[Trade] Maple Leafs trade Travis Dermott to Canucks for 2022 3rd-round pick

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, JM_ said:

they were also patient and didn't trade off their best core pieces - they only have 8 drafted players in their line-up right now. So it does show you can become competitive in ways other than blowing things up.

 

I don't envy JR's job right now, but if it were me, the first thing I'd be looking to do is clear cap from anyone not named Demko, Petey, Hughes, Miller, Bo, Podz or Boeser, even if it cost a little bit. 

How is keeping those guys (the core group) changing the direction of our team? 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

How is keeping those guys (the core group) changing the direction of our team? 

well, under Boudreau isn't the direction up? Green and Baumber were horrible, but under BB the team is much more competitive even with all the holes on d in particular. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

well, under Boudreau isn't the direction up? Green and Baumber were horrible, but under BB the team is much more competitive even with all the holes on d in particular. 

So go all in again, sacrificing pick and prospects (like the Benning method) in hopes to get into the playoffs and have a cinderella run?  

Was that what JR said when he first arrived, or is that the owner again directing the the team's philosophy?

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, JM_ said:

Thats kind of where I'm at. If we can't support the current core group of Demko, Miller, Bo, Petey, Hughes, Boeser with better talent to make this team competitive, then blow it up and do it properly. I just don't see the Miller trade as the one move to make it all better in 2 years. 

 

 

I don't really understand this at all. The first thing you would want to do in a rebuild is tank for players like Hughes, Petey, and Demko. We already have that. Why would you want to make your rebuild take twice as long and risk trying to acquire the exact same players in 4 years time? It literally doesn't make any sense to me. I think we can support the core and be better in 4 years but not if we rebuild. It'll just take longer and super risky as well.

[The Lock]

4 hours ago, JM_ said:

Thats kind of where I'm at. If we can't support the current core group of Demko, Miller, Bo, Petey, Hughes, Boeser with better talent to make this team competitive, then blow it up and do it properly. I just don't see the Miller trade as the one move to make it all better in 2 years. 

I have my doubts we can afford to do this at this point.

 

It's been almost a decade now since Gillis was fired and a "retool" was starting. Management has already stated that we have some good pieces and have even declared Pettersson, Demko, and Hughes untradable, of ages 23, 27, and 22 respectibly: all young. If we're going to have to go the route of a rebuild, we could be easily looking at another 5 years of missing the playoffs so then Hughes ends up the youngest at 27 and Demko ends up the oldest of the 3 at 32. It might work if they're willing to stick around, but that's a pretty big ask in my opinion.

 

Also, if we rebuild, we're not guarenteed of having a good team. We might be even worse off than now for all we know. It's easy to think a rebuild will work, but there are a lot of scenarios around the league where it hasn't.

 

I guess, perhaps on a personal note, I don't want to see this team perpetually rebuilding. I think it could easily turn us into the next Buffalo or Arizona or how Florida was before the last couple of seasons. I guess my thought would be to try with this core 1st. If it looks like it clearly won't work after a while THEN think rebuild. There's no point in just giving up before something starts afterall.

[JM_]

23 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I don't really understand this at all. The first thing you would want to do in a rebuild is tank for players like Hughes, Petey, and Demko. We already have that. Why would you want to make your rebuild take twice as long and risk trying to acquire the exact same players in 4 years time? It literally doesn't make any sense to me. I think we can support the core and be better in 4 years but not if we rebuild. It'll just take longer and super risky as well.

but who are you going to retain after 4 years? Bo is gone, Miller is gone. Petey can go to arbitration and be a UFA. Demko will be in his last year. Why would any of these guys hang around to stink for 3-4 years?

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but who are you going to retain after 4 years? Bo is gone, Miller is gone. Petey can go to arbitration and be a UFA. Demko will be in his last year. Why would any of these guys hang around to stink for 3-4 years?

We are trading them too, and starting over with a new (and better) core?   

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I have my doubts we can afford to do this at this point.

 

It's been almost a decade now since Gillis was fired and a "retool" was starting. Management has already stated that we have some good pieces and have even declared Pettersson, Demko, and Hughes untradable, of ages 23, 27, and 22 respectibly: all young. If we're going to have to go the route of a rebuild, we could be easily looking at another 5 years of missing the playoffs so then Hughes ends up the youngest at 27 and Demko ends up the oldest of the 3 at 32. It might work if they're willing to stick around, but that's a pretty big ask in my opinion.

 

Also, if we rebuild, we're not guarenteed of having a good team. We might be even worse off than now for all we know. It's easy to think a rebuild will work, but there are a lot of scenarios around the league where it hasn't.

 

I guess, perhaps on a personal note, I don't want to see this team perpetually rebuilding. I think it could easily turn us into the next Buffalo or Arizona or how Florida was before the last couple of seasons. I guess my thought would be to try with this core 1st. If it looks like it clearly won't work after a while THEN think rebuild. There's no point in just giving up before something starts afterall.

thats the thing, they won't want to stick around. Why would they? any number of contending teams would love to have Petey, e.g. The reason I'd go full tank over a 2-3 year rebuild is we're not going retain our guys anyway. So just go full Arizona in that case and just try for 1st overall for 2-3 years, don't keep any long term cap space and build quickly that way. 

 

But my feeling is we can make this a top 8 team by bulking up the F group and improving the right side d. I see that as much more achievable and less risky than trading Miller for magic beans. 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by JM_

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

We are trading them too, and starting over with a new (and better) core?   

If we're not going to support Demko, Hughes, Petey, Miller and Bo then.....

 

[The Lock]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats the thing, they won't want to stick around. Why would they? any number of contending teams would love to have Petey, e.g. The reason I'd go full tank over a 2-3 year rebuild is we're not going retain our guys anyway. So just go full Arizona in that case and just try for 1st overall for 2-3 years, don't keep any long term cap space and build quickly that way. 

 

But my feeling is we can make this a top 8 team by bulking up the F ground and improving the right side d. I see that as much more achievable and less risky than trading Miller for magic beans. 

Yeah. I think the argument could easily be made that the only reason why we're not in the playoffs is because of our start. The fact that we've been considered still in the running so long is because we've played like a playoff team since Boudreau came in. We have it in us. We just need a full season of this for that to happen and it'll be interesting to see what next year brings us.

 

People seem to think that, in order to win a cup, you need to be the best team period, and while Tampa Bay has been like this the past couple of years, I'd argue that's been more the exception rather than the rule. You just have to have a good enough team to make the playoffs, have the depth when injuries happen, have less injuries than other teams, and have a hot goalie. If all those stars align, it shouldn't matter if you're 1st overall or top 8 in your conference: you stand a good chance.

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Yeah. I think the argument could easily be made that the only reason why we're not in the playoffs is because of our start. The fact that we've been considered still in the running so long is because we've played like a playoff team since Boudreau came in. We have it in us. We just need a full season of this for that to happen and it'll be interesting to see what next year brings us.

 

People seem to think that, in order to win a cup, you need to be the best team period, and while Tampa Bay has been like this the past couple of years, I'd argue that's been more the exception rather than the rule. You just have to have a good enough team to make the playoffs, have the depth when injuries happen, have less injuries than other teams, and have a hot goalie. If all those stars align, it shouldn't matter if you're 1st overall or top 8 in your conference: you stand a good chance.

When I think of our lineup and removing Petan, Chiasson and Highmore and maybe adding in Crouse, Deslauriers and Paul I think thats the kind of thing that puts us into the top 8. Similarly on d, we need another physical RHD. Poolman is a bust, unfortunately. 

[Gawdzukes]

58 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but who are you going to retain after 4 years? Bo is gone, Miller is gone. Petey can go to arbitration and be a UFA. Demko will be in his last year. Why would any of these guys hang around to stink for 3-4 years?

Bo is not gone though. We'll retain Bo possibly depending on what that looks like, Hughes, Demko, Petterson, Pods, and anyone else good of course. I think the idea is to become better in two years time, as stated by management. But yes, we have to be in a good position building, or on the cusp or we'll have a hard time re-signing Petterson. That's why you can't go full tank. I don't think Petterson will be any more impressed though if they re-sign Miller just to miss the playoffs again either and can't bring in any help.

 

To be honest I would almost entertain a rebuild and gather assets to be super good in 6-8 years but @The Lock already touched on it. Our fanbase is super impatient (you don't even want to wait 2 years ) not to mention Petey, Hughes, and Demko, would be less than thrilled.

 

Now JM I should also acknowledge your stance on keeping Miller. It's definitely an option that I don't entertain often (I should be more open) but if management goes that route I will support them. It would be very interesting how they tackle that so I'd grab some popcorn and sit back. I do like the 3 players you mentioned the other day. Crouse, Deslauriers, and Paul. That would definitely round out the bottom 6. I don't know if we can afford that but we would also need to find some top 6 scoring and completely remake the RD. Seems like a super tough ask. Maybe I'm just to conservative.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[The Lock]

25 minutes ago, JM_ said:

When I think of our lineup and removing Petan, Chiasson and Highmore and maybe adding in Crouse, Deslauriers and Paul I think thats the kind of thing that puts us into the top 8. Similarly on d, we need another physical RHD. Poolman is a bust, unfortunately. 

I certainly don't disagree, which I guess is all the more reason to me to at least try with what we have at the end of the day.

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Bo is not gone though. We'll retain Bo possibly depending on what that looks like, Hughes, Demko, Petterson, Pods, and anyone else good of course. I think the idea is to become better in two years time, as stated by management. But yes, we have to be in a good position building, or on the cusp or we'll have a hard time re-signing Petterson. That's why you can't go full tank. I don't think Petterson will be any more impressed though if they re-sign Miller just to miss the playoffs again either and can't bring in any help.

 

To be honest I would almost entertain a rebuild and gather assets to be super good in 6-8 years but @The Lock already touched on it. Our fanbase is super impatient (you don't even want to wait 2 years ) not to mention Petey, Hughes, and Demko, would be less than thrilled.

 

Now JM I should also acknowledge your stance on keeping Miller. It's definitely an option that I don't entertain often (I should be more open) but if management goes that route I will support them. It would be very interesting how they tackle that so I'd grab some popcorn and sit back. I do like the 3 players you mentioned the other day. Crouse, Deslauriers, and Crouse. That would definitely round out the bottom 6. I don't know if we can afford that but we would also need to find some top 6 scoring and completely remake the RD. Seems like a super tough ask. Maybe I'm just to conservative.

I don't think we need to remake the right side, just add one more top 4 to it. OEL-Myers has actually been pretty good. Hughes-Schenn works. Who do we pair with Rathbone? thats the need. 

[Ballisticsports.]

41 minutes ago, JM_ said:

When I think of our lineup and removing Petan, Chiasson and Highmore and maybe adding in Crouse, Deslauriers and Paul I think thats the kind of thing that puts us into the top 8. Similarly on d, we need another physical RHD. Poolman is a bust, unfortunately. 

You gave some ideas

Even if you did that line up (at what cost) ?

Would you see us as a hard fast intimidating team?

Even if that could make you top 8

How would it be possible to get rid of the 4 you mention (at what cost)?

Add the 4 players you mention and the pay increases for who we have now? (Your plan includes keeping Miller,Boeser,Bo)?

If you do manage to do all that, how would you  see us getting to be #1 ?

We are in a rock and a hard place to get to #1 anytime soon don't you think?

 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

You gave some ideas

Even if you did that line up (at what cost) ?

Would you see us as a hard fast intimidating team?

Even if that could make you top 8

How would it be possible to get rid of the 4 you mention (at what cost)?

Add the 4 players you mention and the pay increases for who we have now? (Your plan includes keeping Miller,Boeser,Bo)?

If you do manage to do all that, how would you  see us getting to be #1 ?

We are in a rock and a hard place to get to #1 anytime soon don't you think?

 

If we added the guys l listed, I do think we'd be a lot harder to play against and push the physical play a lot more. 

 

I think the cost to dump Poolman is likely something like a future 2nd round pick. Maybe we can get a team to take Dickie on waivers. Pearson maybe get a late round pick. 

[Gawdzukes]

7 hours ago, JM_ said:

I don't think we need to remake the right side, just add one more top 4 to it. OEL-Myers has actually been pretty good. Hughes-Schenn works. Who do we pair with Rathbone? thats the need. 

agree to disagree (kind of) on that one (It's the worst I've ever seen in a long time) It's why I I want to poke my eyes out with a fork and then show the TV how to clear the puck 50 times every game. It's the whole reason we play poor 5v5 hockey, can't complete a series of passes, and toss the puck around like a hot potato in our own end for 50 minutes a game.

 

We do need to add a top 4 D. Myers is a complimentary #2 RDman. He's so immobile, add Schenn, and Hamonic/Poolman to that it's horrendous and and it makes us super easy to play against. In that sense if we replace two guys and make them quicker and higher IQ then Myers becomes a strength. But not the way it is now our RD adds nothing to the attack and gets locked in our own end. Not to mention both Schenn, and Myers are no longer in contract next year and the following year respectively. If having to replace 3 out of 3 dmen in short order doesn't require a remake I don't know what does.

 

Rathbone does seem way to small and defensively suspect given Hughes is already on that side. Remaking the right side with a great D might cover that too but you can only really hide one glaring deficiency or two at a time. I should say that Myers, Schenn, and even Poolman are all decent hockey players but you don't want more than one and not any as your #1 option at RD when the game is tight.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, JM_ said:

I don't think we need to remake the right side, just add one more top 4 to it. OEL-Myers has actually been pretty good. Hughes-Schenn works. Who do we pair with Rathbone? thats the need. 

Who's playing on that right side in 2 years when Schenn (1 more season) and Myers (2 more seasons) are gone? And realistically, as admirably as Schenn has played there. He does not belong in the regualar starting 6 on a cup contending team.

 

We're currently 2 years away from Poolman, Woo and Juulsen as our starting, right side D. Agree to disagree (vehemently) that is doesn't need remaking.

[coryberg]

Was reading the last few pages to catch up and forgot I was in a Travis Dermott thread!

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Was reading the last few pages to catch up and forgot I was in a Travis Dermott thread!

If not for the continued foolish Aquilini (imposed upon our management) philosophy of trading futures for older, stalled players in hopes to speed up the process of rebuilding/retooling, we wouldn’t have a Travis Dermott thread.