A Retrospective Draft Fantasy Thread

[Echo Park]

Hello!

 

I apologize that this is another "the Canucks aren't good at drafting or developing" thread. We all know it, and it's sad. I do not expect any traction with this post, and it has potentially been done before. If so, by all means, lock it up.

 

I don't post much, but this thought has been rattling around my brain for a while: what if the Canucks just took the next best player in the draft?

• The definition of this in my head is a little hazy, so I decided it meant the next player with either 100 games played, or with more games played/points than the Canucks draft pick.
• The player had to be less than 30 picks down the draft, or before the next Canucks pick

 

Additionally, what if the Canucks drafted the best player in that draft position?

• By "the best" I mean, the best player in the next 30 picks, or between Canucks picks, whichever is shorter. 

 

I decided to look at the drafts from 2010 to 2017 as more recent drafts are hard to use the wonderful power of hindsight on. I only used the picks that the Canucks actually made and I am no going to provide much, if any analysis. Just going to provide the lists of players that could have been. 

 

Why did I do this? Because, like most Canucks fans I have a painful obsession about "what could have been." I like to inflict frustration on myself (and in this case, others) over things I have zero control over. So, have a happy read, dream about what could have been, and suffer with the reality that is.

 

2010 Draft

Ah, doesn't this draft bring you back? The Canucks had 5 picks and none in the first 3 rounds. Only 1 game was played by their drafted players (Alex Friesen). Many fans I recall were hoping the Canucks were going to draft the Vancouver Giant Brendan Gallager, but alas we did not. The Canucks certain had opportunities to draft come great players at their picks. Could you imagine having Gallager and Stone? 

 

2011 Draft

The Canucks had a TON of draft picks this year (8 in total) but sadly were not able to capitalize on them. Look at that list of next-best players! Not to mention the list of "best" players.

Could you imagine having drafted Rackell and Gaudreau? 

 

2012 Draft

Another draft with only a few picks. We even got a pretty good player in Ben Hutton in the 5th round. There were not a lot of amazing players for the Canucks to take at their picks but any combination of Skjei, Pearson, and Severson would have changed the future of the team significantly. 

 

2013 Draft

More pick = more success right? Well the Cory Schnieder trade really paid off, because the Canucks selected the best player possible at pick number 9 (as noted by italics). This is a draft that the Canucks tried to restock the defence cupboard and missed on so many quality players, with Weeger, Shea Theodore, and Will Butcher being the most notable. 

Further, I recall watching the Portland Winterhawks play and was convinced the Bjorkstrand was going to be a good NHL'er, so I am both happy and sad to see him here. 

 

2014 Draft

The much maligned 2014 draft has some big misses. However, the Canucks chose the "best" player at their pick TWICE; those being Thatcher Demko and Gustav Forsling. This is by far the best draft performance up to this point with over 1200 games played and over 440 points. Unfortunately, they missed Pasternak by 1 pick. And, I recall many fans wanted Nylander (or Ehlers) instead of Virtanen (myself included). Again, things could have been SO. MUCH. BETTER.

 

2015 Draft

Another draft where we hit on a couple picks, we almost got a Calder trophy out of it. However, we missed on some good depth players, again. 

 

2016 Draft

Oh no, don't look. We could have drafted Tkachuk and Fox with our first 2 picks. The bottom of the draft nobody hit on players, so the Canucks picks weren't bad per se. 

At this point I had to make the cut off for the "next-best" player 50 games rather than 100 due to the lack of players. 

 

2017 Draft

The last one to look at. Well, this one is looking pretty good so far, we picked the best player in EP40 and 4 other players have plated in the NHL thus far. However, the player fans hoped the Canucks would draft instead of Kole Lind - Nic Hague, has turned out pretty well. Again, some good, young depth could have been drafted, but it wasn't. 

At this point I had to make the cut off for the "next-best" player 20 games rather than 50 due to the lack of players. 

 

Okay, so the Canucks drafted 51 players over 8 years, enough to fill out a whole roster and max out the amount of contract they are allowed to hand out.

 

Now I absolutely do not think any team should 100% on their picks, and I understand that what I have done is a ridiculous fantasy. I just like to sit in anguish thinking about what could have been. 

 

Now, I leave it up to you to think about what could have been. What is the best roster you could make out of the 2 best-case scenario drafts? 

 

Comments, questions, and concerns are welcome. 

[Nucksfollower1983]

Pineapple belongs on pizza!

[Ted Lasso]

Thanks for the post. Would have loved to have drafted Theodore.

 

As has been said many times though, we never know how any of these players would have developed differently under different coaches and systems. 
 

This mostly makes me anticipate making all of our picks this year, and hope that our player development staff is capable of playing the long game with talent. 
 

 

[Tanti9]

2 hours ago, Echo Park said:

Hello!

 

I apologize that this is another "the Canucks aren't good at drafting or developing" thread. We all know it, and it's sad. I do not expect any traction with this post, and it has potentially been done before. If so, by all means, lock it up.

 

I don't post much, but this thought has been rattling around my brain for a while: what if the Canucks just took the next best player in the draft?

• The definition of this in my head is a little hazy, so I decided it meant the next player with either 100 games played, or with more games played/points than the Canucks draft pick.
• The player had to be less than 30 picks down the draft, or before the next Canucks pick

 

Additionally, what if the Canucks drafted the best player in that draft position?

• By "the best" I mean, the best player in the next 30 picks, or between Canucks picks, whichever is shorter. 

 

I decided to look at the drafts from 2010 to 2017 as more recent drafts are hard to use the wonderful power of hindsight on. I only used the picks that the Canucks actually made and I am no going to provide much, if any analysis. Just going to provide the lists of players that could have been. 

 

Why did I do this? Because, like most Canucks fans I have a painful obsession about "what could have been." I like to inflict frustration on myself (and in this case, others) over things I have zero control over. So, have a happy read, dream about what could have been, and suffer with the reality that is.

 

2010 Draft

Ah, doesn't this draft bring you back? The Canucks had 5 picks and none in the first 3 rounds. Only 1 game was played by their drafted players (Alex Friesen). Many fans I recall were hoping the Canucks were going to draft the Vancouver Giant Brendan Gallager, but alas we did not. The Canucks certain had opportunities to draft come great players at their picks. Could you imagine having Gallager and Stone? 

 

2011 Draft

The Canucks had a TON of draft picks this year (8 in total) but sadly were not able to capitalize on them. Look at that list of next-best players! Not to mention the list of "best" players.

Could you imagine having drafted Rackell and Gaudreau? 

 

2012 Draft

Another draft with only a few picks. We even got a pretty good player in Ben Hutton in the 5th round. There were not a lot of amazing players for the Canucks to take at their picks but any combination of Skjei, Pearson, and Severson would have changed the future of the team significantly. 

 

2013 Draft

More pick = more success right? Well the Cory Schnieder trade really paid off, because the Canucks selected the best player possible at pick number 9 (as noted by italics). This is a draft that the Canucks tried to restock the defence cupboard and missed on so many quality players, with Weeger, Shea Theodore, and Will Butcher being the most notable. 

Further, I recall watching the Portland Winterhawks play and was convinced the Bjorkstrand was going to be a good NHL'er, so I am both happy and sad to see him here. 

 

2014 Draft

The much maligned 2014 draft has some big misses. However, the Canucks chose the "best" player at their pick TWICE; those being Thatcher Demko and Gustav Forsling. This is by far the best draft performance up to this point with over 1200 games played and over 440 points. Unfortunately, they missed Pasternak by 1 pick. And, I recall many fans wanted Nylander (or Ehlers) instead of Virtanen (myself included). Again, things could have been SO. MUCH. BETTER.

 

2015 Draft

Another draft where we hit on a couple picks, we almost got a Calder trophy out of it. However, we missed on some good depth players, again. 

 

2016 Draft

Oh no, don't look. We could have drafted Tkachuk and Fox with our first 2 picks. The bottom of the draft nobody hit on players, so the Canucks picks weren't bad per se. 

At this point I had to make the cut off for the "next-best" player 50 games rather than 100 due to the lack of players. 

 

2017 Draft

The last one to look at. Well, this one is looking pretty good so far, we picked the best player in EP40 and 4 other players have plated in the NHL thus far. However, the player fans hoped the Canucks would draft instead of Kole Lind - Nic Hague, has turned out pretty well. Again, some good, young depth could have been drafted, but it wasn't. 

At this point I had to make the cut off for the "next-best" player 20 games rather than 50 due to the lack of players. 

 

Okay, so the Canucks drafted 51 players over 8 years, enough to fill out a whole roster and max out the amount of contract they are allowed to hand out.

 

Now I absolutely do not think any team should 100% on their picks, and I understand that what I have done is a ridiculous fantasy. I just like to sit in anguish thinking about what could have been. 

 

Now, I leave it up to you to think about what could have been. What is the best roster you could make out of the 2 best-case scenario drafts? 

 

Comments, questions, and concerns are welcome. 

So basically what you're saying is, the Canucks need to go ask the team behind them who they are taking, and take that player instead of their own pick lol

[Tanti9]

15 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Thanks for the post. Would have loved to have drafted Theodore.

 

As has been said many times though, we never know how any of these players would have developed differently under different coaches and systems. 
 

This mostly makes me anticipate making all of our picks this year, and hope that our player development staff is capable of playing the long game with talent. 
 

 

There's a guy on hockey forums who does this thing called the potato rankings. Basically its as simple as taking the highest scoring players (slightly adjusting for leagues) and drafting them.

 

Under something that simple, teams would build dynasties. Yes alot of misses but many more hits. Basically, you can't teach talent and points suggest talent,

It seems scouts and gm's overthink and get in their own way.

 

It was an interesting analysis, I wish I could find it again.

[Ted Lasso]

7 minutes ago, Tanti9 said:

There's a guy on hockey forums who does this thing called the potato rankings. Basically its as simple as taking the highest scoring players (slightly adjusting for leagues) and drafting them.

 

Under something that simple, teams would build dynasties. Yes alot of misses but many more hits. Basically, you can't teach talent and points suggest talent,

It seems scouts and gm's overthink and get in their own way.

 

It was an interesting analysis, I wish I could find it again.

Interesting.  Is this it?
 

https://www.getofftheice.com/post/potato-picks

[Echo Park]

16 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

Interesting.  Is this it?
 

https://www.getofftheice.com/post/potato-picks

Oh, I remember this! This is exactly what I wanted to see. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Confucius says an exercise in fertility is pregnant with possibilities!

[IBatch]

Just do some research.   Once you do - then you will likely arrive at a similar conclusion.   MG was a terrible drafter.  Nonis had one amazing draft.   Benning was way better than both (drafting only) but still just a little above average.   As in above where he was drafting (ADP).    It's a little early yet, but as far as GMs go for the Canucks, Milford get the title.   Quin/Burke also had a lot of whiffs.   So did Benning.   Have to wait and see how it plays out.    Benning was above average though.   But not by much. 

[Kevin Biestra]

On 1/1/2023 at 3:42 AM, IBatch said:

Just do some research.   Once you do - then you will likely arrive at a similar conclusion.   MG was a terrible drafter.  Nonis had one amazing draft.   Benning was way better than both (drafting only) but still just a little above average.   As in above where he was drafting (ADP).    It's a little early yet, but as far as GMs go for the Canucks, Milford get the title.   Quin/Burke also had a lot of whiffs.   So did Benning.   Have to wait and see how it plays out.    Benning was above average though.   But not by much. 

 

Canucks 1978 - Bil Derlago (35 goal scorer), Curt Fraser (35 goal scorer), Stan Smyl (number retired), Gerry Minor (decent NHLer)

Canucks 1979 - Rick Vaive (3 x 50 goal scorer), Brent Ashton (>280 goals, >600 points), Dirk Graham (Selke Trophy winner, Hawks captain, >200 goals)

Canucks 1980 - Rick Lanz (50 point defenseman), Marc Crawford, Doug Lidster (60 point defenseman), Patrik Sundstrom (team scoring record holder until Pavel Bure)

Canucks 1981 - Garth Butcher, Wendell Young (decent NHL goalie), Moe Lemay (decent NHL player), Petri Skriko (Canucks scoring leader), Frank Caprice

 

Pretty good four year run.  Missing a bit in terms of a Hall of Fame level first line but absolutely deadly depth thereafter.  And we had already traded for Brodeur in net and/or had previously drafted Glen Hanlon, either of whom would have been able to win a Cup behind a strong team.  Plus they had drafted Murray Bannerman (NHL all star) the same year as Hanlon (1977).  So back it up to 1977 and they are set in net even without Brodeur.

 

Anyway, just drafted from those four years (78-81)...

 

Vaive - Sundstrom - Smyl

Derlago - Skriko - Fraser

Lemay/Minor/Crawford - Graham - Ashton

 

Lidster - Lanz

Butcher - ?

? - ?

 

Young

Caprice

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

1982 to 1984 for the Canucks was pretty god awful at the draft.

 

Michel Petit (1982), Cam Neely (1983) and JJ Daigneault (1984) and then pretty much literally nothing else for the entire three years.

 

And while 1977 gave them two pretty good goalies, it was pretty sad otherwise, missing out on Mike Bossy, Doug Wilson, John Tonelli, Rod Langway, Ron Duguay, etc.  And Vezina winner Pete Peeters was actually picked in the late rounds after most goalies were already taken including our two.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[Fred65]

On 1/1/2023 at 3:42 AM, IBatch said:

Just do some research.   Once you do - then you will likely arrive at a similar conclusion.   MG was a terrible drafter.  Nonis had one amazing draft.   Benning was way better than both (drafting only) but still just a little above average.   As in above where he was drafting (ADP).    It's a little early yet, but as far as GMs go for the Canucks, Milford get the title.   Quin/Burke also had a lot of whiffs.   So did Benning.   Have to wait and see how it plays out.    Benning was above average though.   But not by much. 

Benning generally selected in the top tens. A succesful team drafts in the bottom 5.

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Benning generally selected in the top tens. A succesful team drafts in the bottom 5.

We lost out so badly in the lottery.   We should have drafted in the top five for a period, 2nd when we drafted EP - 3rd when we drafted OJ i think ... QHs think we slipped to 7th that year too.   Instead of drafting an average of 4-5 over a four year period, we drafted 7th.   That said both EP and QHs should end up quite a bit better then their draft slots, and not all top ten picks work out on average your going to miss some, just like EDM did whiffing on Yakupov.   THN ranked the teams using an average of 10 NHL scouts ... over a four year period had us as a plus four while drafting averaging 7th overall at one point...Strength of Demo's-Hughes draft years.    So like drafting 3rd overall instead.    Not that it is great, it's not.    It doesn't consider asset management either.    McAan, Forsling.   TB?  Drafted around 23rd over the same period, but had the 9th best group of 21 and unders (four years of drafting)  - that's incredible drafting.   OTT also drafted very well.    And has been for decades really.    Where's our Stone?   Or Edler even.   Have to go all the way back to Nonis first draft to find an impact player drafted after the second round.    Yikes. 

[Elias Pettersson]

35 minutes ago, IBatch said:

We lost out so badly in the lottery.   We should have drafted in the top five for a period, 2nd when we drafted EP - 3rd when we drafted OJ i think ... QHs think we slipped to 7th that year too.   Instead of drafting an average of 4-5 over a four year period, we drafted 7th.   That said both EP and QHs should end up quite a bit better then their draft slots, and not all top ten picks work out on average your going to miss some, just like EDM did whiffing on Yakupov.   THN ranked the teams using an average of 10 NHL scouts ... over a four year period had us as a plus four while drafting averaging 7th overall at one point...Strength of Demo's-Hughes draft years.    So like drafting 3rd overall instead.    Not that it is great, it's not.    It doesn't consider asset management either.    McAan, Forsling.   TB?  Drafted around 23rd over the same period, but had the 9th best group of 21 and unders (four years of drafting)  - that's incredible drafting.   OTT also drafted very well.    And has been for decades really.    Where's our Stone?   Or Edler even.   Have to go all the way back to Nonis first draft to find an impact player drafted after the second round.    Yikes. 

I think Petey was the guy we were gonna draft whether we had the 2nd pick or the 5th pick.  He was ahead of Makar on our board.  So I think we got our guy regardless.  Nolan Patrick was never an option for us thanks God.

 

At the end of the day we got two top talents in Petey and Hughes in 2017 and 2018.  Petey was top 2 with Makar and I think Hughes is top 4 in his draft along with Dahlin, Tkachuk and Dobson.  I have Hughes ahead of Svechnikov...

[shiznak]

22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think Petey was the guy we were gonna draft whether we had the 2nd pick or the 5th pick.  He was ahead of Makar on our board.  So I think we got our guy regardless.  Nolan Patrick was never an option for us thanks God.

 

At the end of the day we got two top talents in Petey and Hughes in 2017 and 2018.  Petey was top 2 with Makar and I think Hughes is top 4 in his draft along with Dahlin, Tkachuk and Dobson.  I have Hughes ahead of Svechnikov...

They wanted to draft either Heinkanen or Makar, if one of them fell.

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/draft-notebook-if-makar-was-available-canucks-could-have-been-sweating

Quote

A day before the draft, Benning said this: “Any time you can get a high-end offensive defenceman in today’s game who drives the play for your team, that’s something we’re going to look at.”

After the first round he added this if Makar had been available: “That would have been a hard decision with his mobility, but we kind of had a feeling that both defencemen (Miro Heiskanen at No. 3 to Dallas and Makar at No. 4 to Colorado) would be gone. We were checking out a couple of guys and Pettersson was the one we wanted.”

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by shiznak