fanofvan Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 29 minutes ago, Pure961089 said: I know, crazy huh? This new NHL is a young man’s game. And Detroit is smart enough of an organization to recognize that. That’s why they’re winners, and that’s why the Canucks aren’t. Detroit are winners? What, exactly, have they won lately? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Pure961089 said: Canucks second pick would be 14-18. How many of these defencemen were drafted in this ballpark? McAvoy, Sergachyov, Chychrun, Noah Dobson, K'Andre Miller. Good picks, but add up the number of great defensemen that came out of round 1 spot 15+ vs the number of bottom pair guys and guys that didn’t stick in the nhl across multiple drafts way under 50% chance of getting an impact top-4 guy, particularly rhd, and particularly one that would play and impact in 3-4 years from draft day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 minute ago, MaxVerstappen33 said: D men are what you draft with accumulated 2nds, 3rds and 4ths. I agree with this entirely. Their development is much harder to predict, so take more shots and some will eventually hit. But it also means a longer development path. getting EP2 from the third round of the draft is looking like a win. We need to take way more of those shots moving forward in later rounds. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: Right, McAvoy Sergachev and Chychrun all great picks in 2016, but other 1st round defensemen: Juolevi, Bean, Fabbro, Stanley, Johansen all went on to not be significant top-4 pieces. 2017 had 2 great top-4 picks Makar and Heiskanen, and Foote, Branstrom, Valimaki, Lilijgren, Vaakanainen, POJ, and Jokiharu all taken in the 1st round. Point is - every draft youve got at BEST a 50% chance of getting an impact top four defenseman with your 1st round pick, and if its not at the very top of the draft (like top 5) then your odds become very bad indeed. If they were going to make this happen in EP/QH/TD contention window, this had to be a trade for a top-4 defenseman, ready to play in his prime. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. You HAVE to draft defencemen through the draft because if they hit they’re extremely valuable. You don’t throw away 1st round picks because they might not pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: If he was smart he'd do it. Bedard is going to be a merchandising machine, a ticket selling machine (every home date will be sold out probably for as long as he plays). Not to mention the market capitalization of the franchise itself would be many times the $43 Mill. If Aqualini had brains , he would have been lining up the team to tank a year ago. To tank for Bedard. And Celibrini. How a hockey fan and owner can't see what is happening in Edmonton with Mcdavid blows the mind. Bedard is a free asset that can be harvested for decades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Pure961089 said: Canucks second pick would be 14-18. How many of these defencemen were drafted in this ballpark? McAvoy, Sergachyov, Chychrun, Noah Dobson, K'Andre Miller. Zboril, Bean, Fabbro, Stanley, Foote, Brannstrom, Valimaki, Vaakanainen, Smith, York, Harley, etc, etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, fanofvan said: Detroit are winners? What, exactly, have they won lately? They have Yzerman. He is the current Jesus of GMs. Whatever he does is right. No questions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Just now, Pure961089 said: You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. You HAVE to draft defencemen through the draft because if they hit they’re extremely valuable. You don’t throw away 1st round picks because they might not pan out. It’s not a throwaway though? it’s an exchange of an expiring UFA Bo Horvat for Hronek, a 25 year old top-4 RHD. Versus an exchange of Bo for a 1st round pick that has a under 50% chance of becoming a top-4 defenseman, meaning a under 50% chance we get our biggest missing piece to give EP/QH/TD a run at a cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 minute ago, MaxVerstappen33 said: If Aqualini had brains , he would have been lining up the team to tank a year ago. To tank for Bedard. And Celibrini. How a hockey fan and owner can't see what is happening in Edmonton with Mcdavid blows the mind. Bedard is a free asset that can be harvested for decades. Also Bedard and Celebrini are both Vancouver products. They'd be a marketer's dream come true. More so than some kid from Russia or Finland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said: D men are what you draft with accumulated 2nds, 3rds and 4ths. All the defencemen I mentioned were all drafted in the mid first round. And they All had immediate impact on their teams upon arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, fanofvan said: Zboril, Bean, Fabbro, Stanley, Foote, Brannstrom, Valimaki, Vaakanainen, Smith, York, Harley, etc, etc Again, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Just now, Pure961089 said: All the defencemen I mentioned were all drafted in the mid first round. And they All had immediate impact on their teams upon arrival. None of them were ready to carry their teams to a deep playoff run as a top pairing defenseman though. they all needed time, years before they were reliable. Look at Hughes, he’s a way different player now than he was when he got here initially. He needed years to improve his defensive game. His shot as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, jyu said: Let tomorrow's problem, be tomorrow's problem. - Canaucks management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Just now, Pure961089 said: Again, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. But like why not get the top-4 positioned LOCKED since it’s an absolute requirement for the cup run in our franchise players contention window vs gambling it on a 1st with a below 50% hit rate I say lock in the top 4 rhd like we did, then take more shots in later rounds and if we take enough shots we’ll find another Hronek (a 2nd rounder himself) or an andersson, or a forsling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jester13 said: Or both sides, which I find myself on. When the trade was announced that we got Hronek, I was pumped (he's a rhd that I've had my eyes on). Then I heard we traded away the 1st and 2nd in this year's deep draft, and I got a little deflated. Then I started thinking long term and got more deflated. Then I started thinking about making a go of it with Petey and Hughes and got pumped up again. Then I started thinking about how we could've still made a good go of it with Petey and Hughes even with keeping those two picks, and I got a little deflated again. Then I'll watch the game tonight and get pumped up again... I fee like I'm outlining an accurate persona of what it's like to be a Canucks fan I hate this organization; it's awesome! My biggest concern is just the bet on Hronek itself, and I don't know enough to say either way. If you had told me we could move the Isles pick & get a #2/3 RHD that could move the puck, play big minutes (potentially with Hughes), and one that could be here in his prime for 5+ years I would've been just fine with that. So can Hronek actually be that guy that we've needed for so long? I guess we'll see. 23 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Here's the other understated problem with this latest trade: we are in cap trouble again. If we can trade Myers, Brock, and/or Garland, then that's something, but we're selling low or might even have to sweeten, which sucks and doesn't help long term either. Here's another problem: if Hronek plays great, we have to pay up to keep him, but with what cap space? Maybe Myers and the others, but those guys have to be replace as well, and with whom? The list goes on. They have 33M in cap space when his deal expires. If he plays great & we have to pay him a decent raise, that's a good problem. I imagine Myers will be moved in the offseason after his bonus is paid. As far as replacing Myers, we have Bear already who's a better player than Myers aswell as Hronek, then we can get a 3 pair D. Edited March 3, 2023 by Smashian Kassian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/new-canucks-president-rutherford-wont-trade-high-draft-picks-4861161 “It's not the cycle we're in to trade high draft picks.” I guess we got out of the cycle pretty quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: None of them were ready to carry their teams to a deep playoff run as a top pairing defenseman though. they all needed time, years before they were reliable. Look at Hughes, he’s a way different player now than he was when he got here initially. He needed years to improve his defensive game. His shot as well. Why do you shift the goalpost? Becoming an impact player for your team gives you a chance but there’s no guarantee. But that doesn’t mean you stop trying. Not many 2nd round picks make it. Look at Jet Woo. When you have a chance to draft a young rhd you take it. Edited March 3, 2023 by Pure961089 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Pure961089 said: Again, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. So instead of missing they used the pick to get a player that has a 100% probability of being a top 4. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, awalk said: https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/new-canucks-president-rutherford-wont-trade-high-draft-picks-4861161 “It's not the cycle we're in to trade high draft picks.” I guess we got out of the cycle pretty quickly You quoted an article from December of 2021…now quote what he said in the “major surgery” press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Are people really arguing the importance of drafting high? Let's just look at 2 players from three teams..... Since 2009 Chicago - 3 cups Kane drafted #1, Toews drafted #3 Pittsburgh - 3 cups (4 trips to finals) Crosby #1, Malkin #2 Tampa Bay 2 cups (4 trips to finals) Stamkos #1, Hedman #2 That's 8 Stanley Cups in 11 Finals appearances. So is drafting inside the top 3 a crap shoot? Yes it is, occasionally you're going to get a Cam Barker or a Nail Yakupov. But it's pretty damn hard to win without those kind of picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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