[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Tampa Bay Lightning | Jan. 12, 2023

[lmm]

41 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

That's reasonable. Just another thing we've screwed up. Would Schenn be better? Maybe but he wouldn't even be on the ice on a good team or the last minutes. Don't see OEL punching out anyone. Miller .. sure, what a freaking nightmare that would be. Maybe Boeser would be better, or Hughes? 

that is exactly why we need to rebuild

[lmm]

2 minutes ago, NHTyrany said:

If you think establishing a team toughness identity is synonymous with how Philly once was, you are mistaken. Enough with the turning the other cheek and I don't think they would become poor hockey players. It's all about doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons. It's not game 7 we are talking about...

that is why I never liked Derek Dorsett

that guy would take every fight, even if it was because the Canucks were up 3-0 and the other team needed a lift

I like MaEwen I remember a couple of years ago, that exact situation, and he said no, not this time

 

remember that game earlier in Seattle when Miller and Schenn both got in fights with Kraken defensemen

then Bo asks a 3rd D to dance

the guy says no, so his team doesn't play for 5 or 15 minutes with 3 D

 

Dorsett could never figure that out

[lmm]

20 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

You may do this but I don't think a professional hockey player does. They haven't given up yet nor should they. The players are not looking at it like that at all and they would be poor, poor hockey players if they did.

 

Playing the game the right way is the proper thing to do. In your opinion we should just go Brawl Street Bullies?

I don't think he said that

 

but that is how I feel

ha

[alt kilgore]

Okay, before this thread disappears down the pike, I have to acknowledge Myers game last night.  I've been slagging him all season, and I have to give him credit when credit's due.  How many shots? eight?  Moved up in the play, and not at wrong times. He did have one giveaway that led to a goal, but hey....that's par for the course, or less than par for him.

 

I thought he actually came close to his salary.  If he uses his size both defensively and offensively like that every game, I'd be okay with his play.  Was  it that his partner was scratched?  He did sound pretty peeved about it.  But it sure would be nice if he could get up like that for every game.

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

 

hahaha you kids crack me up!

"POP SERGACHEV" !!????

you talk as if that is even something that Bo Horvat might do once in a million years

he won't

ever

under no circumstances is Bo Captain Horvat ever going to POP Serg.

 

so, with that said, he was not exercising discipline

It's just not there, not in his DNA, not in his character

 

let me ask,

if that was Luke Schenn standing exactly where Horvat was, would he have taken a penalty and/or "Popped Serg"?

 

would he have literally looked the other way at the ref (the closest thing I've seen to Daniel/Marchand in 12 years)

or

would he have gone nose to nose with Serg and let him know he will finish business next meeting, but not taken the first shot?

 

My bet is that Serg would have felt that yellow creeping up his spine as he knows he is in the clutches of a bigger tougher man, who doesn't need to pop him to get the message through, but he just might 

 

you kids are always going from -20 to +110% with no gray in between

 

Speaking of Schenn, that holding penalty was the weakest call I've seen this week

blah, blah, blah .. I'm no kid.

 

Schenn would have popped him no doubt and we would have lost the PP. You obviously don't respect the game at all or realize the value of making a sacrifice to win a game, or have the ability to look at thing through 2 lenses. There are two ways to look at that situation and you need to crucify Bo ... go ahead if it makes you feel better but you sound like a goof with your yellow spine talk.

 

Bo may not be a smash mouth player but he certainly holds his own and doesn't shy away from the physical contact. He's a good overall hockey player. Take an honest look at the league he's in and be honest with yourself. Is he a pussy or just another hockey player? Is he more of a pussy then Mason Raymond, Grabner, Vanek, Hughes, Kuzmenko, Batherson, Boeser, Landeskog, Ehlers, Garland, Matthews, Josi, Suzuki, Hirschier, Stamkos, Tavares, and Spurgeon? Are they all punching Sergachev in the head there and Bo is the only guy to hold off? I've seen this countless times in hockey. You have no clue old man.

 

You're mad the Canucks lost and blame it on Bo for a position bestowed upon him by management when he was 24 years old. @misplacedanger

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

blah, blah, blah .. I'm no kid.

 

Schenn would have popped him no doubt and we would have lost the PP. You obviously don't respect the game at all or realize the value of making a sacrifice to win a game, or have the ability to look at thing through 2 lenses. There are two ways to look at that situation and you need to crucify Bo ... go ahead if it makes you feel better but you sound like a goof with your yellow spine talk.

 

Bo may not be a smash mouth player but he certainly holds his own and doesn't shy away from the physical contact. He's a good overall hockey player. Take an honest look at the league he's in and be honest with yourself. Is he a pussy or just another hockey player? Is he more of a pussy then Mason Raymond, Grabner, Vanek, Hughes, Kuzmenko, Batherson, Boeser, Landeskog, Ehlers, Garland, Matthews, Josi, Suzuki, Hirschier, Stamkos, Tavares, and Spurgeon? Are they all punching Sergachev in the head there and Bo is the only guy to hold off? I've seen this countless times in hockey. You have no clue old man.

 

You're mad the Canucks lost and blame it on Bo for a position bestowed upon him by management when he was 24 years old. @misplacedanger

I swear, some of these people think they're playing in the 80"s.  That's not hockey anymore and it's sad to see people hold on to something that's never coming back.  

[Gawdzukes]

24 minutes ago, NHTyrany said:

If you think establishing a team toughness identity is synonymous with how Philly once was, you are mistaken. Enough with the turning the other cheek and I don't think they would become poor hockey players. It's all about doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons. It's not game 7 we are talking about...

I kind of think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Exactly like you said about timing. In a split second he decided to try to win the hockey game like good players do. In retrospect they lost and yeah he should have punched him in the head for free ... in hindsight. Some people are taking it too far though. Life and hockey is full of these decisions. You make it sound like that would have actually accomplished something and they lost out on something due to Bo somehow.

 

As an aside can you actually name a Captain that's dragged his team to a Championship by punching people in the head and retaliating?

[lmm]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

blah, blah, blah .. I'm no kid.

 

Schenn would have popped him no doubt and we would have lost the PP. You obviously don't respect the game at all or realize the value of making a sacrifice to win a game, or have the ability to look at thing through 2 lenses. There are two ways to look at that situation and you need to crucify Bo ... go ahead if it makes you feel better but you sound like a goof with your yellow spine talk.

 

Bo may not be a smash mouth player but he certainly holds his own and doesn't shy away from the physical contact. He's a good overall hockey player. Take an honest look at the league he's in and be honest with yourself. Is he a pussy or just another hockey player? Is he more of a pussy then Mason Raymond, Grabner, Vanek, Hughes, Kuzmenko, Batherson, Boeser, Landeskog, Ehlers, Garland, Matthews, Josi, Suzuki, Hirschier, Stamkos, Tavares, and Spurgeon? Are they all punching Sergachev in the head there and Bo is the only guy to hold off? I've seen this countless times in hockey. You have no clue old man.

 

You're mad the Canucks lost and blame it on Bo for a position bestowed upon him by management when he was 24 years old. @misplacedanger

whoa, easy big fella

I gave you 3 choices and you are cock sure Schenn would have taken the stupid route

 

Bo is a good player, and I agree that it was management who gifted him the C when he was not ready and the team was in shambles

I would say at this point, Bo is everything we hoped Brock Boeser would be

 

But I would disagree that Bo holds his own and that play last night is a prime example

as i mentioned above, he literally looked to the ref, even said something, 

I wouldn't have been surprised if he took a penalty like Daniel did back in 2011

 

you gave me a list of 17 players, 7 of whom are or were Canucks and 5 are tiny and only 2 have won the big prize, and of that group, I'm thinking its most likely Landeskog and Stamkos would step in. (Did you like that clip when Stamkos back checked like a demon when the game was out of reach?)

The rest, who cares, their teams get bounced in the playoffs anyway

 

and again, you are stuck on this "Smashmouth" hyperbole

you claim that I can't see through different lenses, but for you its smashmouth or pussy (your word, not mine)

 

I gave my opinion on what I think Schenn would have done, but you have "No Doubt" (read that one lens) about what he would do

 

Oh, the kettle, she is a black one

[Gawdzukes]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

I swear, some of these people think they're playing in the 80"s.  That's not hockey anymore and it's sad to see people hold on to something that's never coming back.  

Yeah, it was a fun time I'm not goin lie ... but things change. That all ended when coaches realized you didn't have to dress 3 goons on your fourth line and could dress hockey players instead to get an advantage. Those younger, fitter, smarter, players also realized they didn't have to fight Dave Semenko either if they don't want and fighting was phased out by natural progression. Look at last year's final. Good, tough hockey but it wasn't won and lost after the whistle or by fighting.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah, it was a fun time I'm not goin lie ... but things change. That all ended when coaches realized you didn't have to dress 3 goons on your fourth line and could dress hockey players instead to get an advantage. Those younger, fitter, smarter, players also realized they didn't have to fight Dave Semenko either if they don't want and fighting was phased out by natural progression. Look at last year's final. Good, tough hockey but it wasn't won and lost after the whistle or by fighting.

Of course it was, I pretty much fought every game of my Jr career and loved every minute of it.  But those days are never coming back and within a couple years there likely won't be any fighting in the nhl, at all.........to say nothing of body contact.

 

We might not like it, but that's the reality and we can chose to change the channel if we like

[JayDangles]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

Why would you be disappointed by a guy who's already at 30 goals before the halfway mark of the season and is consistently winning more face offs than he loses and works his tail off every shift?  What's disappointing about that?

I honestly don't understand why I have to explain it so many times to people. There is more to being a captain than scoring points and/or winning faceoffs. Yes Bo is having a career year, but no he is not a strong leader.

 

I really don't know how people can't see that, all I can think is most people commenting on here have never actually played a sport at a compete level. 

 

[JayDangles]

2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

That's reasonable. Just another thing we've screwed up. Would Schenn be better? Maybe but he wouldn't even be on the ice on a good team or the last minutes. Don't see OEL punching out anyone. Miller .. sure, what a freaking nightmare that would be. Maybe Boeser would be better, or Hughes? 

I think your missing the point. It doesn't matter who was on the ice ..

Actually let me ask you this... If the roles were reversed and Horvat was the one that got decked, do you think Garland would have watched it happen and the stood there? Honestly I believe he would have gotten right in there.

 

That's what's missing. If your captain isn't going to drag the team into the fight, then the team will never truly fight.

 

And yes, Schenn should be captain for 1-2 years while the veterans mentor Petey until he is ready or unless the trade for someone who will be an even better leader.

[Gawdzukes]

23 minutes ago, lmm said:

whoa, easy big fella

I gave you 3 choices and you are cock sure Schenn would have taken the stupid route

 

Bo is a good player, and I agree that it was management who gifted him the C when he was not ready and the team was in shambles

I would say at this point, Bo is everything we hoped Brock Boeser would be

 

But I would disagree that Bo holds his own and that play last night is a prime example

as i mentioned above, he literally looked to the ref, even said something, 

I wouldn't have been surprised if he took a penalty like Daniel did back in 2011

 

you gave me a list of 17 players, 7 of whom are or were Canucks and 5 are tiny and only 2 have won the big prize, and of that group, I'm thinking its most likely Landeskog and Stamkos would step in. (Did you like that clip when Stamkos back checked like a demon when the game was out of reach?)

The rest, who cares, their teams get bounced in the playoffs anyway

 

and again, you are stuck on this "Smashmouth" hyperbole

you claim that I can't see through different lenses, but for you its smashmouth or pussy (your word, not mine)

 

I gave my opinion on what I think Schenn would have done, but you have "No Doubt" (read that one lens) about what he would do

 

Oh, the kettle, she is a black one

Sorry didn't mean to come off so hot under the collar. I will conclude it looked like a hockey judgement call play to me but seemed like people are just taking the opportunity to throw Bo under the bus. That's fine if people judge captaincy like that and want more. For me the captain is just a player like everyone else. It takes a team to win and I have no problem with my teammate trying to win the game by not taking a dumb penalty. I'm pretty much never getting mad at my teammate for not punching people or mixing it up (not like missing a wide open net) as long as they play good hockey. They are your teammates. I might give them a half shrug but mad ... no .. never.

 

Bo just isn't a bang and crasher. He probably isn't the captain of captains but do you think Bo is too weak of a player to even be in the NHL with that weak of a display?

[JayDangles]

2 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Retaliate = take a penalty, guarantee lose the game

Dont retaliate = no penalty, still a chance to tie it up (within 1 goal)

 

Absolutely no issue with him keeping it together and trying to win. 

Yes, and given the state of this team, trying to secure the 2 points is what matters right now? Honestly who cares about the two points. We're not making the playoffs.

The game ended with absolutely nothing to build off of. If Horvat had actually done something and taken a penalty, I guarantee that would have been something the TEAM could have built off of and the dressing room probably wouldn't have been as quiet after the game.

I'm just saying, people feel the culture is stale and the team has no push back, yet people automatically come to Horvats defense when he doesn't have push back and doesn't do anything to lead the change.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Yes, and given the state of this team, trying to secure the 2 points is what matters right now? Honestly who cares about the two points. We're not making the playoffs.

The game ended with absolutely nothing to build off of. If Horvat had actually done something and taken a penalty, I guarantee that would have been something the TEAM could have built off of and the dressing room probably wouldn't have been as quiet after the game.

I'm just saying, people feel the culture is stale and the team has no push back, yet people automatically come to Horvats defense when he doesn't have push back and doesn't do anything to lead the change.

Yup.  Standing up for mates galvanizes a room.  Pack mentality.  One for all; all for one.  Got your back.  Sacrifice.  It’s all important and starts with our top dogs.  

[stawns]

28 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I honestly don't understand why I have to explain it so many times to people. There is more to being a captain than scoring points and/or winning faceoffs. Yes Bo is having a career year, but no he is not a strong leader.

 

I really don't know how people can't see that, all I can think is most people commenting on here have never actually played a sport at a compete level. 

 

Why do you think he isn't a strong leader?  What makes a leader "strong" in your eyes?

[stawns]

26 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I think your missing the point. It doesn't matter who was on the ice ..

Actually let me ask you this... If the roles were reversed and Horvat was the one that got decked, do you think Garland would have watched it happen and the stood there? Honestly I believe he would have gotten right in there.

 

That's what's missing. If your captain isn't going to drag the team into the fight, then the team will never truly fight.

 

And yes, Schenn should be captain for 1-2 years while the veterans mentor Petey until he is ready or unless the trade for someone who will be an even better leader.

Primarily, the play happened behind the goal line in a big scrum, well after the whistle, my guess is nobody saw.  Second, their focus was on winning the game and taking a stupid penalty negates that.  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

Why do you think he isn't a strong leader?  What makes a leader "strong" in your eyes?

What do you think?  Why not suggest an answer?  

[Alflives]

Just now, stawns said:

Primarily, the play happened behind the goal line in a big scrum, well after the whistle, my guess is nobody saw.  Second, their focus was on winning the game and taking a stupid penalty negates that.  

Not a stupid penalty, considering the circumstances of the season, or the big picture of our club.  Narrow minded view to think only of the moment.  Maybe that’s the kind of thinking that has us struggling so much?  We aren’t focussed on being their for our teammates and more concerned about our own stats?  

[JayDangles]

16 minutes ago, stawns said:

Why do you think he isn't a strong leader?  What makes a leader "strong" in your eyes?

Seriously? I've said it so many times I honestly don't want to keep going over it.

There are lots of different ways to lead, in life and in hockey... But if you are asking what makes a strong leader? It's very simple,

A strong leader has strong followers. That's it. Pure and simple. 

If there's no one following you, then you aren't a strong leader.

Now think back to all the good years when the team was strong, when the teams was close, was a family, it wasn't just coincidence. There were always strong leaders at the helm.

 

I have not seen any real example in the last 5 years that prove to me that Bo is leading and that the team is following.

 

Bo does not do whatever it takes, and if you're going to wear the C you need to have a whatever it takes attitude sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes. He just doesn't have it.