[PGT] Trade Day Edition

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

2 hours ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Totally.  And he's on record advocating the accumulation of draft picks as currency to get the players we need, then reverses course when management does exactly that.  Freaks out about missing the window with Petey and Hughes, then loses his sh!t when we try to plug some holes around them.  All at full volume and with utter disregard for how he contradicts himself.  But it works:  look at all the negative nellies here, it's like he has a direct line to their brains. 

I despise Drance and am still underwhelmed with the job management has done so far. Nice try generalizing everyone that doesn’t agree with you though. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

We are only better then 5 teams in the entire league and Management believes raty beau and Hronek are the key pieces we were missing all along? Give your head a shake this team is an absolute dumpster fire

And what exactly is management supposed to do when the owner is setting the direction to build for next season and not for seasons beyond that? 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

I despise Drance and am still underwhelmed with the job management has done so far. Nice try generalizing everyone that doesn’t agree with you though. 

I ask the same question again. What is management supposed to do differently when the owner is setting the direction to build for next season and is less concerned about the seasons that come after? Do they refuse to do what the owner wants? Nonis and Gillis both tried that. What happened to them? 

[spur1]

Garland and Boeser both earn the majority of their pay.

Meyers overpaid and overworked. Most have been saying pay Myers his 5mil bonus and then trade him.

For the extra 1mil we might as well keep him but play him less minutes.

Poolman and Pearson are up in the air. TBD so to speak.

OEL...see Myers above.

Damn I am liking that Hronek trade. That trade takes up those extra minutes.

Who knows maybe Luke comes back.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I ask the same question again. What is management supposed to do differently when the owner is setting the direction to build for next season and is less concerned about the seasons that come after? Do they refuse to do what the owner wants? Nonis and Gillis both tried that. What happened to them? 

Perhaps the people that disagree with the team direction do so without differentiating what part of the direction comes from ownership and what comes from management.
 

We’ve been retooling for a decade. I used to be on board, and even defended that position in the past, however it hasn’t yielded results. If the plan isn’t working, then it’s time to change the plan. 

[sxqhfeh]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And what exactly is management supposed to do when the owner is setting the direction to build for next season and not for seasons beyond that? 

they could get their pieces via trade (like before signing Miller) without give up any picks

[wai_lai416]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

That’s kind of why our owner won’t rebuild. He doesn’t trust our fans to support a club that’s rebuilding. I think he’s wrong. But considering he’s the owner and he sets the direction, I’m okay with the Hronek deal. We got a #3 D, who is a right shot. Should be the guy to carry OEL. Just need a better partner for Hughes now. 

carry oel?? you haven't watched him play defence lol

[Toews]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Tampa team that won those two recent Cups had only Hedman as their drafted D. The rest of their D were either acquired via trade or free agency. We have Hughes. Now we traded for Hronek. It’s exactly what we needed to do. 

Yzerman built Tampa's blueline and he was the one who chose to trade Hronek away. If you look at Tampa's D core that won those Cups, Hedman, Cernak, McDonough and Sergachev, that is the same mold he is following in Detroit by prioritizing size and skating ability. Yzerman knows what type of D one needs to build for the playoffs. The Canucks might score goals in bunches but I don't expect to go deep with the blueline as it is constructed.

 

I don't mind moving assets for the right player, picks are currency after all and if we aren't rebuilding then drafting a D with 13th-15th overall would likely require us to wait 3-4 years for the player to make the roster. But if we were moving those assets we needed to prioritize acquiring a big, physical RHD, not another small, soft puckmover. And if that player was not available I would have kept those assets and waited to see if we could acquire that piece at the draft. Even at the draft if that player isn't available then you pick the BPA and wait for the right opportunity to make a trade with your surplus of assets. At this point it feels like the Canucks were desperate and blew their draft capital at the first RHD that became available. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

Perhaps the people that disagree with the team direction do so without differentiating what part of the direction comes from ownership and what comes from management.
 

We’ve been retooling for a decade. I used to be on board, and even defended that position in the past, however it hasn’t yielded results. If the plan isn’t working, then it’s time to change the plan. 

Sure. I think a lot of fans would support a rebuild. But clearly our owner won’t. So what does management do? The owner is the one who signs off on big trades and signings and buyouts and all the big moves. Hell, our owner refused to switch coaches last summer, and look at the mess that caused. We can be disappointed with management, but it’s our owner who is limiting what management can and cannot do. 

And who knows? Maybe this philosophy works again, like it did with Gillis? 

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Garland and Boeser both earn the majority of their pay.

Meyers overpaid and overworked. Most have been saying pay Myers his 5mil bonus and then trade him.

For the extra 1mil we might as well keep him but play him less minutes.

Poolman and Pearson are up in the air. TBD so to speak.

OEL...see Myers above.

Damn I am liking that Hronek trade. That trade takes up those extra minutes.

Who knows maybe Luke comes back.

You will like him even more when you watch him play.  He is in a different galaxy skill wise than Schenn, Myers, Bear and Burroughs...

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

they could get their pieces via trade (like before signing Miller) without give up any picks

And what do they do if the owner says no to the Miller return? Allvin would need to show the owner the Miller return has enough value to return a younger Miller replacement. 

[hockeyfan-observer]

Overall, I thought the trading week for the Canucks was rather quiet - a tweak here and there with the exception of the Hronek addition.  I was looking at the completed trades - they were mostly UFA and RFA - not too many of the contenders were willing to part with key players or add term in their playoff drive.  Some of those teams that had a possible connection with Vancouver players (eg. Pittsburgh) may circle back should they falter down the stretch or get eliminated early in the playoffs.  

 

As much as there were questions about the Hronek addition, Canucks IMO were still generally  sellers  - there were many UFA RFA candidates they could have contemplated but stood quiet. (look at the Domi deal for 2nd round pick + goalie).  Guess we will have to wait till June - July to see what comes up.

 

Really hoping that after 50+ years, we get some luck in the lottery though - whether finishing at the 7th or 11th position.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by hockeyfan-observer
c

[sxqhfeh]

Just now, Alflives said:

And what do they do if the owner says no to the Miller return? Allvin would need to show the owner the Miller return has enough value to return a younger Miller replacement. 

Again what Vancouver is lacking since they are continously trading away picks. Alvin and company could have retooled while building up the prospect farm,If I was hughes and Petterson I would definitely sit down and ask ownership what plan is. Because I can't see this team making the playoffs within the 3 year window Alvin is hoping for

[Bure2Win]

Stop worrying guys we've wait over half a century for a Cup what's another half century......Sigh

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Toews said:

Yzerman built Tampa's blueline and he was the one who chose to trade Hronek away. If you look at Tampa's D core that won those Cups, Hedman, Cernak, McDonough and Sergachev, that is the same mold he is following in Detroit by prioritizing size and skating ability. Yzerman knows what type of D one needs to build for the playoffs. The Canucks might score goals in bunches but I don't expect to go deep with the blueline as it is constructed.

 

I don't mind moving assets for the right player, picks are currency after all and if we aren't rebuilding then drafting a D with 13th-15th overall would likely require us to wait 3-4 years for the player to make the roster. But if we were moving those assets we needed to prioritize acquiring a big, physical RHD, not another small, soft puckmover. And if that player was not available I would have kept those assets and waited to see if we could acquire that piece at the draft. Even at the draft if that player isn't available then you pick the BPA and wait for the right opportunity to make a trade with your surplus of assets. At this point it feels like the Canucks were desperate and blew their draft capital at the first RHD that became available. 

Now that’s a valid criticism. And when an owner is pushing management to make these types of trades mistakes are made. Much like the Benning mistake trading for OEL. But IMHAO Hronek is a very good player who will anchor our second pair for the next 7 seasons. 

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

Just now, Alflives said:

Sure. I think a lot of fans would support a rebuild. But clearly our owner won’t. So what does management do? The owner is the one who signs off on big trades and signings and buyouts and all the big moves. Hell, our owner refused to switch coaches last summer, and look at the mess that caused. We can be disappointed with management, but it’s our owner who is limiting what management can and cannot do. 

And who knows? Maybe this philosophy works again, like it did with Gillis? 

Gillis inherited an established core in their primes that only needed a few tweaks. He also mortgaged the future to do it, which we are still paying for. But he almost won us a cup, so we were all on board with it at the time, as we should have been. It was the most exciting time to be a Canucks fan since 1994.
 

That being said. I fail to see the correlation to the position we find ourselves in now. 

[Bure2Win]

14 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Garland and Boeser both earn the majority of their pay.

Meyers overpaid and overworked. Most have been saying pay Myers his 5mil bonus and then trade him.

For the extra 1mil we might as well keep him but play him less minutes.

Poolman and Pearson are up in the air. TBD so to speak.

OEL...see Myers above.

Damn I am liking that Hronek trade. That trade takes up those extra minutes.

Who knows maybe Luke comes back.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

Again what Vancouver is lacking since they are continously trading away picks. Alvin and company could have retooled while building up the prospect farm,If I was hughes and Petterson I would definitely sit down and ask ownership what plan is. Because I can't see this team making the playoffs within the 3 year window Alvin is hoping for

We already saw the photos posted here of Petey meeting with our owner (over dinner) after the “shocking reset”. Maybe the insistence of our owner to build now (and not rebuild) is partly because he’s talked to Petey and Hughes? Although I think it’s just what he wants regardless. He’s been this way since he bought the club. 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, Toews said:

Yzerman built Tampa's blueline and he was the one who chose to trade Hronek away. If you look at Tampa's D core that won those Cups, Hedman, Cernak, McDonough and Sergachev, that is the same mold he is following in Detroit by prioritizing size and skating ability. Yzerman knows what type of D one needs to build for the playoffs. The Canucks might score goals in bunches but I don't expect to go deep with the blueline as it is constructed.

 

I don't mind moving assets for the right player, picks are currency after all and if we aren't rebuilding then drafting a D with 13th-15th overall would likely require us to wait 3-4 years for the player to make the roster. But if we were moving those assets we needed to prioritize acquiring a big, physical RHD, not another small, soft puckmover. And if that player was not available I would have kept those assets and waited to see if we could acquire that piece at the draft. Even at the draft if that player isn't available then you pick the BPA and wait for the right opportunity to make a trade with your surplus of assets. At this point it feels like the Canucks were desperate and blew their draft capital at the first RHD that became available. 

Victor Hedman and Erik Cernak are not available for trade.  At any price, unless you want to give away a top 3 pick.  Hronek was the best one available, and he wasn't even on the market, Allvin targeted him.  Also, I would disagree with your assessment of Hronek.  He is a good skater, at least as good as McDonough and Cernak, he plays a physical game for a guy who is only 6' 190lbs, he is great on the penalty kill and he is lights out on the PP.  His analytics are in the top 10-15 Dmen in the entire NHL.  He is definitely not a "soft" player.  He got run over by Ryan Reaves and was literally back in the lineup the next game when others may have been out for weeks. 

 

The Canucks targeted Hronek, he wasn't actually on the market.  So, they didn't blow their load on the first guy who was available.  According to Allvin, he had been following both Beauvillier and Hronek for over a year.  Sometimes facts get in the way of a good argument...

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We already saw the photos posted here of Petey meeting with our owner (over dinner) after the “shocking reset”. Maybe the insistence of our owner to build now (and not rebuild) is partly because he’s talked to Petey and Hughes? Although I think it’s just what he wants regardless. He’s been this way since he bought the club. 

I know for a fact that Petey has had dinner with Aquilini at least one more time since that time...