A whole year of the same results and attitude and yet the core remains intact. It's Insane. Where is the accountability?

[wildcam]

9 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well, first off I agree with the question(s)

 

#1. Where is this change Rutherford talked about upon arrival?

#2. Where is the accountability. 

 

I watched last night as young Boldy went down a blocked a shot. Sacrifice for team!

 

But the biggest single question/problem/reality is............where will the improvement come from? I mean, basically Pettersson, Horvat, Hughes, Miller, Demko do not collectively have enough to consistently pull this team along, and when I look at that as a problem, I ask where does the next improvement that puts us into being a contending team, come from?

 

My answer is, it is not here! And what is worse is that with our current Cap allocations, we are more likely to loose talent, than actually add to it.

 

You can add to the Horvat, Kuzmenko, Pettersson contracts all coming up either this year or next, it will be hard to compete for top UFA talent, that actually might, fill in the holes.

 

In addition, we do not have enough character players. As a matter of fact, I don't see many that can actually will or lead a team out of a lack luster performance. People love Horvat, but in tough games, he is sporadic at best, Miller disappears and pouts. Pettersson is talented, but just so light and gets bounced around, and poor Huggie get beat up daily.

 

Unfortunately, we need a player that can take the heat off of Pettersson and Hughes, and is dominant enough to lead the team.

 

It is not the easy games that I speak of, but rather the tough ones, where teams focus on our 2 young stars, and there is no one to answer. IMO, this team needs to be totally rebuilt. And I do not see Aqualini allowing that to happen.

 

The sky does not fall every game, but big teams that have talent, really give our team a tough time. Poor Schenn can not do it alone, and Stillman is a middle weight, Joshua does not play big enough, and they don't play Burroughs enough.

 

The 2 most positively frustrating players IMO are 215 pound Horvat and 218 pound Miller. Neither consistently hit, and neither are good defensively, with Miller actually being atrocious. 

 

It is a "Fn" mess, and Rutherford sits on his hands. 

Changes have to Abe made with this group.They get fans excited the bubble run..

Lost Markstrom - Taffoli -- Tanev for zero return and that cannot happen those were top 6 players on team at the time..

 

Then we went on the amazing run last season when Bruce took over and not so inconsistent ..

Trades need to take place..

1. Miller 29 -- 7 X 8 million next season or Horvat  -- One of these guys must be moved soon..Would keep Horvat

2. Pearson 31 --- 2. yrs X 3.2 million - trade and retain 1 million

3. Myers - 32-- RD plays big mins-- will be easy to move after his 5 million bonus is paid out this July..

4. Boeser  25 ---3 yrs X 6.7 or Garland  26 - 4 yrs X 4.8 million-- One of these players need to be moved

[AnthonyG]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Like you, we all love our club and want us to be as good as those great Gillis teams.  IMHAO our owner needs to get out of management’s way so we can collect the young stars needed to become great.  Those Gillis teams had three first ballot Hall of Famers.  Twins drafted 2 and 3.  We traded for Lou (thank you Nonis) and he was drafted 3OA.  Does our current club have those kinds of key core pieces?  We love our guys, but maybe we just don’t have what it takes?  

This where you are so completely wrong and oblivious, no offence Alf. Gillis can suck it. Burke made the cake, Nonis added the icing, Gillis put the sprinkles on. That is how that 2010-11 team is broken down in terms of each GMs impact.

those “Gillis teams” were Burke’s and Nonis teams. Gillis built nothing but a bare prospect cupboard and zero future he added a few key players and that was it.

Bennings work will be what the combination of Burke and Nonis did. #1 Dman, starting goalie, a 1st line and several other good players plus we finally have some f***ing prospects. Alf dude, its been 5 years since we drafted Pettersson. FIVE. It took the twins almost 10 years to really take over the league. There is zero patience in the fan base, because we’ve never had to wait patiently and go through a rebuild until Gillis sold the future away and it finally caught up to us. Benning had to overcome 8 years of failed drafting. This is so incredibly frustrating that fans are ignorant to see just how bloody bad it was when Benning took over. You’ll look back and be thankful for Bennings work one day. Just like we all look back and thank Burke and Nonis, somehow they got fired, yet put together the biggest pieces for the 2011 run. Have some patience,

 

 

[KirkSave]

Imagine how bad our record would be...

 

-without Bo and Petey having career years and Miller at just under a PPG pace along with Kuz 

-our depth forwards, new additions have been a nice surprise too (Joshua, Aman, Lazar, Mik) all know their roles and play them well

-dangerous PP that has found its groove over the past month

 

IN spite of these positives, the lack of consistency from one game to the next, the inability to hold leads and overall porous team defense, and the SLOW starts at home are inexcusable. History is repeating itself and nobody seems to have an answer. So many clips of Boudreau bewildered with this group of players. Major moves should be on the horizon. It's just so hard to move out players and contracts since most teams are cap strapped.

 

First major domino will be Brock. Then maybe Garland or Pearson. Lastly, Bo is likely dealt at the TDL. He is pricing himself out of Van with his excellent play this season. 

[ShawnAntoski]

34 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

Imagine how bad our record would be...

 

-without Bo and Petey having career years and Miller at just under a PPG pace along with Kuz 

-our depth forwards, new additions have been a nice surprise too (Joshua, Aman, Lazar, Mik) all know their roles and play them well

-dangerous PP that has found its groove over the past month

 

IN spite of these positives, the lack of consistency from one game to the next, the inability to hold leads and overall porous team defense, and the SLOW starts at home are inexcusable. History is repeating itself and nobody seems to have an answer. So many clips of Boudreau bewildered with this group of players. Major moves should be on the horizon. It's just so hard to move out players and contracts since most teams are cap strapped.

 

First major domino will be Brock. Then maybe Garland or Pearson. Lastly, Bo is likely dealt at the TDL. He is pricing himself out of Van with his excellent play this season. 

Good points; and I wonder, if Aquaman will be willing to eat more money, to fix his mess.  But good chance, he will rather wait out the contracts and pressure his 3rd straight, inexperienced GM to make shortsighted moves for an extension...

[J.I.A.H.N]

@AnthonyG I would just like to start by apologizing to you. You came along with a statement counter to my beliefs, and I personalized it. I was wrong for that, but my intent was to illustrate, just what yours and many others argument is........(You argue well, by the way!)

 

The problem with your argument is that Aqualini and his army of GM's have not practiced patience. Countless times they have gone out and signed high end UFA's or gone out and traded for the likes of OEL and Garland, before we are ready, and have totally given up on building through the draft. A total 100% display of impatience.

 

As you have pointed out, they went and signed Mikheyev, when a Dman was what was needed, but more than that, their impatience caused pressure on our cap space. In our next 2 years, we have to find Cap room for Horvat, Kuzmenko, Pettersson a replacement for Myers, and an up grade for a second RHD. All with limited cap.

 

The reason this is such an issue, is we have not developed any home grown ELC's recently, and that is because we have had no 1st round picks, and few 2nd round picks, these picks are important as they allow GM's to sign their own RFA's and our own UFA's, when their contracts are up. It lowers the average player cap, otherwise we have to go and either get lesser UFA's than we need, or over pay for UFA's we can not afford, long term. (for the reason's I stated above) It is a vicious circle.

 

It is our ownership and management that has exercised impatience, and Rutherford again, traded away a 2024 2nd in a deep draft to continue that circle. I do agree that it was 11 years after being drafted that the Sedin's finally made the final, but that was with continuing to draft important pieces, after the fact. Those other pieces, helped, and with out Kesler and Edler to name a few, including Cory Schneider, who was drafted in 2004, and eventually brought us Bo Horvat, we would not have made it.

 

What I and many others call for is a re-adjustment, and a focus on a proper re-build, which will take 2 or 3 years of drafting, and development. (I am not adverse to trading Miller and Horvat for young assets or picks, that are in the same age grouping as Pettersson and Hughes. We preach patience, and a proper re-build.

 

Please note, that under your scenario, we fall back, because we do not have enough cap, or we trade pieces that need to be replaced, by either UFA's or draft picks coming within the next 1 to 3 years. I say, it is way better to plan, then to hope! But if it is expensive UFA's it continues the circle, and if it is by way of trade, we end up loosing ELC's, via trading draft picks..............it is a mess Brother!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[Zerofaith]

11 hours ago, BertaNuck said:

Maybe if they can add one more great piece to management we can pull out of this and make the playoffs

Dress up the turd even more

[J.I.A.H.N]

11 hours ago, BertaNuck said:

Maybe if they can add one more great piece to management we can pull out of this and make the playoffs

The funny thing is, they did not even get that entirely right, did they? LOL 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, KirkSave said:

Miller had a high number of hits last year where he predominantly played at C. Hitting is a part of his game whether he is at C or W.

Maybe he should hit less and back check more and maybe he'd still be playing C then?

[AnthonyG]

50 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

An expensive top pair, that STILL breaks down when pressured.  Perhaps good enough in the regular season but a POTENTIAL hot mess, in the playoffs.  

 

Just wondering, if you can quickly elaborate, what made them a top pairing, whilst, the team was still garbage ?

"Potential" lol "poh-ten-shull" there is nothing guaranteed about that. Also every pair breaks down when pressured. Myers has 15 giveaways and 12 takeaways. So to anyone calling him a floater, think again, he battles and gets the puck back in the corners. 5 less takeaways than Hughes. OEL has 4 TKA and 14GVA. Hedman has 28 GVA, so is he overrated? He has 1 less giveaway than Myers and OEL combined.  

 

What placed Myers-OEL in the top 10 was - high danger chances allowed, scoring chances against, HDGA, oiSV% and pretty much everything to do with defense that makes a goalies job easy. combined they allow the fewest chances and even fewer high danger chances. Our goalies have a .940sv% when they are together at 5v5. Thatcher Demko has struggled and that is no secret. So I actually spoke to Brad Shaw last year at a practice, him and Schenn did a Q&A with fans and I asked him - "what was the difference on special teams between the start of the year and near the end of the year, in the beginning special teams were losing us games and now they are winning us games"

This was Brad Shaw's answer "This is the first time I've ever seen this, but I am the 3rd PK coach this season. But ultimtately our best PKers were not out best PKers and by that I mean goaltending." He went on a little longer and just spoke about finding pairings etc that worked and just minor details on PK.

 

53 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

The players that ideally should be brought in, are drafted in the top 5/10 but the team is fixated on drafting, in the teens or early twenties.  JR has won cups but he can't perform miracles, in a 3 year period; and his signing is looking like the Messier signing: a publicity stunt for Aquaman/Keenan and their last chance to cash in.  

Draft position is due to standings? How are we fixated on drafting there when we have no choice? I dont quite understand that part? Idk if you meant something else?

 

Can you tell me what JR's impact was on the back-to-back cups? How much of that work was his own and how much did he inherit? Cuz I can tell ya it wasnt much. Plus he threw away the decade for Pittsburgh. When Malkin and Crosby are coming to and end of their careers, PIT is going to need another Malkin and Crosby to get them out of hell.

 

You're saying 3 years is too soon for JR to perform miracles when he has Hughes, Pettersson, Demko, Horvat, Boeser, Miller, Garland, Schenn to work with, all are tradeable and all have value, some way more than others,these were all his gifts from Benning, along with some prospects in the cupboards.. So 3 years with that many assets is too short of time. But 7 years 6 months and 14 days was way too long for Benning who had..............................what to work with? Kesler with full control over his final destination? The twins which are immovable? Bieksa, Hamhuis, Hansen, Burrows, all well past their best before date and most of them didnt even last another 2 years? Zero prospects, a flattened cap out of the blue, a cap recapture penalty, 2 expansion drafts.... Like jesus man the guy was fighting a losing battle regardless. T JR and PA have targeted forwards, when they publicly stated our defence needs work. Wut? "Our goalies stood on their head....defence was allowing too much.... hmmmm LETS GET MORE FORWARDS!"

 

1 hour ago, ShawnAntoski said:

You forgot to mention the over 25/26 players, that are eating up most of the cap and are ALSO, looking to get paid at the end of the year: Bear, Kuz and Horvat - where is the cap coming from cause there are some obvious anchors on the contract, that would take a miracle to get off the books.  If you have been paying attention the same shortsighted - ever retooling plan for futures has been on play since 2011 and Aquaman can afford to keep gambling on "win now" moves cause it is still profitable.

 

As for the playoffs, I would still argue it is mostly about the match up and some luck - unless, the team is favored by the league to win: 94 Rags and 11 Bruins.

I did mention Horvat and Kuzmenko, Bear is not as high of a priority, he's an RFA, so I didnt mention him.

 

The "miracle" would have been to move Miller and Boeser. WOAH a miracle almost 15mil opened up right there, a little rise in the cap next season... Problem solved, PLUS all the cost-controlled youth you would have gotten back in a Miller and Boeser trade. Still not enough room? See ya later Pearson. Goodbye Garland. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Hoglander makes Garland redundant, the idiocy to not see that is baffling. Hoglander is younger, he's much stronger and a better skater than Garland on top of that, just as shifty. 22 years old versus turning 27 next year. Another missed opportunity to capitalize on max value of a player. Hoglander has exactly the same amount of goals and 1 less assist at 5v5 as Garland right now. 

 

As for playoffs... I think was you that mentioned we got lowballed on the offer for JT Miller? How much do you think NYR, if true, regrets not acquiring Miller at the TDL. They were held to 1 goal in their final 3 games of the ECF, they had the #1 goalie in the league doing his part, but no one could score for him. He held the Bolts to 2-3 goals in each game that series. TBL only scored 4 goals once and that was with an empty netter. Other than that, they had everything going for them, except a guy like JT Miller who would have been a difference maker in that series and in the finals. It would have been such a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things to pay 2 1sts pick and a prospect and a young roster player for JT Miller at the TDL.They likely would have gone on to win the cup with the Vezina winner and last years Norris winner. 

 

Also by the time you get to the finals, it comes down to goaltending and healthy bodies. You can be as skilled as you want, if you're banged up, you're fighting an uphill battle. If your goalie is shakey, good luck, it aint happenin for ya.

 

 

Drop the Bruins controversy. Vancouver was HEAVILY injured. Forget the reffs, because they gave us 8 f***ing powerplays in game 3, we went 0/8 gave up a shorty and Boston went 2/4 on the PP. Overall Vancouver had more powerplays, more shots, more hits, more faceoff wins, more scoring chances, LITERALLY EVERYTHING, except goals, the only thing that mattered. It came down to Tim F***ing Thomas and Roberto Luongo, 8 goals against Thomas in 7 games and that wasn't for a lack of effort or chances, he was the better goaltender, by a LARGE margin. Lou let in 23 goals I think it was? almost 3x more. Even in game 7, we had more power plays, albeit only 2PPs to their 1. Game 4 in Boston, we had 6PPs to their 4... Both teams went 0 on the PP.

Vancouver was not healthy, the list of injuries, missing players etc, heavily outweight Horton and Lucic's broken toe. Stop blaming the f***ing league, we lost. Fair and square. Luongo sh*t the bed. He got eaten alive in Boston and we couldnt beat Thomas once on 37 shots in game 7, Boston won 4-0 and only registered 21 shots. I F***ing hate Boston, but they won fair and square end of story. as for '94 I was too young to comment on that.

[rawkdrummer]

Luongo did shart in game 7.  He was pushed into our net and took the puck with him?

He also asked TWICE to be traded.

He could of retired due to injury instead of us paying his cap.

That's why I want to puke when he's mentioned in honouring him here in Vancouver.

I take some relief his number isn't being retired.

 

 

[AnthonyG]

32 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@AnthonyG I would just like to start by apologizing to you. You came along with a statement counter to my beliefs, and I personalized it. I was wrong for that, but my intent was to illustrate, just what yours and many others argument is........(You argue well, by the way!)

 

The problem with your argument is that Aqualini and his army of GM's have not practiced patience. Countless times they have gone out and signed high end UFA's or gone out and traded for the likes of OEL and Garland, before we are ready, and have totally given up on building through the draft. A total 100% display of impatience.

 

As you have pointed out, they went and signed Mikheyev, when a Dman was what was needed, but more than that, their impatience caused pressure on our cap space. In our next 2 years, we have to find Cap room for Horvat, Kuzmenko, Pettersson a replacement for Myers, and an up grade for a second RHD. All with limited cap.

 

The reason this is such an issue, is we have not developed any home grown ELC's recently, and that is because we have had no 1st round picks, and few 2nd round picks, these picks are important as they allow GM's to sign their own RFA's and our own UFA's, when their contracts are up. It lowers the average player cap, otherwise we have to go and either get lesser UFA's than we need, or over pay for UFA's we can not afford, long term. (for the reason's I stated above) It is a vicious circle.

 

It is our ownership and management that has exercised impatience, and Rutherford again, traded away a 2024 2nd in a deep draft to continue that circle. I do agree that it was 11 years after being drafted that the Sedin's finally made the final, but that was with continuing to draft important pieces, after the fact. Those other pieces, helped, and with out Kesler and Edler to name a few, including Cory Schneider, who was drafted in 2004, and eventually brought us Bo Horvat, we would not have made it.

 

What I and many others call for is a re-adjustment, and a focus on a proper re-build, which will take 2 or 3 years of drafting, and development. (I am not adverse to trading Miller and Horvat for young assets or picks, that are in the same age grouping as Pettersson and Hughes. We preach patience, and a proper re-build.

 

Please note, that under your scenario, we fall back, because we do not have enough cap, or we trade pieces that need to be replaced, by either UFA's or draft picks coming within the next 1 to 3 years. I say, it is way better to plan, then to hope! But if it is expensive UFA's it continues the circle, and if it is by way of trade, we end up loosing ELC's, via trading draft picks..............it is a mess Brother!

 

 

 

 

Dude no offense taken, we're all frustrated I get it.

 

I think the culmination of never going through a rebuild as fans, the COVID season that crushed our playoff chances, last year Petey taking 43 games to get rollin and being held pointless in 24 of those games which ultimately would have been the difference maker if he was rolling to start the season, plus this years start is just too overwhelming for a fan base that isn't used to losing.

 

We have to step back and take a deep look at what is truly going on and how we got here. It started with our drafting from 2005 onward. Bourdon was a tragic loss and there is nothing anyone could have done about that, that still hurt us down the road. After 2005, we rarely drafted and developed NHL talent. Why did we struggle to develop players from 2005 onward? You cant go 8 years without finding at least ONE good player. By the time the Sedins closed in on their careers and retired earlier than we expected, we all figured, like most franchise players, they'd go til 40. That's fine though, but when they stepped away..... We didnt really have much in the pipes, Boeser, Horvat, Virtanen and Pettersson...... Luckily 3/4 were impact players quite quickly. JV was progressing each year, increasing his goal and point totals every season up until COVID and the other sh*t that was going on with him. So when Benning took over, he really had to hit out of the park with his drafting, or this would be 10x uglier. He did everything he could to try and appease the owner, do right by the Sedin's and out respect for them and their careers, he tried to multitask by trying to win a cup through free agency, while rebuilding through the draft on the fly, flipping 2nds for youthful roster players to slowly take over and transition out of the Sedin era. To his credit he did quite a good job of trying to manage all of that at once. We made playoffs and went from 23rd to 8th in one off-season thanks to Benning. Ultimately the truth caught up and we needed to rebuild, however kept trying to give the Sedins a cup through free agent signings while holding onto his 1sts. When they did retire he inserted his picks into the roster and built a bottom 6 in free agency to try and stabilize the growing pains. Beagle, Roussel and Schaller were brought in strictly to bring experience and provide veteran leadership, cup winning experience and play key roles on the PK, win draws etc.. While the youth ahead figured things out as they went along, because we didnt have anybody else to put there. Horvat was the only player from the previous 8 years of drafting to step in.

 

 

Here's a way you can look at the OEL and Garland trade. Yes we gave up a 9th, there is zero guarantees that pick ever becomes an impact player. Poor kid is also playing in a 5000 seat arena in the desert where his career is going to struggle on a garbage Arizona team. Back to my point though, we needed a top 4 D, OEL was 29, thats not too risky on a dman, forwards yes, because Dmen rely on timing, knowing where to be and when to be there and gap control. You can back off early and give yourself time to ajdust to the play. Forwards on the other hand need speed, finding the open areas and being the first one there. So OEL was not too much of a risk in those regards, Garland is young and brings some skill and 2nd scoring to the team. Benning addressed an issue on D, because between Bourdon and OJ, health did not favor our draft picks on D. We had to find a dman somehere some how and someway and we needed to dump cap. Arizona is the dumping ground of the league, so we were off to the desert to dump some bodies and get leave a little thank you gift and we'll take that and that, buh-bye. Both of these players coming in are cost controlled for a min of 4 years. That gives us a 4 year period of not having to stress about finding a solution every single passing season, like Edmonton is currently doing. They are just picking through the has-been pile and trying to recycle garbage on short term cheap deals, same with Toronto. Defencemen are almost always home grown and rarely parted with, we never really drafted Dmen in the 1st round and hoped to find a gem later. OJ had a stellar year, was ranked higher than every other dman by most experts and we took our shot on a Dman 1 spot above his final ranking. Sure we coulda had Tkachuk, but at some point you HAVE to make that sacrifice and start developing Dmen. Unfotunately injuries got in the way and really derailed him, plus he was hit very hard by COVID.

 

I can guarntee you this all PTSD from that COVID season. Had we not got hit with COVID and made playoffs, this wouldnt feel so painful. But COVD was nothing anyone could have done anything about and the 2 years well spent inside with no social life, plus a couple crappy starts.... destroyed our patience and sanity. 

[AnthonyG]

@J.I.A.H.N @ShawnAntoski @Alflives

 

If you break down Benning's overall work, its not that bad.

 

He made playoffs twice in his first 5 seasons as a GM, 2015 and 2020, with a depleted core and no prospects and having to build on the fly. You can argue they weren't in a playoff spot when the season paused in 2020, but none-the-less, they EARNED a playoff berth by winning their play-in series, then smoked STL and took VGK to 7, where Demko, JB's pick began to shine and show the future. 

Had it have not been for COVID decimating our team mid season in '21, this would have yet again been a playoff team. Even with Pettersson being sidelined for the remainder of the season. 

Last year, nothing on paper changed, Pettersson didnt show up to camp early, had a crap camp, Demko and Halak struggled on the PK and had they found their game sooner, or had Pettersson shown up ready to go last season from the start, we would have yet again been a playoff team, last season was not the fault of the coach or the GM, that was on the players to show up and be ready. Your number 1 player takes 43 games to start putting his game together, is unacceptable. 24 pointless games in the first 43 games of last season for Pettersson, blame Benning all you want, but ultimately this came down to the players not pulling their weight.

 

Maybe this team was over achieving and this is reality, idk. But to me I feel this teams failure to start the season on time, is the problem. On paper there is so much potential. Our D needs a #2 Dman to work with Hughes, put OEL and Myers back together as the 3/4 and leave them together. They were our best pair last season and one of the best pairs in the league last year. For whatever reason, they are splitting them up this year and diluting our defensive pairs instead of having 2 strong pairs and 1 weak one, we have 1 good pair and 2 watered down pairs with Stillman has a liability.

 

We all need to step back and take a deep breath, if you are unhappy losing right now, how the hell do you expect to stick through a rebuild, because those can go on forever. If this season is in the toilet, who cares, we're getting a high pick, isn't that what we want??? What do we want??? Playoffs or picks?

Just remember, Arizona has been rebuilding forever, Edmonton took 10+ years and are still 50% of the time a playoff team and really are held together by 2 players outscoring the countless problems they have. Buffalo is a train wreck again, NJD spent 10 of the last 11 years outside the playoffs, Florida spent 16/18 years outside of the playoffs (10 straight years) Toronto spent 9/10 years outside the playoffs and they are only a couple players better than EDM. Carolina 9 straight years outside the playoffs.. all of this is in the salary cap era. Like it could be a lot worse for us. Not only that, Benning never had a generational pick like McDavid or Matthews to hide the problems. We've had to build from at the 5th spot and below. Just take that into consideration. And yes our owner is a prick and is the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who you put in the chair, our owner controls the recliner.

[J.I.A.H.N]

@AnthonyG No disrespect intended, but I get the history lessen and totally disagree with his and your analysis

 

IMO, and there are many GM's in the league to this day, to prove me right

 

You build through the draft and fill holes through free agency, and not the other way around, or by taking short cuts and in the Cap world, ELC's are king, as they average down your average cap hit..............this is something that you gloss over.

 

If you look at the recent history of Vancouver....we had 2 blips....one in 2014-2015, where we ended up 8th OA and really last year, when we went on the run, but still ended up out of the playoffs...................this is not the image of a perennial playoff team............ and again we never attempted to address our RHD problem, created when we let Tanev walk.......Forgot about our playoff run in 2020...sorry!

 

We are short 2 NHL quality NHL Dman, compared to other top 10 teams. We have known that since before we drafted Juolevi, and which is why we drafted Juolevi

 

This "rebuild" has been down ass backwards, especially compared to LA, Ottawa, and New Jersey or even Carolina not that long ago.

 

IMO, we have had an over zealous owner, who has hired yes GM's the past 10 years, and our scouting staff, both pro and amateur has been sub par. You and I could have done a potato draft and picked Pettersson and Hughes.

 

I hate these last 10 years............too much player over team for me!

 

People do not seem to get it!

 

Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Hull, Espo, Park, Rattelle, Dionne, Shutt, Chara, Tzapuke, Linden, Bure, Luongo, etc have all been fan favorites or have walked from their Drafting teams. Yet, we could not see it clear to move Hank and Danny, and Edler, all of whom would have given us amazing returns, which would have set us up for years...including these years!

 

Imagine where we would have drafted in 2013/2014/2015 is we would not have had them..........which was the only reason we even looked competitive. 

 

The team has been flawed ever since after Burke was GM.....................no plan!

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[J.I.A.H.N]

12 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

@J.I.A.H.N @ShawnAntoski @Alflives

 

If you break down Benning's overall work, its not that bad.

 

He made playoffs twice in his first 5 seasons as a GM, 2015 and 2020, with a depleted core and no prospects and having to build on the fly. You can argue they weren't in a playoff spot when the season paused in 2020, but none-the-less, they EARNED a playoff berth by winning their play-in series, then smoked STL and took VGK to 7, where Demko, JB's pick began to shine and show the future. 

Had it have not been for COVID decimating our team mid season in '21, this would have yet again been a playoff team. Even with Pettersson being sidelined for the remainder of the season. 

Last year, nothing on paper changed, Pettersson didnt show up to camp early, had a crap camp, Demko and Halak struggled on the PK and had they found their game sooner, or had Pettersson shown up ready to go last season from the start, we would have yet again been a playoff team, last season was not the fault of the coach or the GM, that was on the players to show up and be ready. Your number 1 player takes 43 games to start putting his game together, is unacceptable. 24 pointless games in the first 43 games of last season for Pettersson, blame Benning all you want, but ultimately this came down to the players not pulling their weight.

 

Maybe this team was over achieving and this is reality, idk. But to me I feel this teams failure to start the season on time, is the problem. On paper there is so much potential. Our D needs a #2 Dman to work with Hughes, put OEL and Myers back together as the 3/4 and leave them together. They were our best pair last season and one of the best pairs in the league last year. For whatever reason, they are splitting them up this year and diluting our defensive pairs instead of having 2 strong pairs and 1 weak one, we have 1 good pair and 2 watered down pairs with Stillman has a liability.

 

We all need to step back and take a deep breath, if you are unhappy losing right now, how the hell do you expect to stick through a rebuild, because those can go on forever. If this season is in the toilet, who cares, we're getting a high pick, isn't that what we want??? What do we want??? Playoffs or picks?

Just remember, Arizona has been rebuilding forever, Edmonton took 10+ years and are still 50% of the time a playoff team and really are held together by 2 players outscoring the countless problems they have. Buffalo is a train wreck again, NJD spent 10 of the last 11 years outside the playoffs, Florida spent 16/18 years outside of the playoffs (10 straight years) Toronto spent 9/10 years outside the playoffs and they are only a couple players better than EDM. Carolina 9 straight years outside the playoffs.. all of this is in the salary cap era. Like it could be a lot worse for us. Not only that, Benning never had a generational pick like McDavid or Matthews to hide the problems. We've had to build from at the 5th spot and below. Just take that into consideration. And yes our owner is a prick and is the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who you put in the chair, our owner controls the recliner.

The results were not bad, but he had no exit plan...................no ELC's and no cap......you have to have both in this era

 

The proof is today......................we have no ELC's and no Cap! LOL

 

PS.....................we rode Demko in that playoff run.........ask Vegas!

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[AnthonyG]

Just now, J.I.A.H.N said:

The results were not bad, but he had no exit plan...................no ELC's and no cap......you have to have both in this era

 

The proof is today......................we have no ELC's and no cap! LOL

Okay I’m just heading to bed, I’ll get back to you tomorrow on your previous reply. Also the flat cap was a massive blow to Benning along with almost every GM other than the dumping grounds of the league. Less than 2 weeks prior to COVID, Bill Daly announced an expected rise in the cap to 84.2-88mil

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/03/04/nhl-salary-cap-ceiling-projected-to-increase-for-2020-21-season/amp/

Benning cant see that coming, he just acquired Toffoli and was prepared for a cap rise and they announced it was going up and quite a big jump possibly, then all of the sudden its flattened and now everyone is in a pinch and scrambling. He had no choice but to let those guys walk, for the future. It hurt, but it was the smart thing to do and he had to wager on ways to fix it, by acquiring Schmidt, which went sour, recouped his losses on Schmidt and then went and acquired a cost controlled dman in an uncertain cap climate. Thats forward thinking. Not having to worry about constant contract negations and getting swallowed up by the stagnant cap and very slow to rise ceiling.

 

There is an ELC plan, you’re just not looking at it. Its in the minors, Benning bad to build a team and a prospect pool. Cant do both at the same time, but he managed to build a team and get the prospect pool swimmable. Its not deep, but how can you expect a rebuilt team top to bottom and a deep pool in 7 years? I’ll get back to you more tomorrow. Have a good night!

[Devron]

I imagine we are waiting for the offers to hopefully get better closer to the deadline. Unless a team is desperate to make a move sooner than later I don’t see anything happening until February or March.

 

Ive been hard on management like anyone else but as of right now it kinda is what it is until then.

 

If they F it up this time (again) well I think I’m on my last gas here. Don’t know what else to say other than I’m pretty sure we just double downed on Benning this summer re-signing Miller. We need a shocker deal. A blockbuster type move. There’s not much to lose at this point. Not for an aging defencemen though haha 
 

I was pretty on the fence with things in the summer. Wasn’t sure how to best proceed with the team moving forward. Thought signing Miller meant other moves were coming shortly after. It’s the only thing that made sense to me.

 

I do like what they’ve done with the 4th line, the Russians look like keepers or sellers depending on how you look at it. Bear solid acquisition. None of that shit moves the bar though. It would probably look genius had there been a real change to the defence core. It would be nice to see Quinn Hughes not be the only guy that could move the puck. Or Schenn be the only guys that plays his ass off. Well Burroughs does that but we chose to sit him for a guy management hopes pans out.

 

A lot of hoping, no real action thus far. 

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Sometimes a trade can help, but honestly Ghost, if you have to scare a player into performing, he is not the guy you want. It has to be in your DNA, for the most part it just does not magically appear.

 

I will add to that, that I don't think the modern player sees a threat the same way the older players did. Now they just demand a trade knowing they can make their money anywhere. I like said, those that are born with drive, never have to be asked. The guys you have to ask, well, that later rule applies to.

 

 

 

 

Well said.   Of course these guys have drive, they are driven to make the NHL and work hard on their craft to get the big bucks.    Guys like Iginla, Bieksa. Schenn, Marroon, are coveted later in their careers because that drive hasn't gone away ... born with it like you said.   And a big reason some get passed around and are coveted once that second season starts.   Mike Keane types.

 

It's not just their skill level.    Part of the drive problem is systematic.   Long term contracts didn't use to exist like they do now.   Second deals were almost always bridges.    Long term deals were like the ones we had with Naslund and the Sedins.    Despite showing they could already do it, weren't given 7-8 year deals.   The other part is times have changed. 

 

   The game has changed in large part because the world around us has too.  Cap came in.  As did a new generation of player that made draconian disciplinarian coaches like Hitchcock and Keenan style completely irrelevant.   Hitchcock adapted and talked about how that kept him in the league.  "now i have to be a therapist, a Dad and a friend at times to motivate this new wave of players" paraphrased.   Used to be a fear driven sport to a large degree, fear of losing your spot (Gainey said no way was he letting that kid at the other side of the locker room get his spot, from his first game to his last), fear of getting demoted, fear of a lot of things for less skilled players and even the highly skilled ones.     Boomers and Gen x's responded to this, more fear more production in a way.   Martin Gelinas.  Whom have we had the past two decades, that would drive to the net with the same wreckless abandon?    Kesler and Bertuzzi?

 

To me it's both systematic now and the modern player's themselves don't have the same fear drive.   Of course they have a ton even to make the league ... but that next level drive is harder to find.    A ton of jobs available for one in comparison.  32 teams instead of 12-21.   Father in-law thinks half the league should be in the AHL lol.   Don't agree but get his point, and can't comment because i wasn't alive for original six.     Expansion is one.   Cap and new methodology of signing players doesn't help either.   Used to be almost all young stars, we're  given a couple short deals.   And often enough short deals right until retirement (as in 3-4 years).    

 

Now it's all about rolling the dice after showing some promise to lock them in so they get a "window" to build around.   Clubs are forced to roll the dice .   This took a little time to gain traction too after cap came in.   Naslund and the Sedins ... what were their longest term deals again?   That's how stars were treated, instead of a 2-4 year deal for the average joe, 5ish.   In other words the carrot was always there.  Well at least until salaries exploded that got ugly too. 

 

Look at Benn and Seguin as a case study.   Hart winner, the heir apparent to Iginla.    Fantasy hockey well those guys were pure gold - just like the Sedins, you knew what you were getting, 80ish points and barely in their early primes.    Then they got their legacy deals and it got so bad the owners ripped them apart in the media.     And those guys are driven.  

 

To me the NHLPA and the NHL and the fans, would be well served to bring that carrot back.    Put a cap on RFA deals for one.   8% maybe.   And lower both RFA and UFA lengths by a year each, and allow guys to be free agents a year earlier.   Put that extra year onto teams that drafted them once they become UFAs.   Restrict the UFA length to 7 years, if a player wants to test the market, 5 years max.   Too many teams end up with bad cap.   That helps nobody (us fans included, LE was far from the only bad deal).   Buyouts create escrow which players hate.   AHLers have to be used to lower cap.   And well like Grandpa says, too many teams.   Players earning 3rd contract money, is the norm now on their second deal.    Another option is to make 3 sets of 3 year deals mandatory for all.   Then free agency.   The carrot has being removed the way things are now.   That reduces drive league wide.  

 

Don't know how else to fix that.   But could see the NHLPA signing off on it.   If 20% of the players are earning 80% of the pie, but they each get a vote..:i'm sure guys like Schenn get closer to what they are actually worth.    And guys that still have hockey in them, will want to keep playing because they haven't earned what they hoped to yet, and more of the pot is available to the masses.    

Edited December 12, 2022 by IBatch

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

@J.I.A.H.N @ShawnAntoski @Alflives

 

If you break down Benning's overall work, its not that bad.

 

He made playoffs twice in his first 5 seasons as a GM, 2015 and 2020, with a depleted core and no prospects and having to build on the fly. You can argue they weren't in a playoff spot when the season paused in 2020, but none-the-less, they EARNED a playoff berth by winning their play-in series, then smoked STL and took VGK to 7, where Demko, JB's pick began to shine and show the future. 

Had it have not been for COVID decimating our team mid season in '21, this would have yet again been a playoff team. Even with Pettersson being sidelined for the remainder of the season. 

Last year, nothing on paper changed, Pettersson didnt show up to camp early, had a crap camp, Demko and Halak struggled on the PK and had they found their game sooner, or had Pettersson shown up ready to go last season from the start, we would have yet again been a playoff team, last season was not the fault of the coach or the GM, that was on the players to show up and be ready. Your number 1 player takes 43 games to start putting his game together, is unacceptable. 24 pointless games in the first 43 games of last season for Pettersson, blame Benning all you want, but ultimately this came down to the players not pulling their weight.

 

Maybe this team was over achieving and this is reality, idk. But to me I feel this teams failure to start the season on time, is the problem. On paper there is so much potential. Our D needs a #2 Dman to work with Hughes, put OEL and Myers back together as the 3/4 and leave them together. They were our best pair last season and one of the best pairs in the league last year. For whatever reason, they are splitting them up this year and diluting our defensive pairs instead of having 2 strong pairs and 1 weak one, we have 1 good pair and 2 watered down pairs with Stillman has a liability.

 

We all need to step back and take a deep breath, if you are unhappy losing right now, how the hell do you expect to stick through a rebuild, because those can go on forever. If this season is in the toilet, who cares, we're getting a high pick, isn't that what we want??? What do we want??? Playoffs or picks?

Just remember, Arizona has been rebuilding forever, Edmonton took 10+ years and are still 50% of the time a playoff team and really are held together by 2 players outscoring the countless problems they have. Buffalo is a train wreck again, NJD spent 10 of the last 11 years outside the playoffs, Florida spent 16/18 years outside of the playoffs (10 straight years) Toronto spent 9/10 years outside the playoffs and they are only a couple players better than EDM. Carolina 9 straight years outside the playoffs.. all of this is in the salary cap era. Like it could be a lot worse for us. Not only that, Benning never had a generational pick like McDavid or Matthews to hide the problems. We've had to build from at the 5th spot and below. Just take that into consideration. And yes our owner is a prick and is the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who you put in the chair, our owner controls the recliner.

Admirable job, summarizing your recollection of the JB era.  I can agree, that Aquaman takes all the blame cause he is the architect of all the FO, under his ownership.  Imo, it his tendency to sign them short term - that has handcuffed them and forced them to keep making shortsighted gambles.  Also good chance, Aquamans "win now" strategy will continue cause it is still a profitable endeavor and the usual rise to the middle of the standings or NHL Purgatory will continue.  You can nitpick a stat or decision - but hindsight and the yearly results, has only confirmed the poor leadership that keeps  making the shortsighted decision(s)/gambles.  But I am also, not discounting the good times/success - but still no regardless of the various team trophies.

 

As for rebuilding, the competence of the FO and who the owner is, has to be included when discussing a rebuild.  You had highlighted, all the ever rebuilding losers but you had purposely or forgot, to mention the teams that had won a Stanley Cup, in the Cap era: most/all had successfully done a rebuild, through the draft (just like the 2011 roster).  During JBs' hiring, the rebuilding clubs that I can remeber were: the Avs, the Spoilers and the various ever rebuilding loser clubs (Buffalo, Arizona & etc); and the Avs under Sakic, was the one team that came out of that group, that eventually won a cup.  Anyways, I can go on when it comes to the rebuilding topic. Right now, during Allvins' retool the rebuilding clubs are: the Yotes, Habs, Bluejackets & Ducks (might have missed some); and good chance, one or more of these clubs will be a more competitive team for the Stanley Cup, than the will be Canucks in a few years - if the status qou remains.  I had used Yzerman and Blake, as examples of competent executives, being given an opportunity to succeed by their non meddling owners vs the Spoilers under Lowe & Buffalo under Botterill.  

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@AnthonyG No disrespect intended, but I get the history lessen and totally disagree with his and your analysis

 

IMO, and there are many GM's in the league to this day, to prove me right

 

You build through the draft and fill holes through free agency, and not the other way around, or by taking short cuts and in the Cap world, ELC's are king, as they average down your average cap hit..............this is something that you gloss over.

 

If you look at the recent history of Vancouver....we had 2 blips....one in 2014-2015, where we ended up 8th OA and really last year, when we went on the run, but still ended up out of the playoffs...................this is not the image of a perennial playoff team............ and again we never attempted to address our RHD problem, created when we let Tanev walk.......Forgot about our playoff run in 2020...sorry!

 

We are short 2 NHL quality NHL Dman, compared to other top 10 teams. We have known that since before we drafted Juolevi, and which is why we drafted Juolevi

 

This "rebuild" has been down ass backwards, especially compared to LA, Ottawa, and New Jersey or even Carolina not that long ago.

 

IMO, we have had an over zealous owner, who has hired yes GM's the past 10 years, and our scouting staff, both pro and amateur has been sub par. You and I could have done a potato draft and picked Pettersson and Hughes.

 

I hate these last 10 years............too much player over team for me!

 

People do not seem to get it!

 

Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Hull, Espo, Park, Rattelle, Dionne, Shutt, Chara, Tzapuke, Linden, Bure, Luongo, etc have all been fan favorites or have walked from their Drafting teams. Yet, we could not see it clear to move Hank and Danny, and Edler, all of whom would have given us amazing returns, which would have set us up for years...including these years!

 

Imagine where we would have drafted in 2013/2014/2015 is we would not have had them..........which was the only reason we even looked competitive. 

 

The team has been flawed ever since after Burke was GM.....................no plan!

 

 

Great points Janis!

 

I'd say since Nonis.   He wasn't willing to give up Kesler and Edler to bring in Richards for one last hurrah with Naslund.    Luongo was of course massive for us.   As was his first draft, a top five all-time for us.    He had a plan and was executing it well enough. 

 

MG.   Well Nonis had to wait for all of Burke's cap was gone, but was canned just before we got to see what he'd do with it (and really i didn't understand what he did wrong to deserve getting fired, guy should get a medal for not doing that deal if not in the ROH as a builder, same as Burke)..

 

You could tell back then with Luongo and a stable of young blood making a mark (all drafted by Burke and Nonis) that good things were about to happen.   MG first move???!! Total Richards move, that had tons of consequences... including no cup run because the rest would of never happened... he brings in Sundin, his old client, about to retire and offers him the max, 20 million, virtually ALL that cap on ONE old former great player.    That would have scuttled that team before it even had a chance, the best thing Sundin did for us, was not signing that deal.    Exactly one thing i've found on the media about him helping the Sedins get to the next level "just don't worry about it and play the games like they are regular season ones".    That's almost verbatim, a comment on how to deal with the post season, and sure maybe that settled them down.   Thank god he and we and Sundin dodged that bullet!   And apologies ahead of time if that's offensive.    But truly feel it's team first and we dodged a bullet.   And happy for any real or imagined help he gave our guys. 

 

Not slagging on him, he was a great player and liked his half season with us (especially that he was so honourable and didn't take the fat Messier like pay day).    Naslund made dozens of compliments about Messier as an aside - not one sound bite - that writers made into folklore, but dozens of comments on how Messier helped him get to the next level, but that's never brought up.    But am slagging on the fact he went there in the first place.    Sedins didn't explode because Sundin was in the locker room for 60 or so games.   They were already good players about to enter their primes.   Naslund was the best or one of the best LW's in the league for five years.   Playing in Messier's line during his formative years, and often said how much that helped him grow as a player.  But we won't talk about that because it's Messier and we hate him lol.   Funny how emotions and feelings blur reality isn't it? 

 

Love your trade proposals.   Keep it up.  And agree, if MG didn't re-sign the Sedins at 33 for even more cap percentage then their previous deal (21.8% vs 21.5ish), a tank would have been on in full force.   Guys like Hansen, Burrows and Bieksa who still had good value, probably waive earlier because they were driven players who wanted to win a cup.   All 3 went to teams who just about went to the final (OTT), or were considered contenders (ANA/SJ).   Edler was eventually not re-signed and went to the highest bidder, good on him for his bank account.   Not a contender though who i'm sure would have made room for him.  

 

Ugh.   At least we have memories.   And well the Sedins are so entrenched in our teams lore and it's so rare to have players that loyal these days can't complain too much.   But as far as the last decade goes, you're 100% right, it's all connected.    And if we want to as fans see a cup won in our lifetimes, we have to be willing to see these guys go when the time is right.   Even Linden got traded.   And well everything since is a result of that trade.   The  CLUB takes priority over sentiment.  Or at least should be. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by IBatch

[ShawnAntoski]

6 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

"Potential" lol "poh-ten-shull" there is nothing guaranteed about that. Also every pair breaks down when pressured. Myers has 15 giveaways and 12 takeaways. So to anyone calling him a floater, think again, he battles and gets the puck back in the corners. 5 less takeaways than Hughes. OEL has 4 TKA and 14GVA. Hedman has 28 GVA, so is he overrated? He has 1 less giveaway than Myers and OEL combined.  

 

What placed Myers-OEL in the top 10 was - high danger chances allowed, scoring chances against, HDGA, oiSV% and pretty much everything to do with defense that makes a goalies job easy. combined they allow the fewest chances and even fewer high danger chances. Our goalies have a .940sv% when they are together at 5v5. Thatcher Demko has struggled and that is no secret. So I actually spoke to Brad Shaw last year at a practice, him and Schenn did a Q&A with fans and I asked him - "what was the difference on special teams between the start of the year and near the end of the year, in the beginning special teams were losing us games and now they are winning us games"

This was Brad Shaw's answer "This is the first time I've ever seen this, but I am the 3rd PK coach this season. But ultimtately our best PKers were not out best PKers and by that I mean goaltending." He went on a little longer and just spoke about finding pairings etc that worked and just minor details on PK.

 

Draft position is due to standings? How are we fixated on drafting there when we have no choice? I dont quite understand that part? Idk if you meant something else?

 

Can you tell me what JR's impact was on the back-to-back cups? How much of that work was his own and how much did he inherit? Cuz I can tell ya it wasnt much. Plus he threw away the decade for Pittsburgh. When Malkin and Crosby are coming to and end of their careers, PIT is going to need another Malkin and Crosby to get them out of hell.

 

You're saying 3 years is too soon for JR to perform miracles when he has Hughes, Pettersson, Demko, Horvat, Boeser, Miller, Garland, Schenn to work with, all are tradeable and all have value, some way more than others,these were all his gifts from Benning, along with some prospects in the cupboards.. So 3 years with that many assets is too short of time. But 7 years 6 months and 14 days was way too long for Benning who had..............................what to work with? Kesler with full control over his final destination? The twins which are immovable? Bieksa, Hamhuis, Hansen, Burrows, all well past their best before date and most of them didnt even last another 2 years? Zero prospects, a flattened cap out of the blue, a cap recapture penalty, 2 expansion drafts.... Like jesus man the guy was fighting a losing battle regardless. T JR and PA have targeted forwards, when they publicly stated our defence needs work. Wut? "Our goalies stood on their head....defence was allowing too much.... hmmmm LETS GET MORE FORWARDS!"

 

I did mention Horvat and Kuzmenko, Bear is not as high of a priority, he's an RFA, so I didnt mention him.

 

The "miracle" would have been to move Miller and Boeser. WOAH a miracle almost 15mil opened up right there, a little rise in the cap next season... Problem solved, PLUS all the cost-controlled youth you would have gotten back in a Miller and Boeser trade. Still not enough room? See ya later Pearson. Goodbye Garland. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Hoglander makes Garland redundant, the idiocy to not see that is baffling. Hoglander is younger, he's much stronger and a better skater than Garland on top of that, just as shifty. 22 years old versus turning 27 next year. Another missed opportunity to capitalize on max value of a player. Hoglander has exactly the same amount of goals and 1 less assist at 5v5 as Garland right now. 

 

As for playoffs... I think was you that mentioned we got lowballed on the offer for JT Miller? How much do you think NYR, if true, regrets not acquiring Miller at the TDL. They were held to 1 goal in their final 3 games of the ECF, they had the #1 goalie in the league doing his part, but no one could score for him. He held the Bolts to 2-3 goals in each game that series. TBL only scored 4 goals once and that was with an empty netter. Other than that, they had everything going for them, except a guy like JT Miller who would have been a difference maker in that series and in the finals. It would have been such a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things to pay 2 1sts pick and a prospect and a young roster player for JT Miller at the TDL.They likely would have gone on to win the cup with the Vezina winner and last years Norris winner. 

 

Also by the time you get to the finals, it comes down to goaltending and healthy bodies. You can be as skilled as you want, if you're banged up, you're fighting an uphill battle. If your goalie is shakey, good luck, it aint happenin for ya.

 

 

Drop the Bruins controversy. Vancouver was HEAVILY injured. Forget the reffs, because they gave us 8 f***ing powerplays in game 3, we went 0/8 gave up a shorty and Boston went 2/4 on the PP. Overall Vancouver had more powerplays, more shots, more hits, more faceoff wins, more scoring chances, LITERALLY EVERYTHING, except goals, the only thing that mattered. It came down to Tim F***ing Thomas and Roberto Luongo, 8 goals against Thomas in 7 games and that wasn't for a lack of effort or chances, he was the better goaltender, by a LARGE margin. Lou let in 23 goals I think it was? almost 3x more. Even in game 7, we had more power plays, albeit only 2PPs to their 1. Game 4 in Boston, we had 6PPs to their 4... Both teams went 0 on the PP.

Vancouver was not healthy, the list of injuries, missing players etc, heavily outweight Horton and Lucic's broken toe. Stop blaming the f***ing league, we lost. Fair and square. Luongo sh*t the bed. He got eaten alive in Boston and we couldnt beat Thomas once on 37 shots in game 7, Boston won 4-0 and only registered 21 shots. I F***ing hate Boston, but they won fair and square end of story. as for '94 I was too young to comment on that.

You should had make your response smaller but my posts, had obviously touched a nerve - hence, the long respond.  We can agree to disagree on OEL & Myers and I am glad, there is one more year left on Myers. Analytics might support your argument(s): that both are solid - but I am still not convinced cause both are prone to making a mistake, at the wrong time.  Plus, I believe the loss of Shaw was big loss to the defence.  Perhaps, if both were not being paid 13 plus in cap, then perhaps we can agree on their effectiveness and role.

 

If you still can't see the current mess, was mainly due to the shortsightedess of Aquaman and his various FO, then keep enjoying the regular season wins cause the current team, at best will be a playoff fodder; and the Wild game clearly, demonstrated it vs the winning streak against, the other bottom feeders.  

 

As for 2011, I also watched the 94 run and it was obvious both times the league favored the Rags in 94 and the Bruins in 11.  I can agree, the Canucks had their chances and that the ultimate difference was between the pipes - but dont be naive: that the Zebras unwillingness, to call an obvious infraction at crucial times, in a game - did'nt have an effect on the outcome cause the Bruins were just getting nastier, as the games went on and the Canucks had no one left to respond, due mainly to injuries.   I had been in your shoe, as a fan and I can understand.  Right now, I just have a few decades, of watching the Canucks, over you and I am still a fan of the brand - just not a fan of the current owners' ever retooling strategies.  Anyways, I can tell you are a big fan and I enjoyed the hockey discussion but we are just in different stages of our fandom.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski