Canucks Management "NO-SHOW's" at STH/Memebers only meeting.

[Dazzle]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:20 AM, kanucks25 said:

Personally, I blame Gillis.

He really does deserve a lot more blame.

 

There's been rumours that he approached the owners to rebuild after 2011, which would've been a good thing if true. That being said, his drafting and development part of his regime has not been kind to this franchise. People say he was focused on winning, which was fine. However, with the picks that he DID have, he completely missed with them. Yes, he did have 2nd rounders, which he either traded them away or threw them to the fire with a pick like Alexandre Mallet, an overager who was not expected to be drafted by scouts in the 2nd round.

To further drive home the point, the lack of successful prospects from Gillis' tenure led to an empty prospect pool because no young players were coming up. No goaltenders and defenseman (aside from Hutton) were successfully drafted. Yikes. These players could've allowed the Canucks to trade away vet players for picks, which in turn would help with the future.

All we ended up doing was buying, buying, and buying. No wonder why our prospect pool was so bare. Gillis whiffed on all of his picks, with exception to Horvat, Hodgson, Hutton, and Connauton (never played with the Canucks). We lacked depth because of these missing picks. Imagine if we had picked up someone in the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds that we could've used...

 

It's a little bit ironic that Gillis was trying to speed up the rebuild, which was an absolutely terrible strategy, which Benning then repeated.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/prospect-profile-alexandre-mallet

 

Scouts noted that Mallet was a powerful skater, but lacked top six potential. Jesus. You don't pick this kind of player with your top pick of that year. The fact that Gilman tried to justify this pick means that he had fault in this too.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Dazzle

[ShawnAntoski]

24 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

He really does deserve a lot more blame.

 

There's been rumours that he approached the owners to rebuild after 2011, which would've been a good thing if true. That being said, his drafting and development part of his regime has not been kind to this franchise. People say he was focused on winning, which was fine. However, with the picks that he DID have, he completely missed with them. Yes, he did have 2nd rounders, which he either traded them away or threw them to the fire with a pick like Alexandre Mallet, an overager who was not expected to be drafted by scouts in the 2nd round.

To further drive home the point, the lack of successful prospects from Gillis' tenure led to an empty prospect pool because no young players were coming up. No goaltenders and defenseman (aside from Hutton) were successfully drafted. Yikes. These players could've allowed the Canucks to trade away vet players for picks, which in turn would help with the future.

All we ended up doing was buying, buying, and buying. No wonder why our prospect pool was so bare. Gillis whiffed on all of his picks, with exception to Horvat, Hodgson, Hutton, and Connauton (never played with the Canucks). We lacked depth because of these missing picks. Imagine if we had picked up someone in the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds that we could've used...

 

It's a little bit ironic that Gillis was trying to speed up the rebuild, which was an absolutely terrible strategy, which Benning then repeated.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/prospect-profile-alexandre-mallet

 

Scouts noted that Mallet was a powerful skater, but lacked top six potential. Jesus. You don't pick this kind of player with your top pick of that year. The fact that Gilman tried to justify this pick means that he had fault in this too.

I remember Gillis, in the radio explaining his reasons to expedite, the drafting & development process by drafting overagers - with the assumption that they are physically, closer to the NHL. But like all the incompetent or inexperienced and handcuffed Executives, that Francesco prefers: Gillis forgot the developmental part.  The incompetence, is so bad that the results we are CURRENTLY watching, is the only conclusion.  

 

Imo, the young guns will be the real cost of the mess, whilst they are stuck ever retooling, with the untradeables: Miller & OEL.  Based on what I had seen in the past decade, I am expecting more shortsighted moves for futures and the current FO, will double down despite what they are saying .

Edited January 14, 2023 by ShawnAntoski

[Dazzle]

3 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

I remember Gillis, in the radio explaining his reasons to expedite, the drafting & development process by drafting overagers - with the assumption that they are physically, closer to the NHL. But like all the incompetent or inexperienced and handcuffed Executives, that Francesco prefers: Gillis forgot the developmental part.  The incompetence, is so bad that the results we are CURRENTLY watching, is the only conclusion.  

 

Imo, the young guns will be the real cost of the mess, whilst they are stuck ever retooling, with the untradeables: Miller & OEL.  Based on what I had seen in the past decade, I am expecting more shortsighted moves for futures and the current FO, will double down despite what they are saying .

Gillis was romanticized for the playoff runs. We can acknowledge that he made important moves to improve the team. He just completely bankrupted the future in the process.

 

And the sad thing is, people will make excuses for poor draft picks. That result weren't a byproduct of a winning team. It was just Gillis being exceptionally bad at one crucial part of his job - overseeing the future of the team.

People say "well, it was 8-10 years ago". Guess what? Players that were picked under his regime SHOULD HAVE been making a lot of headway on this roster. Maybe we would've signed fewer UFAs, or given us more leverage in other trades because of redundancy. We'll never know.

We are at the stage where we HAVE to start a rebuild because we don't have a choice.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Dazzle

[ShawnAntoski]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Gillis was romanticized for the playoff runs. We can acknowledge that he made important moves to improve the team. He just completely bankrupted the future in the process.

 

And the sad thing is, people will make excuses for poor draft picks. That result weren't a byproduct of a winning team. It was just Gillis being exceptionally bad at one crucial part of his job - overseeing the future of the team.

People say "well, it was 8-10 years ago". Guess what? Players that were picked under his regime SHOULD HAVE been making a lot of headway on this roster. Maybe we would've signed fewer UFAs, or given us more leverage in other trades because of redundancy. We'll never know.

We are at the stage where we HAVE to start a rebuild because we don't have a choice.

With hindsight, both Gillis & JR have something in common: (1) they both inherited a roster that someone else build up, through the draft, (2) they both prefer to build up, their roster through trades & FA.  Anyways, Gillis is gone but Francesco is still here and the rise to the middle will continue cause a regular season success, is still enough to fill the seats...

Edited January 15, 2023 by ShawnAntoski

[DS4quality]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:33 PM, kilgore said:

 

What a load of #$%&

 

"One problem is the lack of patience from, cough, fans" 

Its been 52 freakin years Surf. I've been a loyal fan for about 30 of those years. Such a BS meme perpetrated mostly by Vancouver sports media. 

 

For one, its not up to the fans to hire the front office, the scouts, the coaches or trade for players.  Its also not the fans that SHOULD because they do not have the connections or positions, experience, and are not payed big bucks to do that job.  Why do I have to state the obvious?  But all that means is ......so what if some fans do have an unreasonable "lack of patience"?  Its not going to change anything so why dwell on those fans?  The media loves to say that to get a rise, but if there are any pro Aqua/Benning visionaries of "just get into the playoffs and anything can happen" fans left they are dwindling fast.

 

The most important thing is improving the team.  Whining about fans whining is like whining about a child's whining about going to the dentist to fix an aching tooth.  You as a parent know that in the end, the kid will be happy and not whining sooner if you grit your teeth and get er done. The dumbest thing to do is to decide  not to go the dentist with your kid based purely on that your kid is whining too much about it.  And most kids are smart and don't whine much because  they know that the short term pain at the dentist will result in long term pain free gain.  You don't run the town dentist out of town because a few of the kids are crying about what he does for a living.  Just like most fans in Vancouver are smart enough to know, especially in hindsight, that a rebuild should have been done during the first years of Bennings tenure.  And if it had been done, who would care today, that there were some fans crying about losing their favorite player back then?  Continually blaming whiny fans for inaction by management takes them off the hook, when its they who are precisely the ones who are the most responsible for turning this team around and should feel pressure.

 

But besides that fact, there may be a lack of patience from Canucks fans, but its not a lack of patience in being able to watch a post season Canucks game, and that they will pout if they have to watch draft prospects play instead of veterans for a few years. Its a lack of patience for a Plan!  And if that plan is to strip the team down and rebuild with an eye towards a 5 year road to contention....guess what? most real fans will be good with that. Or at the very least accept it.

 

Yes...fans were worried that Miller would walk during last season. An American born player who hit 99 points for us, and who looked to be a real leader in the dressing room according to the coach.  Pretty rich in hindsight to criticize fans for being supportive of Miller and worried about the team without him here.  And yes Captain Obvious, many are unhappy with the Miller signing now, after our disastrous start, when it doesn't look good for the team especially if we are going into a rebuild phase.  What do you expect? Fans don't have a crystal ball.

 

Whining about the media is like whining about fans whining about other fans

[RU SERIOUS]

10 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

With hindsight, both Gillis & JR have something in common: (1) they both inherited a roster that someone else build up, through the draft, (2) they both prefer to build up, their roster through trades & FA.  Anyways, Gillis is gone but Francesco is still here and the rise to the middle will continue cause a regular season success, is still enough to fill the seats...

We don't even have regular season sucess to "Raw-Raw" about anymore. This team is tied for 26/27th spot and now has a 0.9 % chance of making the playoffs and it's only mid season!

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

We don't even have regular season sucess to "Raw-Raw" about anymore. This team is tied for 26/27th spot and now has a 0.9 % chance of making the playoffs and it's only mid season!

The seats are still MOSTLY being filled. Just read some of the posters, in the forum publicly pledging their loyalty despite the mess.  I never understood why it was neccessary to post, such a thing.  Like it was something special ?

 

Basically, the ever retooling endeavor is still profitable

Edited January 15, 2023 by ShawnAntoski

[alt kilgore]

2 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

The seats are still MOSTLY being filled. Just read some of the posters, in the forum publicly pledging their loyalty despite the mess.  I never understood why it was neccessary to post, such a thing.  Like it was something special ?

 

Basically, the ever retooling endeavor is still profitable

Not to mention that the Aquilinis bought the Canucks for about 250,000,000.  Its now worth north of 1 billion.  So  as long as they even just break even with ticket sales,  let alone vendors, cut of the merch, other events in the building, they are still adding a nice profit to their portfolio.

 

That's why they don't have to care about fans. And why Francesco thought of the Canucks as his own personal toy to f with as he chose. Playoffs are fun, so I'm going to only hire GMs that promise me to do whatever it takes to fast track MY team into the playoffs every year and i can be King of the city for a few weeks.  Trade prospects, and 1st rounders, and overpay FAs to come here. How can it not work?   So easy right???

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by kilgore

[RU SERIOUS]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

Not to mention that the Aquilinis bought the Canucks for about 250,000,000.  Its now worth north of 1 billion.  So  as long as they even just break even with ticket sales,  let alone vendors, cut of the merch, other events in the building, they are still adding a nice profit to their portfolio.

 

That's why they don't have to care about fans. And why Francesco thought of the Canucks as his own personal toy to f with as he chose. Playoffs are fun, so I'm going to only hire GMs that promise me to do whatever it takes to fast track MY team into the playoffs every year and i can be King of the city for a few weeks.  Trade prospects, and 1st rounders, and overpay FAs to come here. How can it not work?   So easy right???

 

 

You make too much sense to ever get a job as GM for Frankies toy.  I hate to tell you but you might be stuck in the real world with thinking like that!  Sorry!

[Ballisticsports.]

On 1/14/2023 at 9:17 AM, Dazzle said:

He really does deserve a lot more blame.

 

There's been rumours that he approached the owners to rebuild after 2011, which would've been a good thing if true. That being said, his drafting and development part of his regime has not been kind to this franchise. People say he was focused on winning, which was fine. However, with the picks that he DID have, he completely missed with them. Yes, he did have 2nd rounders, which he either traded them away or threw them to the fire with a pick like Alexandre Mallet, an overager who was not expected to be drafted by scouts in the 2nd round.

To further drive home the point, the lack of successful prospects from Gillis' tenure led to an empty prospect pool because no young players were coming up. No goaltenders and defenseman (aside from Hutton) were successfully drafted. Yikes. These players could've allowed the Canucks to trade away vet players for picks, which in turn would help with the future.

All we ended up doing was buying, buying, and buying. No wonder why our prospect pool was so bare. Gillis whiffed on all of his picks, with exception to Horvat, Hodgson, Hutton, and Connauton (never played with the Canucks). We lacked depth because of these missing picks. Imagine if we had picked up someone in the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds that we could've used...

 

It's a little bit ironic that Gillis was trying to speed up the rebuild, which was an absolutely terrible strategy, which Benning then repeated.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/prospect-profile-alexandre-mallet

 

Scouts noted that Mallet was a powerful skater, but lacked top six potential. Jesus. You don't pick this kind of player with your top pick of that year. The fact that Gilman tried to justify this pick means that he had fault in this too.

I find it had to believe people heralding our past GM's as Guru's

They actually have people  that do the scouting

They are here to MANAGE the team

If you want to go by MANAGING the team results, out of the last two GM's

One almost managed to bring us a cup

One managed to keep us at the bottom of the league longer than any Canuck Gm and where we will be for a few more it looks like

 

Odd you use a 57TH pick in Mallet as your statement?

Let's compare how they Managed to keep picks, one going for the win, one at the bottom (to Mallets position)

 

2008 - a 9 and 41 pick

2009 -  22 and 53

2010 -  None

2011 -  29

2012 -  26, 57 (Mallet)

2013 - 9, 24

 

I can see why a team with late (few) picks and going in did as poorly as they did drafting

 

2014 - 6, 24, 35  (Picks kept from previous regime)

2015 - 23  (why only 1)?

2016 - 5   (why only 1)?

2017 - 5, 33, 55

2018 - 7, 37

2019 - 10, 40

2020 - none !!  (on a team that should be building)

2021 - 41 (one only again)?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

2022 -  15  (saved only 1 for this management and bad team)

 

Why is such a bad team without picks? 

(Even expansion teams don't get superstars and do quite well constructing a team without super expensive established veterans)

 

General MANAGING should be based on the team you construct based with the assets you have, ones you acquire, one you trade, All coaches you hire, scouts who you trust, develop your players, expectations of your players treat your players, which players you want to pay  and length plus how much etc

A manager doesn't just do one thing and you base his job on that, he has staff and it is now he manages all  that staff

 

Until a GM constructs a Stanley Cup team, what are we boasting about?

We have the worst NHL team winning % in the NHL history besides Arizona (who shouldn't even be in the League),  despite us 2 winning President Cup teams

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Ballisticsports.

[Warhippy]

29 minutes ago, Ballisticsports. said:

I find it had to believe people heralding our past GM's as Guru's

They actually have people  that do the scouting

They are to MANAGE the team

If you want to go by MANAGING the team results, out of the lasr two GM's

One almost managed to bring us a cup

One managed to keep us at the bottom of the league longer than any Gm and where we will be for a few more it looks like

 

Odd you use a 57TH pick in Mallet as your statement?

Let's compare how they Managed to keep picks, one going for the win, one at the bottom (to Mallets position)

 

2008 - a 9 and 41 pick

2009 -  22 and 53

2010 -  None

2011 -  29

2012 -  26,57 (Mallet)

2013 - 9, 24

 

I can see why a team with late (few) picks and going in did as poorly as they did drafting

 

2014 - 6,24,35  (Picks kept from previous regime)

2015 - 23  (why only 1)?

2016 - 5   (why only 1)?

2017 - 5,33,55

2018 - 7,37

2019 - 10,40

2020 - none !!  (on a team that should be building)

2021 - 41 (one only again)?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

2022 -  15  (only 1 for this management and bad team)

 

Why is such a bad team without picks? 

(Even expansion teams don't get superstars and do quite well constructing a team without super expensive established veterans)

 

General MANAGING should be based on the team you construct based with the assets you have, ones you acquire, one you trade, All coaches you hire, scouts who you trust, develop your players, expectations of your players treat your players, which players you want to pay  and length plus how much etc

A manager doesn't just do one thing and you base his job on that, he has staff and it is now he manages all  that staff

 

Until a GM constructs a Stanley Cup team, what are we boasting about?

We have the worst NHL team winning % in the NHL history besides Arizona (who shouldn't even be in the League),  despite us 2 winning President Cup teams