Provost Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) Florida needs to shed about $10 million in cap. When JR talks about teams needing to get rid of players due to cap concerns and wanting our team to have cap space to get into "that game", Florida is kind of the poster child of who he is talking about. They have very useful pieces that can be had for pennies on the dollar. Barkov, Huberdeau, Brobovski and Ekblad have NMCs and aren't likely to agree to leave a good team in Florida to a place they would pay double the taxes. That leaves pieces like: Reinhart, Bennett, Hornqvist, Duclair. With Lundell coming onto the scene they can send out one of their more expensive centres. Some trade options for us could be like: Reinhart Hornqvist for Rathbone Poolman or Bennett plus a 2nd for Rathbone or Dipietro Reinhart would be a crazy good pick up I think, likely lots of competition for him, but who knows how many teams are going to want to take on cap for a guy who has had just one career year his year and otherwise pretty mediocre. I suspect if you don't want to pay a ton, you have to take on a Hornqvist cap dump (just one year left) so solve Florida's cap problems in one fell swoop. He would be a lower end Miller on the top line as another natural centre (Right shot)) who can take some of the responsibilities and face offs for Petterson. JR made some comments that make me think they aren't convinced Petterson is really a centre (he was LW in Sweden)... so insulating him a little is reasonable. Bennett is a bigger gamble, he had a great season but so did the entire Florida roster. He could easily from from 28 goals and 49 points right back down to his normal terrible production. He could easily go back to being overpaid pretty quickly. On the other hand, an effectively free 3C who can pot in 28 goals, play defensive hockey, and chuck the mitts as a decent middleweight if needed. Lots of upside for the trade balanced by quite a bit of risk. Assuming we do a Miller trade to facilitate having that extra cap space and find a young RHD, our roster could be something like (this fits under the cap and leaves us more cap space after next season to do more tinkering with Hornqvist off the books) Podkolzin-Petterson-Reinhart Garland-Horvat-Boeser Hoglander-Dickenson-Hornqvist Highmore-Lammikko-Lockwood Hughes - Carlo (or whatever young RHD we find) OEL-Myers Dermott-Schenn Burroughs Edited May 21, 2022 by Provost 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 I like the idea of Florida as a trade partner. Imhao Rhino is a cap dump. So I propose we trade them Miller + Poolman for Lundell + Reinhart + Bennet. Then we trade Myers and Garland to clear cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, Alflives said: I like the idea of Florida as a trade partner. Imhao Rhino is a cap dump. So I propose we trade them Miller + Poolman for Lundell + Reinhart + Bennet. Then we trade Myers and Garland to clear cap. People would take you more seriously if you dropped the silly schtick like calling a guy who scored 33 goals and 82 points last year on a greater than PPG pace, a "cap dump". He is 26 and signed to a reasonable $6.5 million cap hit for two more years. Even if you factor in a (likely) drop in production when he isn't playing beside Barkov... on a Petterson or Horvat line he is probably going to be in at least the 60-70 point range which is full value for his contract. "Cap Dumps" are players that if you put on waivers wouldn't be claimed. Probably 25 teams put in a claim on Reinhart if he gets waived, the ones that don't are capped out or budget teams without the dollars to spend. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Provost said: Florida needs to shed about $10 million in cap. When JR talks about teams needing to get rid of players due to cap concerns and wanting our team to have cap space to get into "that game", Florida is kind of the poster child of who he is talking about. They have very useful pieces that can be had for pennies on the dollar. Barkov, Huberdeau, Brobovski and Ekblad have NMCs and aren't likely to agree to leave a good team in Florida to a place they would pay double the taxes. That leaves pieces like: Reinhart, Bennett, Hornqvist, Duclair. With Lundell coming onto the scene they can send out one of their more expensive centres. Some trade options for us could be like: Reinhart Hornqvist for Rathbone Poolman or Bennett plus a 2nd for Rathbone or Dipietro Reinhart would be a crazy good pick up I think, likely lots of competition for him, but who knows how many teams are going to want to take on cap for a guy who has had just one career year his year and otherwise pretty mediocre. I suspect if you don't want to pay a ton, you have to take on a Hornqvist cap dump (just one year left) so solve Florida's cap problems in one fell swoop. He would be a lower end Miller on the top line as another natural centre (Right shot)) who can take some of the responsibilities and face offs for Petterson. JR made some comments that make me think they aren't convinced Petterson is really a centre (he was LW in Sweden)... so insulating him a little is reasonable. Bennett is a bigger gamble, he had a great season but so did the entire Florida roster. He could easily from from 28 goals and 49 points right back down to his normal terrible production. He could easily go back to being overpaid pretty quickly. On the other hand, an effectively free 3C who can pot in 28 goals, play defensive hockey, and chuck the mitts as a decent middleweight if needed. Lots of upside for the trade balanced by quite a bit of risk. Assuming we do a Miller trade to facilitate having that extra cap space and find a young RHD, our roster could be something like (this fits under the cap and leaves us more cap space after next season to do more tinkering with Hornqvist off the books) Podkolzin-Petterson-Reinhart Garland-Horvat-Boeser Hoglander-Dickenson-Hornqvist Highmore-Lammikko-Lockwood Hughes - Carlo (or whatever young RHD we find) OEL-Myers Dermott-Schenn Burroughs I'm curious why Reinhart is valued so low in your idea? He's basically scored at a 30 goal pace for the past 3 years, more than worthy of his contract. Hornqvist for sure is a cap dump. If we want Reinhart, we probably have to give 2x 1st round equivalent assets to get him. Taking on Hornqvists salary probably gets us a 2nd. So it probably ends up looking something like this: To FLA: Van 2022 1st Rathbone To Van: Reinhart Hornqvist FLA 2022 2nd Edited May 21, 2022 by eeeeergh 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: I'm curious why Reinhart is valued so low in your idea? He's basically scored at a 30 goal pace for the past 3 years, more than worthy of his contract. Hornqvist for sure is a cap dump. If we want Reinhart, we probably have to give 2x 1st round equivalent assets to get him. Taking on Hornqvists salary probably gets us a 2nd. So it probably ends up looking something like this: To FLA: Van 2022 1st Rathbone To Van: Reinhart Hornqvist FLA 2022 2nd His point total have been at a 0.7 pace with total of 65, 50, 40, 82 with just this last year being an outlier. His goals have been 22, 22, 25, 33... so saying it is a 30 goal pace is giving lots of credit. Barkov is sneakily one of the best players in the league... getting a goal bump playing with I value him similarly to Boeser/Garland actually, though Boeser produces more consistently at a 0.8-0.9 pace. Garland is a better 5v5 producer and produces almost as much with no padding of his stats on the PP. Taking on a 4th line cap dump from a team that is going to be in desperate straights is a lot of value. Hornqvist holds a partial NTC clause and would likely block a move to the true basement dwellers and that handcuffs Florida quite a bit. Our brass know him pretty well from his time in Pittsburgh. Florida has really limited options to move enough money out If I didn't value him pretty decently, I wouldn't be wanting him on our team and taking on a big cap dump to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Provost said: His point total have been at a 0.7 pace with total of 65, 50, 40, 82 with just this last year being an outlier. His goals have been 22, 22, 25, 33... so saying it is a 30 goal pace is giving lots of credit. Barkov is sneakily one of the best players in the league... getting a goal bump playing with I value him similarly to Boeser/Garland actually, though Boeser produces more consistently at a 0.8-0.9 pace. Garland is a better 5v5 producer and produces almost as much with no padding of his stats on the PP. Taking on a 4th line cap dump from a team that is going to be in desperate straights is a lot of value. Hornqvist holds a partial NTC clause and would likely block a move to the true basement dwellers and that handcuffs Florida quite a bit. Our brass know him pretty well from his time in Pittsburgh. Florida has really limited options to move enough money out If I didn't value him pretty decently, I wouldn't be wanting him on our team and taking on a big cap dump to get him. Hmm I think we then do see his real value pretty similarly- I consider him fairly similar to Boeser, with the difference being he's coming off a career year points-wise which inflates his value a fair bit. 2019-2020 he played 69 games, 2020-2021 he played 54 games, so you're right, his goal pace was under 30 in 2019-2020 (26) but his goal pace in 2020-2021 was 38. His goal pace this year is around 35. Honestly based on that, I think most would look at his 6.5m/year contract as at least 1m discount, which inflates his value even more. Reason why I don't think Hornqvist gets us more than a 2nd if we were to take his salary, is its only on the books for 1 year, and he is still a serviceable nhl player (heck he even plays on pp2 in Florida, and produced around 0.5 ppg). My valuation might be a bit off, but honestly don't think we get him without giving up at least 1.5 - 2 1st round equivalent assets in return. Would be incredible to have him on this team, considering his age, and that he's just entering his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 43 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: I'm curious why Reinhart is valued so low in your idea? He's basically scored at a 30 goal pace for the past 3 years, more than worthy of his contract. Hornqvist for sure is a cap dump. If we want Reinhart, we probably have to give 2x 1st round equivalent assets to get him. Taking on Hornqvists salary probably gets us a 2nd. So it probably ends up looking something like this: To FLA: Van 2022 1st Rathbone To Van: Reinhart Hornqvist FLA 2022 2nd Rhino is a cap dumperoo. Here is a fair trade. Miller + Poolman for Lundell + Bennet + (cap dump) Rhino. Equal for both teams. Go get ‘em JR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 My guess is Florida will want high picks and Grade A prospects in return on trades. I don't think Rathbone is nearly enough, and DiPietro has almost no value. The Panthers have Spencer Knight. There are other teams who will also want Bennett and Reinhart and have more to offer. Rathbone is also the only NHL-level Dman prospect the Canucks have. Trading Jack could be bad. Maybe if: Miller, Hoglander and Bowey = approx $9 Reinhart, Duclair and Gudas = $12 FLA frees up a bit a cap and gets a 99 pt C in his prime, with playoff passion. VAN gets a solid #2C and better D partner for OEL. (IMO) Pettersson Reinhart Horvat OEL - Gudas Hughes - Schenn Dermott - Myers Rathbone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 Reinhart and Bo also showed some really good chemistry when they played together for Team Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 35 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: My guess is Florida will want high picks and Grade A prospects in return on trades. I don't think Rathbone is nearly enough, and DiPietro has almost no value. The Panthers have Spencer Knight. There are other teams who will also want Bennett and Reinhart and have more to offer. Rathbone is also the only NHL-level Dman prospect the Canucks have. Trading Jack could be bad. Maybe if: Miller, Hoglander and Bowey = approx $9 Reinhart, Duclair and Gudas = $12 FLA frees up a bit a cap and gets a 99 pt C in his prime, with playoff passion. VAN gets a solid #2C and better D partner for OEL. (IMO) Pettersson Reinhart Horvat OEL - Gudas Hughes - Schenn Dermott - Myers Rathbone I would like Canucks to make a deal for Kapanen 26, 6'1 had a poor season..He is RFA this summer 3.2 million qualifying offer? Would be good if you good have his salary like 3 yrs X 3.5 million lots of upside..I can see new GM Allvin pursuing kapanen, lots of speed and he should be a 20--25 G guy - 48--55 points.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Green Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 I like Radko Gudas if he's available, good PK and he hits hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 I don't see Florida and VAN as trade partners. Both teams want to clear some cap this off season. The main pieces that FLA want to move are guys like Hornqvist, not guys like Reinhart and Bennett. VAN doesn't have the cap space to be taking on those type of deals, even if they come with a sweetener (and the sweetener is NOT going to be a potential high end talent like Lundell either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dabeast Posted May 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2022 (edited) As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. Edited May 22, 2022 by Dabeast 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 33 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: I don't see Florida and VAN as trade partners. Both teams want to clear some cap this off season. The main pieces that FLA want to move are guys like Hornqvist, not guys like Reinhart and Bennett. VAN doesn't have the cap space to be taking on those type of deals, even if they come with a sweetener (and the sweetener is NOT going to be a potential high end talent like Lundell either). 1 minute ago, Dabeast said: As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. Florida would be ecstatic to dump Rihnhart. He’s a cap dump for sure. Miller + Poolman (our cap dump) for Lundell + Reinhart (Florida’s cap dump) I think JR is too smart to take on the Reinhart cap dump though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dabeast said: As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. So what is the plan to ditch as much cap S they need to in order to get under the cap? Find $10 million in that roster to trim without giving up something significant. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, Dabeast said: As probably the only Panthers fan with a cdc account I'm here to tell you no. Reinhart is not moving. You guys are getting worked (kind of embarrassed) by Tampa. How many years in a row is that? Your top minute forwards look soft. Miller is exactly what your team needs. Or another 99 point, heavy, skilled, mean, hard to play against, centre/winger on a fabulous cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nameci Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 Florida hears your proposal, laughs hysterically and hangs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabeast Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Provost said: So what is the plan to ditch as much cap S they need to in order to get under the cap? Find $10 million in that roster to trim without giving up something significant. Curious where you're getting that $10M number from? According to CapFriendly they have ~4M in available space next season with no significant raises to hand out as far as RFAs go. They do need to clear up a bit of money for sure, but Hornqvist alone should do it, and frankly even if he couldnt, Reinhart wouldn't be the guy who's next on the chopping block. 3 hours ago, Alflives said: You guys are getting worked (kind of embarrassed) by Tampa. How many years in a row is that? Your top minute forwards look soft. Miller is exactly what your team needs. Or another 99 point, heavy, skilled, mean, hard to play against, centre/winger on a fabulous cap hit. Many people are saying this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Dabeast said: Curious where you're getting that $10M number from? According to CapFriendly they have ~4M in available space next season with no significant raises to hand out as far as RFAs go. They do need to clear up a bit of money for sure, but Hornqvist alone should do it, and frankly even if he couldnt, Reinhart wouldn't be the guy who's next on the chopping block. Many people are saying this Am I right that Reinhart is probably valued around 2x 1st round picks or equivalent assets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 10 hours ago, Provost said: So what is the plan to ditch as much cap S they need to in order to get under the cap? Find $10 million in that roster to trim without giving up something significant. Vancouver also has a pretty decent trade history with the Panthers. Luongo twice ... OJ last year etc. They for sure are a good target and feel Hornqvist would cost them something nice because well he's the odd man out. Bennet is a good target for us - an upgrade on Dickie that's for sure. He's also a bit of a risk - for both Florida and our team. Can't ever have too many C's ... and with a Miller trade at least 50/50 this would help too. Rhino would be nice of course but his contract length is worrisome. What would Miller to Florida look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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