[Proposal] Boeser is the odd man out - 8 year projection!

[BigTramFan]

If PIT would do this deal, then I would be keen from VAN perspective.

 

I'm not really a fan of the other moves you propose after that deal though. However, I agree we need some grit added to the lineup!

 

Don't want to see Chiasson in our top 6. Hoglander is not really a top 6 winger yet either (might get there in a year or so). Although I like what Deslauriers brings, I think he will be a hot commodity in the off season (like Manson) and I think you will have to overpay to get him (e.g. $2.5m on a longer term contract is too much and too long for a 30 year old bottom 6 guy, even with his fighting skills).

 

I'd like to see Miller, Pettersson, Horvat, Garland, Podz in our top 6. So there's one more top 6 spot open. This could be Pearson, Hogs or Chiasson, but I think those guys are all bottom 6 ideally. And with JT, Bo and Petey in the top 6, it also means that we need a 3C...

 

Some potential targets I think fit better for age and value would be:

Nicholas Roy (3C/RW) - offer sheet RFA, $3m x 4 years, just turned 25, 6'4", 200 lbs, brings grit, can PK, 36 pts so far this season. Don't think VGK can afford to match that offer.

Sam Carrick (4C/RW) - $1.25m x 3 years, 30 year old, 6'0", 200 lbs, not afraid to fight, good on PK and right hand draws

 

To round out our top 6, I would be tempted to add a big scoring winger such as Burakovsky or Nichushkin. COL probably can't afford to resign them both. Only 27 years old.

 

Leaves us with plenty of options towards the end of next season to clear cap space and/or improve the roster, such as:

- Trade Miller (if a suitable extension can't be agreed)

- Trade Garland (especially if Hoglander progresses well as a potential top 6 guy)

- Trade Dickinson (might need to add sweetener)

- Trade Myers (will only have 1 year left)

 

Next season lineup with Dickinson in the minors:

[eeeeergh]

6 hours ago, Highstickin said:

Ok fair I agree with targeting the players that cap strapped teams can't afford to keep. Unfortunately for the canucks roster, I don't know how many players we have that those types of teams would want in a trade. 

 

If you were running Tampa and were up against the cap needing to move some talented young players what would you be asking for in return? I'm thinking probably picks, prospects, ELC players, productive vets on team friendly contracts? In terms of Van, I don't think we really have any of these available to use as trade bait. 

We do - we have Rathbone. He's going to likely provide great value for some team on an ELC for the next 3 years. 

[stanleysteamersmyl]

John Marino is OVERRATED.  77 games, 1G, 26A, 27PTS.  6'1 181 LBS    A Giant and a Superstar.

Oh, he is a R hand D.  

It would be another Cam Neely trade if the Nucks trade (coming into his prime) Boeser for him.   

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

11 hours ago, YEGCanuck said:

Looks like you've given this some serious thought and here's some feedback.

 

First, I don't know Marino however that price sounds a little like an over-pay. Second, I would love to have Miller return for 5 years at eight point five, otherwise the term is too long. 

If you don't know Marino how do you know if we are overpaying for him?  All you have to know is that he's good and everyone would love to have him on their team.

 

8 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

From Pittsburgh's perspective, I'm not sure why they do it...
- Letang (their top RHD) is a pending UFA; if they move him and take on Boeser and Poolman's money while shedding Marino, their RHD looks pretty thin
- even if they intend to let Rakell walk as UFA, if they do the same for Malkin and Letang then they might have depth issues (Sid and Carter aren't getting any younger as their #1 and #2 C, and I already addressed their RHD issue)

I get that the Pens are one of the teams that likes to shuffle things around with big moves, but adding another big ticket winger when they already have so many (Guentzel, Zucker, Rust [probably re-sign?], Kapanen [probably can be a top-6 winger?], among others) just seems a bit extra IMO.

They're gonna let Rust walk.  They have to if they want to retain Letang and Malkin.  Purely rumour-based but it seems like they'll be able to keep Malkin, 50/50 on Letang, and most likely lose Rust.

 

Poolman is trash.  He has close to no value even with retained cap.  Someone who has gained value this year is Luke Schenn.  He's been great for us.  Makes far more sense for Pittsburgh if they get a serviceable d-man back.

 

1 hour ago, stanleysteamersmyl said:

John Marino is OVERRATED.  77 games, 1G, 26A, 27PTS.  6'1 181 LBS    A Giant and a Superstar.

Oh, he is a R hand D.  

It would be another Cam Neely trade if the Nucks trade (coming into his prime) Boeser for him.   

Marino is like Tanev, but a smoother skater/passer who can definitely slot into a top pairing.  Marino... is a defensive defenceman.  What are you assessing his ability on?  His size?

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

They already have a young core.  Petey, Hughes, Demko and Podkolzin is their core.  Horvat is still relatively young and a 30 goal scorer.  Plus they have some other younger players already here or on their way in Höglander, Rathbone, Karlsson and Klimovich.  They also have good support players in Garland, Lammikko and Highmore.  

 

They already have a superstar in Petey.  There is no denying it now as his numbers the last 35 games are on par with the top 5 players in the league.

 

As for Miller, you don't win a Stanley Cup with a bunch of 25 year old players.  Every Stanley Cup champion has had veteran players and leadership.  Miller at 31 or even 32 isn't that old.  The Sedins were almost 31 when they went to the finals.  Luongo was also 31.

 

JR said he wanted to be a contender in 2 years.  That puts Miller at 31/32.  Almost the same as Luongo and the Sedins.  There is no mention of tearing this thing down other than from some media pundits.  Until I hear the words coming from JR's mouth I will not believe that we are tearing this whole thing down.

The ONLY young team i could find that had the next level of guys coming up carrying a lot of mail, was CHI first and second cup.   And even that team had key core players like Hossa, goalies etc in the same age range you mentioned.    LA a little too I suppose.   Not CAR other then Staal, definitely not ANA that was probably the oldest core (since the cap - but CAR maybe too) to win a cup Getzlaf/Perry/Penner had their coming out party ... but it that team was loaded with 30 year old plus vets that carried the mail ... Most teams that win end up with a star or two that becomes part of the next core (Boston had Marchand and Seguin) like Getzlaf and Perry did, CAR Ward and Staal etc.     St. Louis was a veteran team and still is.   PIT last two cups of course ... first one i suppose you could say fit into the CHI theme too but we're all actually a little older ... WSH, Ovi and Backstrom well into their second core.    It's not like the 2002 Detroit team, who's team average age was like 33-34 these days, but i seriously can't find a team that didn't have a Miller type on it that won a cup.   As in an aging vet in his prime north of 30.     We can keep Miller, Horvat and EP.   The Sedin teams had holes in it too albiet not many - our depth scoring was an issue ... if Kesler went down.    Ouch. 

 

Edit;  On EP.   He could be the on the cusp of greatness.   All we need to see from him next is an entire 78-82 season producing at his current pace since January ... took a little time to get traction too...47 goals and maybe his first 100 point season is coming next year. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by IBatch

[stanleysteamersmyl]

7 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

If you don't know Marino how do you know if we are overpaying for him?  All you have to know is that he's good and everyone would love to have him on their team.

 

They're gonna let Rust walk.  They have to if they want to retain Letang and Malkin.  Purely rumour-based but it seems like they'll be able to keep Malkin, 50/50 on Letang, and most likely lose Rust.

 

Poolman is trash.  He has close to no value even with retained cap.  Someone who has gained value this year is Luke Schenn.  He's been great for us.  Makes far more sense for Pittsburgh if they get a serviceable d-man back.

 

Marino is like Tanev, but a smoother skater/passer who can definitely slot into a top pairing.  Marino... is a defensive defenceman.  What are you assessing his ability on?  His size?

A 180 lbs D man who has a zero +/- 0.  Low scoring.  But, a real tough guy who will protect Quinn.  We need a Willie Michell, Josh Manson, Brandon Dillion, Gudas type D man.  We have to many soft players like Poolman, Dermott and Meyers.  Too bad Sheen wasn't 22 years old.

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, stanleysteamersmyl said:

A 180 lbs D man who has a zero +/- 0.  Low scoring.  But, a real tough guy who will protect Quinn.  We need a Willie Michell, Josh Manson, Brandon Dillion, Gudas type D man.  We have to many soft players like Poolman, Dermott and Meyers.  Too bad Sheen wasn't 22 years old.

Bingo.  Manson is a great target for us.   And agree, if we had a Willie Mitchell type paired with Hughes - it would be one of the best in the league. 

 

Edit: Know it's not so simple as a video game (last and only Hockey one i played, in my early 20's was NHL 93/94 or something like that...table hockey was more my thing) ....  but if we could trade Brock or Garland for something decent later, save the cap and use it for Manson ... (and keep Myers) ... i'd like our chances very much over the next 3-4 years. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by IBatch

[Highstickin]

10 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

We do - we have Rathbone. He's going to likely provide great value for some team on an ELC for the next 3 years. 

I was assuming we were bringing Rathbone into the lineup on the third pair when we move on from hunt. That would leave Hughes, OEL and Rathbone on the left for next season.

[Wanless]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:44 AM, JM_ said:

If we can get Marino, I think we can trade Myers and use that cap to upgrade that F group. Chiasson in the top 6 makes me sad. 

Honestly chiasson in the top six is the only place he has looked great

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

2 hours ago, stanleysteamersmyl said:

A 180 lbs D man who has a zero +/- 0.  Low scoring.  But, a real tough guy who will protect Quinn.  We need a Willie Michell, Josh Manson, Brandon Dillion, Gudas type D man.  We have to many soft players like Poolman, Dermott and Meyers.  Too bad Sheen wasn't 22 years old.

Again, you are making this assessment of the guy based on... his weight and his statistics.  And then you suggested a bunch of guys who have poor stats... but good "intangibles".  You've never even heard of the guy and have ZERO idea of what he plays like.

 

Marino...  is a very good defensive defenseman who can still move the puck very well.  He is like a young Dan Hamhuis.  He's paired with Pettersson right now and they are doing a great job against top lines.  He is very strong on the puck and knows how to use the body when off the puck.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[eeeeergh]

3 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Again, you are making this assessment of the guy based on... his weight and his statistics.  And then you suggested a bunch of guys who have poor stats... but good "intangibles".  You've never even heard of the guy and have ZERO idea of what he plays like.

 

Marino...  is a very good defensive defenseman who can still move the puck very well.  He is like a young Dan Hamhuis.  He's paired with Pettersson right now and they are doing a great job against top lines.  He is very strong on the puck and knows how to use the body when off the puck.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Marino is 100% exactly what we need, if we can get him. Honestly have no clue why pittsburgh would want to part with him though, especially on such a (relatively) cheap contract for what he is, and what he will be in the coming years.

Hughes-Marino would be an insane 1st pairing. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Marino is 100% exactly what we need, if we can get him. Honestly have no clue why pittsburgh would want to part with him though, especially on such a (relatively) cheap contract for what he is, and what he will be in the coming years.

Hughes-Marino would be an insane 1st pairing. 

I can see a trade where we move Boeser and Bone for Marino and RFA rights to Kapanen.  

[stanleysteamersmyl]

4 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Again, you are making this assessment of the guy based on... his weight and his statistics.  And then you suggested a bunch of guys who have poor stats... but good "intangibles".  You've never even heard of the guy and have ZERO idea of what he plays like.

 

Marino...  is a very good defensive defenseman who can still move the puck very well.  He is like a young Dan Hamhuis.  He's paired with Pettersson right now and they are doing a great job against top lines.  He is very strong on the puck and knows how to use the body when off the puck.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Over rated 5th round draft pick, underweight D man.  How many teams has two 180 lb D men on the top pairing? 

Hughes need a young Luke Schenn playing beside him.  Big D man  like Dobson or Mayfield  from the Islanders.

 

 

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, stanleysteamersmyl said:

Over rated 5th round draft pick, underweight D man.  How many teams has two 180 lb D men on the top pairing? 

Hughes need a young Luke Schenn playing beside him.  Big D man  like Dobson or Mayfield  from the Islanders.

 

 

I would see Marino as pairing with OEL next season. And Schenn remains paired with Hughes until there is an upgrade on him available.

 

Move Myers to create cap space. Mayfield is UFA at end of next season...

Edited April 24, 2022 by BigTramFan

[stanleysteamersmyl]

Adding Marino is adding more softness into the defense.  They will get destroyed in a playoff series vs the Flames or Wild.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

5 hours ago, stanleysteamersmyl said:

Adding Marino is adding more softness into the defense.  They will get destroyed in a playoff series vs the Flames or Wild.

Like, how many people is it going to take for you to get this?  He is not a soft player at all.  He is one of the most effective young two-way defenceman out there right now.  Not a single person who has watched him play would call him soft.

 

Again.  Why don't you actually watch him play before making silly assessments?

[stanleysteamersmyl]

7 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Like, how many people is it going to take for you to get this?  He is not a soft player at all.  He is one of the most effective young two-way defenceman out there right now.  Not a single person who has watched him play would call him soft.

 

Again.  Why don't you actually watch him play before making silly assessments?

John Marino wound not be a good fit in Canuckville, he folds under pressure.  See this example.

 

https://www.nhl.com/penguins/video/bold-penguin-challenge/t-277437428/c-9982021