2023 NHL Entry Draft

[hammertime]

9 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

Such a weak argument. We tried drafting BPA but drafted poorly, therefore we drafted poorly because BPA. Lol.

I decided to do an exercise. Just for fun. Comparing who we drafted vs if we had drafted the next player of greatest positional need C or D. Ignoring C or D we drafted. 

                     Our Pick                   Next Positional Pick Taken

2013 Bo C, Hunter Shinkaruk--------> Shea Theodore LHD

2014 Jake Virtanen, --------------------> Hayden Fleury LHD

2015 Brock Boeser----------------------> Jack Roslovic C

2016 Juolevi LHD (Oops Sergachev LHD who played predominantly right side when drafted)

2017 Pete C

2018 Hughes D (If I bring up Sergachev it's only fair to argue we would have missed on Hughes for Boqvist.)

2019 Vasilli Podkolzin------------------> Victor Soderstrom RHD

2020 Joni Jurmo LHD

2021 Danila Klimovich-----------------> Pinelli C, Heimosalmi  RHD

2022 Jonathan Lekkerimaki----------> Lian Bichsel LHD who played predominantly right side.

 

We have had no trouble finding good wingers like Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Garland, Pearson, Toffoli, ect on the market. Why draft and develop a player when you can simply buy one already developed. What you can't buy at fair value are good young centers, D and power forwards. You gotta draft those.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by hammertime

[Gurn]

^ I'd like to see a comparison of who we drafted, compared to who the Central scouting agency said was the best at our slot.

or compared to Bobby Mac's 'consensus' list.

[hammertime]

33 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You won't see me arguing at all.  Right now Montreal has a slim outside chance of drafting 1st AND 2nd if the lottery breaks their way based on a 1st round pick traded conditionally for Ben gd Chiarot.  Cashing in on Miller would have been quite fine and I'd have been thrilled looking towards 2024 and 2025 for picks as the idea of drafting multiple times in the 1st and 2nd over the next few years is something Management should be incredibly keen on.  especially if they are gambling for 2025 and Michael Misa

 

But there's a few kids that stand out as the type of just do the right thing defensive prospects that win championships.  So many great defensemen are taking in the 2nd round over the past few years that this year has that feeling of there is a gem to be found.

 

Bonks kid looks like a gamer.  Cagnoni has grown on me in a big way as well.  Sandin-Pellikka is someone a number of people especially HoH have brought up and he looks incredible but I don't believe we're drafting that late in the 1st round.

Isn't the whole reason we have a scouting department to find and target the players you want for your team. I've seen far too much just picking the player that drops on the consensus mock draft board and literally anyone could do that. Detroit doesn't get Seider if they don't reach for him. Our scouting department needs to show itself.  

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Isn't the whole reason we have a scouting department to find and target the players you want for your team. I've seen far too much just picking the player that drops on the consensus mock draft board and literally anyone could do that. Detroit doesn't get Seider if they don't reach for him. Our scouting department needs to show itself.  

Or perhaps it is better that they  picked who they did, rather than their next choice?

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Gurn said:

^ I'd like to see a comparison of who we drafted, compared to who the Central scouting agency said was the best at our slot.

or compared to Bobby Mac's 'consensus' list.

Ohhh I can do this!

 

Final Rankings for June of each year based on writer/analyst/network of players drafted at the position we chose from 2013-2022 first round *years we didn't draft in the 1st round excluded

 

Central Scouting:  2013 9th Mueller (na) Burakovsky (eu), 24th McCoshen (na) Henriksson (eu), 2014 6th Virtanen (na) Kempe (eu), 2015 23rd Sprong (na) (no eu I can find), 2016 5th Dubois (Tkachuck 4th and Juolevi 7th first D on board), 2017 5th Rasmussen (na) Necas (eu), 2018 7th Wahlstrom (na) Denisenko (eu), 2019 10th Krebs (na) Kokkonen (eu) (Hoglander rated 11th Eu skater) 2021 15th Pickering (na) Trikozov (eu) 

 

So this is what I found for "consensus rankings" via NHL central scouting and consensus boards among the top 10 analysts and networks.  Make of it what you will but by and large it appears as though without question from 2013 onwards in the 1st round, drafting for positional need vs the "bpa" would have in fact helped this club

[Dazzle]

5 hours ago, hammertime said:

Jakub Dvorak is a player that interests me. Daniil Karpovich would probably be a real darkhorse.

 

This draft class doesn't have me super excited it's a great draft class but outside the top 10 there aren't a lot of guys screaming to me we need this guy. Like last year where if we had made some moves we might have grabbed us in no particular order Reid Schafer, Bichsel, Lammoureux, Rinzel, Bystedt, Kulich, Pickering, Mirochnichenko. There were so many players in the late first that fit the profile to be slam dunks for our team. It goes on into the 2nd. With Beck, Chesley, Warren, Nyman, Leinonen (G), Casey, Salomonson......

 

I think I'm butt chapped MGMT sat on their hands when they could have cashed in on Miller and to some extent Brock when most somewhat knowledgeable fans were able to see clearly their extensions wouldn't be worth the paper they were signed on and it was time to sell. I'm finding it a bit hard to get excited for this draft knowing that yet again we will pass over the player we need for the player that falls to us. Why have a scouting department at all if youre just gonna take the guy who falls. 

 

 

This is fair criticism. We cannot squander any more 2nd round picks because they are valuable. We should've traded Miller and gain some picks and/or fresh blood. This new management has been reluctant to accumulate picks. Looking at the other teams that have picks in this WJC tournament, we are really not well positioned with the depth. We cannot trade away players like Myenberg when we don't have RD prospects. We cannot trade 2nd round picks.

 

I keep harping about this, but Gillis really screwed the future of this franchise with that many missed picks. Those players should've been on our roster now and contributing, which would've enabled us to make more trades.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Dazzle

[Dazzle]

4 hours ago, hammertime said:

I decided to do an exercise. Just for fun. Comparing who we drafted vs if we had drafted the next player of greatest positional need C or D. Ignoring C or D we drafted. 

                     Our Pick                   Next Positional Pick Taken

2013 Bo C, Hunter Shinkaruk--------> Shea Theodore LHD

2014 Jake Virtanen, --------------------> Hayden Fleury LHD

2015 Brock Boeser----------------------> Jack Roslovic C

2016 Juolevi LHD (Oops Sergachev RHD)

2017 Pete C

2018 Hughes D (If I bring up Sergachev it's only fair to argue we would have missed on Hughes for Boqvist.)

2019 Vasilli Podkolzin------------------> Victor Soderstrom RHD

2020 Joni Jurmo LHD

2021 Danila Klimovich-----------------> Pinelli C, Heimosalmi  RHD

2022 Jonathan Lekkerimaki----------> Lian Bichsel LHD

 

We have had no trouble finding good wingers like Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Garland, Pearson, Toffoli, ect on the market. Why draft and develop a player when you can simply buy one already developed. What you can't buy at fair value are good young centers, D and power forwards. You gotta draft those.

 

 

 

 

Sergachev most likely would've busted on the Canucks, fyi. He is pretty bad defensively and would've never gained any traction on mediocre Canucks teams. Besides, he was a boom and bust prospect. He could've busted and we wouldn't have this discussion.

 

The draft in the first round that we picked Virtanen was pretty bad. Haydn Fleury isn't even that good. He's like a poster boy for a high draft pick that never lived up to his draft selection.

 

Podkolzin is still a good pick.  He'll be a good player and only 20 years old.

 

Klim is an excellent pick. He is ppg in the AHL now. He is overachieving for his pick. Likely the best 2nd round pick in Benning's tenure that he won't ever get credit for.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Dazzle

[HighOnHockey]

5 hours ago, hammertime said:

I decided to do an exercise. Just for fun. Comparing who we drafted vs if we had drafted the next player of greatest positional need C or D. Ignoring C or D we drafted. 

                     Our Pick                   Next Positional Pick Taken

2013 Bo C, Hunter Shinkaruk--------> Shea Theodore LHD

2014 Jake Virtanen, --------------------> Hayden Fleury LHD

2015 Brock Boeser----------------------> Jack Roslovic C

2016 Juolevi LHD (Oops Sergachev RHD)

2017 Pete C

2018 Hughes D (If I bring up Sergachev it's only fair to argue we would have missed on Hughes for Boqvist.)

2019 Vasilli Podkolzin------------------> Victor Soderstrom RHD

2020 Joni Jurmo LHD

2021 Danila Klimovich-----------------> Pinelli C, Heimosalmi  RHD

2022 Jonathan Lekkerimaki----------> Lian Bichsel LHD

 

We have had no trouble finding good wingers like Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Garland, Pearson, Toffoli, ect on the market. Why draft and develop a player when you can simply buy one already developed. What you can't buy at fair value are good young centers, D and power forwards. You gotta draft those.

 

 

 

 

Not sure how useful but this was for sure a fun exercise. Thanks for doing that.

 

Sergachev is left shot though. Even if you're arguing that he plays primarily the right side (which I'm not sure is correct), I'm pretty sure that was not the intention when he was drafted.

[Nucker 67]

JR/PA recently said something along the lines of that they aren't interested in draft picks, but wanted young players in return instead. Concerning.

 

Canucks may need to make some trades at the TDL, so what about Miller, for example?  Well, what team is going to want Miller at $8 million per starting next season? He's playing like a $5 million player and will only decline over the next 7 years. 

 

What are the chances JR/PA trade the 1st at the 2023 Draft to try and move Miller, or OEL?

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, HighOnHockey said:

Not sure how useful but this was for sure a fun exercise. Thanks for doing that.

 

Sergachev is left shot though. Even if you're arguing that he plays primarily the right side (which I'm not sure is correct), I'm pretty sure that was not the intention when he was drafted.

My post was not about Sergachev. 

 

I think it is a useful exercise. And illustrates quite clearly that if we had drafted purely best available C or D over the years we would have a much better foundation on which to build than we do today. 

[HighOnHockey]

6 minutes ago, hammertime said:

My post was not about Sergachev. 

 

I think it is a useful exercise. And illustrates quite clearly that if we had drafted purely best available C or D over the years we would have a much better foundation on which to build than we do today. 

... Do you honestly believe it shows that?

[HighOnHockey]

10 minutes ago, hammertime said:

My post was not about Sergachev. 

 

I think it is a useful exercise. And illustrates quite clearly that if we had drafted purely best available C or D over the years we would have a much better foundation on which to build than we do today. 

Also, what does the potato have to say about all of this?

[hammertime]

6 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Also, what does the potato have to say about all of this?

The Potato?

 

Also yes for a team that is building with an empty pipeline as we were (still are). Starting by filling the stable with D and C's would be prudent unless you're passing on a Tkachuk level talent. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by hammertime

[HighOnHockey]

I've watched most of Sweden's games in exhibition and round robin, and I'm just not seeing what others here seem to be seeing from Sandin-Pellikka. There's a lot to like, but I'm just not blown away. He's getting a lot of ice time because Sweden's defense just isn't that good. If Havelid, Edvinsson, Salomonsson were there, he wouldn't come close to seeing ice time on the PP. I do think he's a first rounder, with an outside chance of going top 20, but just don't buy the top 10 talk at this time..

[Kuzy]

1 hour ago, HighOnHockey said:

I've watched most of Sweden's games in exhibition and round robin, and I'm just not seeing what others here seem to be seeing from Sandin-Pellikka. There's a lot to like, but I'm just not blown away. He's getting a lot of ice time because Sweden's defense just isn't that good. If Havelid, Edvinsson, Salomonsson were there, he wouldn't come close to seeing ice time on the PP. I do think he's a first rounder, with an outside chance of going top 20, but just don't buy the top 10 talk at this time..

I'm seeing that "escapability" factor that is very hard to come by (much like how Hughes dances around guys at the blueline), and a RHD as well. There might be players that project to be more productive NHLers down the road but for me, it's the aforementioned combo and decent 2-way play that puts him in my top 10.

[R3aL]

On 12/31/2022 at 12:45 PM, hammertime said:

I decided to do an exercise. Just for fun. Comparing who we drafted vs if we had drafted the next player of greatest positional need C or D. Ignoring C or D we drafted. 

                     Our Pick                   Next Positional Pick Taken

2013 Bo C, Hunter Shinkaruk--------> Shea Theodore LHD

2014 Jake Virtanen, --------------------> Hayden Fleury LHD

2015 Brock Boeser----------------------> Jack Roslovic C

2016 Juolevi LHD (Oops Sergachev LHD who played predominantly right side when drafted)

2017 Pete C

2018 Hughes D (If I bring up Sergachev it's only fair to argue we would have missed on Hughes for Boqvist.)

2019 Vasilli Podkolzin------------------> Victor Soderstrom RHD

2020 Joni Jurmo LHD

2021 Danila Klimovich-----------------> Pinelli C, Heimosalmi  RHD

2022 Jonathan Lekkerimaki----------> Lian Bichsel LHD who played predominantly right side.

 

We have had no trouble finding good wingers like Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Garland, Pearson, Toffoli, ect on the market. Why draft and develop a player when you can simply buy one already developed. What you can't buy at fair value are good young centers, D and power forwards. You gotta draft those.

 

 

 

 

 Bo / Shea draft woulda been immense franchise changing…

 

I do agree though C and D should be prioritized it’s ridiculous how many wingers we have drafted while signing and trading for them too especially with a clear lack of D prospect depth

 

But some notes off memory..

 

I think I remember hearing our management was high on McCoshen so potentially they could have had him as next best D over Shea. 
 

Soderstrom still unsure of his future.

 

and if we didn’t take Hughes I think we would have taken Dobson, I remember hearing we were high on him and if Hughes was taken he woulda been our guy. 
 

could very well be wrong but this is my memory (whether real or delusions) 

Edited January 2, 2023 by R3aL

[Zerofaith]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:12 PM, Dazzle said:

Sergachev most likely would've busted on the Canucks, fyi. He is pretty bad defensively and would've never gained any traction on mediocre Canucks teams. Besides, he was a boom and bust prospect. He could've busted and we wouldn't have this discussion.

 

The draft in the first round that we picked Virtanen was pretty bad. Haydn Fleury isn't even that good. He's like a poster boy for a high draft pick that never lived up to his draft selection.

 

Podkolzin is still a good pick.  He'll be a good player and only 20 years old.

 

Klim is an excellent pick. He is ppg in the AHL now. He is overachieving for his pick. Likely the best 2nd round pick in Benning's tenure that he won't ever get credit for.

 

 

OJ says hello. 

[Hairy Kneel]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:04 PM, NUCKER67 said:

JR/PA recently said something along the lines of that they aren't interested in draft picks, but wanted young players in return instead. Concerning.

 

Canucks may need to make some trades at the TDL, so what about Miller, for example?  Well, what team is going to want Miller at $8 million per starting next season? He's playing like a $5 million player and will only decline over the next 7 years. 

 

What are the chances JR/PA trade the 1st at the 2023 Draft to try and move Miller, or OEL?

That 2nd was worth more than waiving Dickinson 

That 1st is worth more than buying out OEL next year

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

All the play for Sweden seems to run through Sandin-Pelikka. I have been very impressed with him.

[Dazzle]

8 hours ago, Zerofaith said:

OJ says hello. 

Hindsight is 2020, but at the time of the draft, OJ was ranked much higher than Sergachev. Picking Sergachev off the board probably would've been a mistake.

 

Sergachev on the Canucks would not have turned out the way he did with the Lightning. I'm certain he would've busted actually. If you watch him play, Serg benefits from a high offense, well constructed Lightning team.

 

What we needed OJ was to be a steady top 4 defenseman, which was what he had been projected to be.