[Proposal] Vancouver - Florida

[Provost]

Florida needs to shed about $10 million in cap.  When JR talks about teams needing to get rid of players due to cap concerns and wanting our team to have cap space to get into "that game", Florida is kind of the poster child of who he is talking about.

They have very useful pieces that can be had for pennies on the dollar.  Barkov, Huberdeau, Brobovski and Ekblad have NMCs and aren't likely to agree to leave a good team in Florida to a place they would pay double the taxes.

That leaves pieces like: Reinhart, Bennett, Hornqvist, Duclair.  With Lundell coming onto the scene they can send out one of their more expensive centres.

Some trade options for us could be like:

Reinhart
Hornqvist
for
Rathbone
Poolman


or
Bennett plus a 2nd for Rathbone or Dipietro

Reinhart would be a crazy good pick up I think, likely lots of competition for him, but who knows how many teams are going to want to take on cap for a guy who has had just one career year his year and otherwise pretty mediocre.  I suspect if you don't want to pay a ton, you have to take on a Hornqvist cap dump (just one year left) so solve Florida's cap problems in one fell swoop.  He would be a lower end Miller on the top line as another natural centre (Right shot)) who can take some of the responsibilities and face offs for Petterson.  JR made some comments that make me think they aren't convinced Petterson is really a centre (he was LW in Sweden)... so insulating him a little is reasonable.

Bennett is a bigger gamble, he had a great season but so did the entire Florida roster.  He could easily from from 28 goals and 49 points right back down to his normal terrible production. He could easily go back to being overpaid pretty quickly.  On the other hand, an effectively free 3C who can pot in 28 goals, play defensive hockey, and chuck the mitts as a decent middleweight if needed.  Lots of upside for the trade balanced by quite a bit of risk.

Assuming we do a Miller  trade to facilitate having that extra cap space and find a young RHD, our roster could be something like (this fits under the cap and leaves us more cap space after next season to do more tinkering with Hornqvist off the books)

Podkolzin-Petterson-Reinhart
Garland-Horvat-Boeser
Hoglander-Dickenson-Hornqvist
Highmore-Lammikko-Lockwood

Hughes - Carlo (or whatever young RHD we find)
OEL-Myers
Dermott-Schenn
Burroughs
 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Provost

[Alflives]

I like the idea of Florida as a trade partner.  Imhao Rhino is a cap dump.  

So I propose we trade them Miller + Poolman for Lundell + Reinhart + Bennet.  

Then we trade Myers and Garland to clear cap.  

[Provost]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I like the idea of Florida as a trade partner.  Imhao Rhino is a cap dump.  

So I propose we trade them Miller + Poolman for Lundell + Reinhart + Bennet.  

Then we trade Myers and Garland to clear cap.  

People would take you more seriously if you dropped the silly schtick like calling a guy who scored 33 goals and 82 points last year on a greater than PPG pace, a "cap dump". 

He is 26 and signed to a reasonable $6.5 million cap hit for two more years.  Even if you factor in a (likely) drop in production when he isn't playing beside Barkov... on a Petterson or Horvat line he is probably going to be in at least the 60-70 point range which is full value for his contract.

"Cap Dumps" are players that if you put on waivers wouldn't be claimed.  Probably 25 teams put in a claim on Reinhart if he gets waived, the ones that don't are capped out or budget teams without the dollars to spend.

[eeeeergh]

45 minutes ago, Provost said:

Florida needs to shed about $10 million in cap.  When JR talks about teams needing to get rid of players due to cap concerns and wanting our team to have cap space to get into "that game", Florida is kind of the poster child of who he is talking about.

They have very useful pieces that can be had for pennies on the dollar.  Barkov, Huberdeau, Brobovski and Ekblad have NMCs and aren't likely to agree to leave a good team in Florida to a place they would pay double the taxes.

That leaves pieces like: Reinhart, Bennett, Hornqvist, Duclair.  With Lundell coming onto the scene they can send out one of their more expensive centres.

Some trade options for us could be like:

Reinhart
Hornqvist
for
Rathbone
Poolman


or
Bennett plus a 2nd for Rathbone or Dipietro

Reinhart would be a crazy good pick up I think, likely lots of competition for him, but who knows how many teams are going to want to take on cap for a guy who has had just one career year his year and otherwise pretty mediocre.  I suspect if you don't want to pay a ton, you have to take on a Hornqvist cap dump (just one year left) so solve Florida's cap problems in one fell swoop.  He would be a lower end Miller on the top line as another natural centre (Right shot)) who can take some of the responsibilities and face offs for Petterson.  JR made some comments that make me think they aren't convinced Petterson is really a centre (he was LW in Sweden)... so insulating him a little is reasonable.

Bennett is a bigger gamble, he had a great season but so did the entire Florida roster.  He could easily from from 28 goals and 49 points right back down to his normal terrible production. He could easily go back to being overpaid pretty quickly.  On the other hand, an effectively free 3C who can pot in 28 goals, play defensive hockey, and chuck the mitts as a decent middleweight if needed.  Lots of upside for the trade balanced by quite a bit of risk.

Assuming we do a Miller  trade to facilitate having that extra cap space and find a young RHD, our roster could be something like (this fits under the cap and leaves us more cap space after next season to do more tinkering with Hornqvist off the books)

Podkolzin-Petterson-Reinhart
Garland-Horvat-Boeser
Hoglander-Dickenson-Hornqvist
Highmore-Lammikko-Lockwood

Hughes - Carlo (or whatever young RHD we find)
OEL-Myers
Dermott-Schenn
Burroughs
 

 

I'm curious why Reinhart is valued so low in your idea? He's basically scored at a 30 goal pace for the past 3 years, more than worthy of his contract. 

Hornqvist for sure is a cap dump.

If we want Reinhart, we probably have to give 2x 1st round equivalent assets to get him. Taking on Hornqvists salary probably gets us a 2nd. So it probably ends up looking something like this:

To FLA:
Van 2022 1st
Rathbone

To Van:
Reinhart
Hornqvist
FLA 2022 2nd
 

Edited May 21, 2022 by eeeeergh

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I'm curious why Reinhart is valued so low in your idea? He's basically scored at a 30 goal pace for the past 3 years, more than worthy of his contract. 

Hornqvist for sure is a cap dump.

If we want Reinhart, we probably have to give 2x 1st round equivalent assets to get him. Taking on Hornqvists salary probably gets us a 2nd. So it probably ends up looking something like this:

To FLA:
Van 2022 1st
Rathbone

To Van:
Reinhart
Hornqvist
FLA 2022 2nd
 

His point total have been at a 0.7 pace with total of 65, 50, 40, 82 with just this last year being an outlier.  His goals have been 22, 22, 25, 33... so saying it is a 30 goal pace is giving lots of credit.  Barkov is sneakily one of the best players in the league... getting a goal bump playing with 

I value him similarly to Boeser/Garland actually, though Boeser produces more consistently at a 0.8-0.9 pace.  Garland is a better 5v5 producer and produces almost as much with no padding of his stats on the PP.

Taking on a 4th line cap dump from a team that is going to be in desperate straights is a lot of value.  Hornqvist holds a partial NTC clause and would likely block a move to the true basement dwellers and that handcuffs Florida quite a bit.  Our brass know him pretty well from his time in Pittsburgh.  Florida has really limited options to move enough money out

If I didn't value him pretty decently, I wouldn't be wanting him on our team and taking on a big cap dump to get him.

[eeeeergh]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

His point total have been at a 0.7 pace with total of 65, 50, 40, 82 with just this last year being an outlier.  His goals have been 22, 22, 25, 33... so saying it is a 30 goal pace is giving lots of credit.  Barkov is sneakily one of the best players in the league... getting a goal bump playing with 

I value him similarly to Boeser/Garland actually, though Boeser produces more consistently at a 0.8-0.9 pace.  Garland is a better 5v5 producer and produces almost as much with no padding of his stats on the PP.

Taking on a 4th line cap dump from a team that is going to be in desperate straights is a lot of value.  Hornqvist holds a partial NTC clause and would likely block a move to the true basement dwellers and that handcuffs Florida quite a bit.  Our brass know him pretty well from his time in Pittsburgh.  Florida has really limited options to move enough money out

If I didn't value him pretty decently, I wouldn't be wanting him on our team and taking on a big cap dump to get him.

Hmm I think we then do see his real value pretty similarly- I consider him fairly similar to Boeser, with the difference being he's coming off a career year points-wise which inflates his value a fair bit. 2019-2020 he played 69 games, 2020-2021 he played 54 games, so you're right, his goal pace was under 30 in 2019-2020 (26) but his goal pace in 2020-2021 was 38. His goal pace this year is around 35. 

Honestly based on that, I think most would look at his 6.5m/year contract as at least 1m discount, which inflates his value even more. 

Reason why I don't think Hornqvist gets us more than a 2nd if we were to take his salary, is its only on the books for 1 year, and he is still a serviceable nhl player (heck he even plays on pp2 in Florida, and produced around 0.5 ppg). 

My valuation might be a bit off, but honestly don't think we get him without giving up at least 1.5 - 2 1st round equivalent assets in return. Would be incredible to have him on this team, considering his age, and that he's just entering his prime. 

[Alflives]

43 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I'm curious why Reinhart is valued so low in your idea? He's basically scored at a 30 goal pace for the past 3 years, more than worthy of his contract. 

Hornqvist for sure is a cap dump.

If we want Reinhart, we probably have to give 2x 1st round equivalent assets to get him. Taking on Hornqvists salary probably gets us a 2nd. So it probably ends up looking something like this:

To FLA:
Van 2022 1st
Rathbone

To Van:
Reinhart
Hornqvist
FLA 2022 2nd
 

Rhino is a cap dumperoo.  

Here is a fair trade.

Miller + Poolman for Lundell + Bennet + (cap dump) Rhino. 

Equal for both teams. 

Go get ‘em JR!

[Nucker 67]

My guess is Florida will want high picks and Grade A prospects in return on trades. I don't think Rathbone is nearly enough, and DiPietro has almost no value. The Panthers have Spencer Knight. There are other teams who will also want Bennett and Reinhart and have more to offer.  Rathbone is also the only NHL-level Dman prospect the Canucks have. Trading Jack could be bad. 

 

Maybe if:

 

Miller, Hoglander and Bowey = approx $9

Reinhart, Duclair and Gudas = $12

 

FLA frees up a bit a cap and gets a 99 pt C in his prime, with playoff passion.  VAN gets a solid #2C and better D partner for OEL. (IMO)

 

Pettersson

Reinhart

Horvat

 

OEL - Gudas

Hughes - Schenn

Dermott - Myers

Rathbone

 

 

[King Heffy]

Reinhart and Bo also showed some really good chemistry when they played together for Team Canada.

[wildcam]

35 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

My guess is Florida will want high picks and Grade A prospects in return on trades. I don't think Rathbone is nearly enough, and DiPietro has almost no value. The Panthers have Spencer Knight. There are other teams who will also want Bennett and Reinhart and have more to offer.  Rathbone is also the only NHL-level Dman prospect the Canucks have. Trading Jack could be bad. 

 

Maybe if:

 

Miller, Hoglander and Bowey = approx $9

Reinhart, Duclair and Gudas = $12

 

FLA frees up a bit a cap and gets a 99 pt C in his prime, with playoff passion.  VAN gets a solid #2C and better D partner for OEL. (IMO)

 

Pettersson

Reinhart

Horvat

 

OEL - Gudas

Hughes - Schenn

Dermott - Myers

Rathbone

 

 

I would like Canucks to make a deal for Kapanen 26, 6'1 had a poor season..He is RFA this summer 3.2 million qualifying offer? Would be good if you good have his salary like 3 yrs X 3.5 million lots of upside..I can see new GM Allvin pursuing kapanen, lots of speed and he should  be a 20--25 G guy - 48--55 points..

[Kelly Green]

I like Radko Gudas if he's available, good PK and he hits hard.

[BigTramFan]

I don't see Florida and VAN as trade partners. Both teams want to clear some cap this off season. The main pieces that FLA want to move are guys like Hornqvist, not guys like Reinhart and Bennett. VAN doesn't have the cap space to be taking on those type of deals, even if they come with a sweetener (and the sweetener is NOT going to be a potential high end talent like Lundell either).

[Dabeast]

As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Dabeast

[Alflives]

33 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

I don't see Florida and VAN as trade partners. Both teams want to clear some cap this off season. The main pieces that FLA want to move are guys like Hornqvist, not guys like Reinhart and Bennett. VAN doesn't have the cap space to be taking on those type of deals, even if they come with a sweetener (and the sweetener is NOT going to be a potential high end talent like Lundell either).

 

1 minute ago, Dabeast said:

As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. 

Florida would be ecstatic to dump Rihnhart.  He’s a cap dump for sure.

Miller + Poolman (our cap dump) for Lundell + Reinhart (Florida’s cap dump)

I think JR is too smart to take on the Reinhart cap dump though.  

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, Dabeast said:

As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. 

So what is the plan to ditch as much cap S they need to in order to get under the cap?

Find $10 million in that roster to trim without giving up something significant.

 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Dabeast said:

As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. 

You guys are getting worked (kind of embarrassed) by Tampa.  How many years in a row is that?  

Your top minute forwards look soft.  Miller is exactly what your team needs.  Or another 99 point, heavy, skilled, mean, hard to play against, centre/winger on a fabulous cap hit.  

[nameci]

Florida hears your proposal, laughs hysterically and hangs up!

[Dabeast]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

So what is the plan to ditch as much cap S they need to in order to get under the cap?

Find $10 million in that roster to trim without giving up something significant.

 

Curious where you're getting that $10M number from? According to CapFriendly they have ~4M in available space next season with no significant raises to hand out as far as RFAs go. They do need to clear up a bit of money for sure, but Hornqvist alone should do it, and frankly even if he couldnt, Reinhart wouldn't be the guy who's next on the chopping block.

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

You guys are getting worked (kind of embarrassed) by Tampa.  How many years in a row is that?  

Your top minute forwards look soft.  Miller is exactly what your team needs.  Or another 99 point, heavy, skilled, mean, hard to play against, centre/winger on a fabulous cap hit.  

Many people are saying this

[eeeeergh]

17 minutes ago, Dabeast said:

Curious where you're getting that $10M number from? According to CapFriendly they have ~4M in available space next season with no significant raises to hand out as far as RFAs go. They do need to clear up a bit of money for sure, but Hornqvist alone should do it, and frankly even if he couldnt, Reinhart wouldn't be the guy who's next on the chopping block.

Many people are saying this

Am I right that Reinhart is probably valued around 2x 1st round picks or equivalent assets?

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Provost said:

So what is the plan to ditch as much cap S they need to in order to get under the cap?

Find $10 million in that roster to trim without giving up something significant.

 

Vancouver also has a pretty decent trade history with the Panthers.   Luongo twice ... OJ last year etc.   They for sure are a good target and feel Hornqvist would cost them something nice because well he's the odd man out.   Bennet is a good target for us - an upgrade on Dickie that's for sure.    He's also a bit of a risk - for both Florida and our team.    Can't ever have too many C's ... and with a Miller trade at least 50/50 this would help too.   Rhino would be nice of course but his contract length is worrisome.    What would Miller to Florida look like?