[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Coconuts]

 

 

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, grandmaster said:

I would say that Bo has pretty much played himself off this team. At his goal scoring rate, the guy is gonna command even more than Miller’s contract. The team might not be able to afford an 8M and a 9M per contract for the next 7 or 8 years (which goes into the mid 30’s). He may unfortunately be traded. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to keep both. Just don’t see this happening.

You know my answer to this. I've got my doubts as to how Miller would perform without Horvat insulating him at center, particularly without a legitimate 3C in place.

 

And if part of a Horvat return is a 3C as opposed to addressing the defense or desperately needed futures you're wasting that trade imo. Given how the Canucks season has played out thus far and the table they have to run to try and make the playoffs a Horvat trade is likely throwing in the towel. 

 

They're in tight with him, I don't see them being better without him. 

[Coconuts]

But hey, throwing in the towel could be best at the end of the day. If you're gonna be bad, be awful. 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

 

yeah its the same guy, Donnie saying it. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

You know my answer to this. I've got my doubts as to how Miller would perform without Horvat insulating him at center, particularly without a legitimate 3C in place.

um, pretty darn well considering he got 59 even strength mostly without Bo 5 on 5 last year. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

And if part of a Horvat return is a 3C as opposed to addressing the defense or desperately needed futures you're wasting that trade imo. Given how the Canucks season has played out thus far and the table they have to run to try and make the playoffs a Horvat trade is likely throwing in the towel. 

 

They're in tight with him, I don't see them being better without him. 

we do need a legit 3C for sure. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

yeah its the same guy, Donnie saying it. 

Dhaliwal isn't what he was, and I question his credibility at times, but I don't doubt that there's a lot of chatter about the Nucks around the league and their Horvat/Miller scenario. 

 

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

um, pretty darn well considering he got 59 even strength mostly without Bo 5 on 5 last year. 

 

 

we do need a legit 3C for sure. 

Perhaps, but I've made the argument that Bo doing his thing was a large part of why Miller had so much success last season. Key draws, taking on a lot of the defensive load, taking most of the draws. Having Horvat being him doing his thing contributed to Miller being able to do his, subtract Horvat and Miller suddenly has to take on more of a two-way role and likely doesn't have the season he had. 

 

And it's not as if Miller is stellar defensively, so I question what him having to take on more of a two-way role would look like if Horvat were to be traded out. 

[Coconuts]

Horvat made Miller's job easier, he's still making Miller's job easier. He leaves big shoes to fill and I don't know if Miller's up to it. 

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Dhaliwal isn't what he was, and I question his credibility at times, but I don't doubt that there's a lot of chatter about the Nucks around the league and their Horvat/Miller scenario. 

 

Perhaps, but I've made the argument that Bo doing his thing was a large part of why Miller had so much success last season. Key draws, taking on a lot of the defensive load, taking most of the draws. Having Horvat being him doing his thing contributed to Miller being able to do his, subtract Horvat and Miller suddenly has to take on more of a two-way role and likely doesn't have the season he had. 

 

And it's not as if Miller is stellar defensively, so I question what him having to take on more of a two-way role would look like if Horvat were to be traded out. 

sure, but every player has their strengths and weaknesses. If we move Miller out, who's going to replace his 99 points? 

 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

sure, but every player has their strengths and weaknesses. If we move Miller out, who's going to replace his 99 points? 

 

That depends, are you actually replacing 99 points? Because he's not a 99 point guarantee, up until last season he'd hovered closer to point per game. 

 

Pettersson and Kuzmenko will replace some of that if they keep it up. Mikheyev too. 

 

And if you can address the defense and bottom six, maybe you don't have to replace 99 points. Maybe you mitigate that by building a team that gives up fewer goals. 

 

Plus, like we've kept saying, it's not gonna be a single offseason turnaround. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Coconuts

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

That depends, are you actually replacing 99 points? Because he's not a 99 point guarantee, up until last season he'd hovered closer to point per game. 

 

Pettersson and Kuzmenko will replace some of that if they keep it up. Mikheyev too. 

 

And if you can address the defense and bottom six, maybe you don't have to replace 99 points. Maybe you mitigate that by building a team that gives up fewer goals. 

sure, but we can maybe it up all night. Not sure its fair to put Bo's responsibilities on to Miller if we move Bo. 

[Coconuts]

Just now, JM_ said:

sure, but we can maybe it up all night. Not sure its fair to put Bo's responsibilities on to Miller if we move Bo. 

If Bo moves who's going to immediately slot over to center? It's not as if we've got an abundance of them on the roster. We don't have a single prospect in the system who projects as a top 6 center, we don't have a proper 3C. Hell, right now it's debatable whether we've even got a proper 4C with Lazar out. 

 

If Horvat's moved out and the trade doesn't bring back a stopgap it's gonna be Miller who's taking on more, because it'll have to be. 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

If Bo moves who's going to immediately slot over to center? It's not as if we've got an abundance of them on the roster. We don't have a single prospect in the system who projects as a top 6 center, we don't have a proper 3C. Hell, right now it's debatable whether we've even got a proper 4C with Lazar out. 

 

If Horvat's moved out and the trade doesn't bring back a stopgap it's gonna be Miller who's taking on more, because it'll have to be. 

if we move Bo, I'm not sure we need to really care because it will be the start of the teardown. It can be Dries for how much it will matter.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

if we move Bo, I'm not sure we need to really care because it will be the start of the teardown. It can be Dries for how much it will matter.

If we move Bo I hope you're right, because if they try for another retool I'm gonna lose what remaining optimism I have for this management group. 

[SilentSam]

58 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

You know my answer to this. I've got my doubts as to how Miller would perform without Horvat insulating him at center, particularly without a legitimate 3C in place.

 

And if part of a Horvat return is a 3C as opposed to addressing the defense or desperately needed futures you're wasting that trade imo. Given how the Canucks season has played out thus far and the table they have to run to try and make the playoffs a Horvat trade is likely throwing in the towel. 

 

They're in tight with him, I don't see them being better without him. 

Miller has played a lot without Horvat over his tenure here..  and put up significant points,. and still is.

The fact is,  Miller is putting it on Horvats tape.

[Coconuts]

Just now, SilentSam said:

Miller has played a lot without Horvat over his tenure here..  and put up significant points,. and still is.

The fact is,  Miller is putting it on Horvats tape.

He isn't actually. Miller didn't have a single assist on a Horvat goal until his 7th and 8th goals against New Jersey and those are the only two goals he's factored in on pointwise.

 

Don't believe me? Go look at the box scores. 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

 

No brainer honestly. But hindsight is 20/20, at least with Allvin and Rutherford. 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

He isn't actually. Miller didn't have a single assist on a Horvat goal until his 7th and 8th goals against New Jersey and those are the only two goals he's factored in on pointwise.

 

Don't believe me? Go look at the box scores. 

 

 

I believe you...

 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

If we move Bo I hope you're right, because if they try for another retool I'm gonna lose what remaining optimism I have for this management group. 

I mean, they haven't proven that they've been able to make the right decisions. 

 

Welcome to Canada, JIM RUTHERFORD and ALLVIN. 

 

I think they'll have to start from scratch if they lose Bo. because then what reason does Pettersson have to remain and sign long term, and if you lose Petey, you might as well fucking start over. Who the fuck would we have that's under 25, and is near a point a game player? MILLER? WTF. 

 

Rutherford says he's got a plan. What is it is anyone's guess. 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

If Bo moves who's going to immediately slot over to center? It's not as if we've got an abundance of them on the roster. We don't have a single prospect in the system who projects as a top 6 center, we don't have a proper 3C. Hell, right now it's debatable whether we've even got a proper 4C with Lazar out. 

 

If Horvat's moved out and the trade doesn't bring back a stopgap it's gonna be Miller who's taking on more, because it'll have to be. 

Yeah, have you seen Miller at C earlier this year? He's been fucking horrible. I mean, unless management wants to tank. If they don't want to tank, then they wouldn't put Miller in the middle. Even Boudreau realizes that JT sucks balls playing in the middle, that he moved him to wing. If the head coach of your team doesn't believe in you in the middle, well....

 

[5nothincanucksohno]

17 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I mean, they haven't proven that they've been able to make the right decisions. 

 

Welcome to Canada, JIM RUTHERFORD and ALLVIN. 

 

I think they'll have to start from scratch if they lose Bo. because then what reason does Pettersson have to remain and sign long term, and if you lose Petey, you might as well fucking start over. Who the fuck would we have that's under 25, and is near a point a game player? MILLER? WTF. 

 

Rutherford says he's got a plan. What is it is anyone's guess. 

 

 

You sell it to Pettersson as his team now...previous leadership group couldn't get it done but mgmt believes EP is the leader to win this team it's first SC. Keep the Russians, have a big TDL/offseason and mgmt has two full seasons to keep/make him happy. But they need to get serious work done this TDL to acquire assets - either younger to follow the new leader or to be used as pieces to acquire support for EP. 

 

Trade Bo, Boeser, Pearson, Myers and other veteran dead wait for assets at the TDL.