $60m+ on the open market as a UFA. Is he going to leave $10-$15m on the table...? I'm doubtful.

Don’t forget Agent,  in this cap era, there are not many teams that can offer huge money on a player who is unproven on their team..  chemistry is everything.

 

LE might be a prime example of a UFA signing like that.

… and having said that,  some players may not want to move feeling their opportunities will drastically change,.  Maybe that’s where the thinking gets more palatable.

Money is one thing,.  But the uncertainty of your proven game with your existing team, might throw some balance in all negotiations.

 

Damn I hope Bruce is back.

Edited April 16, 2022 by SilentSam

[BPA]

Zib got $8.5M x 8yrs last year.  Miller has outperformed him this year.  Why would Miller accept anything less than that?  If anything, it’s the bare minimum.

 

Like I said before, Gaudreau next contract will probably be the benchmark for Miller.

[Nucker 67]

It's a very difficult decision. Kind of a confusing time with this team. No idea what they could look like next season. 

 

Allvin and JR said they want to build a young core and have them playing together, they want to have prospects pushing for spots, and that they need to clear cap space.

 

Re-signing Miller to a big contract goes against all of that. Have they changed their minds and after seeing the team compete over the last couple of months, now think they're close?  

 

I would love to get a haul in a Miller trade, it would be huge, but the Canucks would probably struggle without him and yep, no playoffs again. 

 

Could this be the Plan?

 

Veteran Leaders - Miller, Schenn, Chiasson, OEL, Hunt

 

Young core - Pettersson, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lockwood, Hughes, Dermott

 

Use Horvat, Boeser, Pearson and Myers to acquire more prospects/picks/young players

 

 

 

[aGENT]

25 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Don’t forget Agent,  in this cap era, there are not many teams that can offer huge money on a player who is unproven on their team..  chemistry is everything.

 

LE might be a prime example of a UFA signing like that.

… and having said that,  some players may not want to move feeling their opportunities will drastically change,.  Maybe that’s where the thinking gets more palatable.

Money is one thing,.  But the uncertainty of your proven game with your existing team, might throw some balance in all negotiations.

 

Damn I hope Bruce is back.

Nonsense. Miller can't be both as "irreplaceable" to us as you want to claim, and simultaneously no team willing to pay him his open market value. You can't have it both ways. 

 

Teams make cap space for good players every year. A team whose window is closing, and/or looking to win now, would happily pay him open market values in a year. Damn the long term consequences. That's not their concern.

 

Again, if Miller is willing to sign for terms that make sense for us, given where we are in our cycle, our roster issues, etc, etc... Great! He's a good player, I'm happy to have him!

 

If he's not willing to take that $10-$15m discount however, we're better off gaining the assets, cap space and flexibility.

 

There's really very little grey area here. Just like the Motte situation. I'd happily have retained him as well if he was willing to extend for +/- $1.5m. He wasn't, so he's not here anymore and we have a 4th and Lockwood instead. Period.

 

Miller is the exact same situation, if at a bigger scale.

Edited April 16, 2022 by aGENT

[KirkSave]

Whatever the future holds for Miller and this club is taking a back seat for me at the moment. I am simply enjoying a season for the ages from Miller

 

The guy does it all for this team and Podz is now learning what it means to be a true pro from one of the best in the league this year!  

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

Whatever the future holds for Miller and this club is taking a back seat for me at the moment. I am simply enjoying a season for the ages from Miller

 

The guy does it all for this team and Podz is now learning what it means to be a true pro from one of the best in the league this year!  

I noticed in the belt thing Pods sits beside Miller.  I’m thinking that’s planned too.  Maybe we are keeping Miller?

8 x 8 ?

[BPA]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I noticed in the belt thing Pods sits beside Miller.  I’m thinking that’s planned too.  Maybe we are keeping Miller?

8 x 8 ?

That is the same contract Hertl just signed recently.  Hertl has 60-ish points.  Miller has 90-ish points.

 

Please explain why Miller is willing to accept a $8M x 8yr contract?  

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It's a very difficult decision. Kind of a confusing time with this team. No idea what they could look like next season. 

 

Allvin and JR said they want to build a young core and have them playing together, they want to have prospects pushing for spots, and that they need to clear cap space.

 

Re-signing Miller to a big contract goes against all of that. Have they changed their minds and after seeing the team compete over the last couple of months, now think they're close?  

 

I would love to get a haul in a Miller trade, it would be huge, but the Canucks would probably struggle without him and yep, no playoffs again. 

 

Could this be the Plan?

 

Veteran Leaders - Miller, Schenn, Chiasson, OEL, Hunt

 

Young core - Pettersson, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lockwood, Hughes, Dermott

 

Use Horvat, Boeser, Pearson and Myers to acquire more prospects/picks/young players

 

 

 

I think you're overcomplicating something that's very simple. Miller either agrees to extend at terms that make sense for the club, or we move him for assets and cap space.

 

Just like Motte.

 

I don't think Horvat is going anywhere regardless of what happens with Miller, unless he refuses to extend (unlikely IMO). If we retain both, one of Miller/Pettersson simply plays wing predominately.

 

I don't think guys like Hunt or Chiasson factor in to long term plans at all.

 

 

[Nucker 67]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I noticed in the belt thing Pods sits beside Miller.  I’m thinking that’s planned too.  Maybe we are keeping Miller?

8 x 8 ?

Even though Miller is aged, and Schenn is similar, they provide that competitive, gritty leadership that the youth can learn from. I think Lockwood is going to be a very impactful player in a few years. Burrowsesque. 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by NUCKER67

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

That is the same contract Hertl just signed recently.  Hertl has 60-ish points.  Miller has 90-ish points.

 

Please explain why Miller is willing to accept a $8M x 8yr contract?  

Yup.

 

Like I've said all along. Happy to retain him at something like $8x6 but I just don't see why he, or his agent agree to take a $10-$15m discount "because".  They're going to be looking at comparables who are getting +/-$65m contracts. If we're only offering ~$50m....

 

I just don't see it in the cards. And I don't see management budging much on that given the circumstances around the team. 

 

It's actually astonishing to me how many people don't seem to see what appears to be pretty obvious data.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, BPA said:

That is the same contract Hertl just signed recently.  Hertl has 60-ish points.  Miller has 90-ish points.

 

Please explain why Miller is willing to accept a $8M x 8yr contract?  

Older, and wiser?  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yup.

 

Like I've said all along. Happy to retain him at something like $8x6 but I just don't see why he, or his agent agree to take a $10-$15m discount "because".  They're going to be looking at comparables who are getting +/-$65m contracts. If we're only offering ~$50m....

 

I just don't see it in the cards. And I don't see management budging much on that given the circumstances around the team. 

 

It's actually astonishing to me how many people don't seem to see what appears to be pretty obvious data.

Is our owner considered management?  I see him wanting Miller.  This owner flew to Florida to talk to Lou.  He went to BB’s house back in November.  If he wants Miller (which I think he does) he’s going to get Allvin to sign him.

 

8.5 x 8

[aGENT]

Just now, Alflives said:

Is our owner considered management?  I see him wanting Miller.  This owner flew to Florida to talk to Lou.  He went to BB’s house back in November.  If he wants Miller (which I think he does) he’s going to get Allvin to sign him.

 

8.5 x 8

No, I'm not buying your baseless owner-interference narrative you keep trying to peddle.

 

The owner wants a good team and to hopefully win a cup. If that's Miller on a team friendly contract, great. If it's Miller traded for assets, cap space, and youth, great.

 

[SilentSam]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nonsense. Miller can't be both as "irreplaceable" to us as you want to claim, and simultaneously no team willing to pay him his open market value. You can't have it both ways. 

 

Teams make cap space for good players every year. A team whose window is closing, and/or looking to win now, would happily pay him open market values in a year. Damn the long term consequences. That's not their concern.

 

Again, if Miller is willing to sign for terms that make sense for us, given where we are in our cycle, our roster issues, etc, etc... Great! He's a good player, I'm happy to have him!

 

If he's not willing to take that $10-$15m discount however, we're better off gaining the assets, cap space and flexibility.

 

There's really very little grey area here. Just like the Motte situation. I'd happily have retained him as well if he was willing to extend for +/- $1.5m. He wasn't, so he's not here anymore and we have a 4th and Lockwood instead. Period.

 

Miller is the exact same situation, if at a bigger scale.

Like I said..  dealing with a player/ players like Motte allows you to sign a player like Miller.

Same goes with a player / players like Boeser,. Playing far under his 7.5 QO ..  

moving players like Boeser also allow you to sign a player like Miller.

 

Dealing with the fodder, allows you to keep what is familiar to your club and worth it monetarily.

 

There are a lot of teams with their 8m + players locked up..  and a lot of teams not willing to throw away the future they have spent a lot of time creating either.