[PGT] Trade Day Edition

[Toews]

2 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Exactly how would a new owner create a contending team? Be specific. What does a new owner know that the current owners don't? More to the point, how do YOU know what the new owner would know?

 

Final question: Ever heard of Michael Heisley?

You do realize this is the same argument people made to keep Jim Benning around? How do we know that the next guy will be better? Well the current guy is a sack of **** so I will take the nameless faceless owner who will hopefully not be so shortsighted and stupid. 

[jyu]

21 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

And Nemec?

You said the guy has same last name as the guy that’s on our team and plays for Michigan. There’s no Nemec on our team. 

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, Toews said:

How was Cernak acquired by Yzerman? By trade and it didn't cost him a top 3 pick to get him. If that was the best that available then I would have kept our draft capital and waited for the right player to become available.

He is an undersized defenseman on a blue line that is already small and soft. We can agree to disagree on how 'soft' he is, imo he doesn't bring an element that we sorely need.  

Good for Alvin, however I don't trust his judgement when he is betting on a player that Yzerman chose to give away. 

Wasn't Yzerman the guy who drafted Tony DeAngelo, a guy who is even smaller than Filip Hronek, with his 1st round pick in 2014?  He also used a 14th overall pick to draft Callan Foote.  Foote is quite large but doesn't seem to have the footspeed to play in the top 4.  Sometimes bigger isn't always better...

[sxqhfeh]

27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think some fans are so upset about giving up this first rounder (understandable after such a bad season; the draft is kind of the reward for a bad year) they are blinded to just how good Hronek is. This guy is a high end right shot D, who will anchor our second pair for the next 5-7 years. He’s a fantastic player. He’s well worth what we paid. IMHAO I’d have been very happy if we traded Bo straight up for Hronek. But we got Beau and Raty in addition. That’s a huge trade for us! 

People were talking about Beauvillier out performing Bo? Their season didn't start 3 weeks ago. Bo has 36 goals and 62 points in 61 games... better than a ppg. Beau has 15g 31p in 61. Bo is a top C and Beau is a middle 6 winger. Player value isn't evaluated by a 3 week sample sizes. One player was progressing year by year and the other degressing. Beau may just be going through a bump currently... we don't know.

Raty was a high regarded prospect. WAS... He has fallen off and is, and has been struggling. He is a project... his skating at 21y/o is not NHL. It's one thing to say that about an 18y/o prospect and suggest there's lots of time to work on it but he's a 21 y/o pro now and his skating is still a concern. And since you like to focus on recent weeks only in assessing trade value... he's not producing barely at all in the AHL. He has 1 point in 8 games and is a -5 since the trade. As a 21y/o "A" prospect in the AHL, that stinks.

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

You do realize this is the same argument people made to keep Jim Benning around? How do we know that the next guy will be better? Well the current guy is a sack of **** so I will take the nameless faceless owner who will hopefully not be so shortsighted and stupid. 

So you don't know who the faceless, nameless Michael Heisley was, do you? 

[24K PureCool]

I am not gonna lie, it is getting harder and harder to follow this team. My apathy level just shot through the roof after this tdl. 

 

This team is the living definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over again. 

 

I won't be surprised if we all gonna go through dija vu in the next 5 tdls. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

People were talking about Beauvillier out performing Bo? Their season didn't start 3 weeks ago. Bo has 36 goals and 62 points in 61 games... better than a ppg. Beau has 15g 31p in 61. Bo is a top C and Beau is a middle 6 winger. Player value isn't evaluated by a 3 week sample sizes. One player was progressing year by year and the other degressing. Beau may just be going through a bump currently... we don't know.

Raty was a high regarded prospect. WAS... He has fallen off and is, and has been struggling. He is a project... his skating at 21y/o is not NHL. It's one thing to say that about an 18y/o prospect and suggest there's lots of time to work on it but he's a 21 y/o pro now and his skating is still a concern. And since you like to focus on recent weeks only in assessing trade value... he's not producing barely at all in the AHL. He has 1 point in 8 games and is a -5 since the trade. As a 21y/o "A" prospect in the AHL, that stinks.

 

 

Since the trade new Beau is out producing old Bo. That’s not arguable. And Hronek is a fabulous 25 year old, right shot 

D, who is going to anchor our second pairing for the next 7 years. That’s fact (okay, my opinion) too. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

13 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Exactly how would a new owner create a contending team? Be specific. What does a new owner know that the current owners don't? More to the point, how do YOU know what the new owner would know?

 

Final question: Ever heard of Michael Heisley?

John McCaw.  According to Brian Burke, the Canucks could be moved with a quarter and one phone call.  I get the hate towards Aquilni to a certain extent, but some of the stuff being thrown around is complete bs.  One such thing is he doesn't care about winning a Stanley Cup.  That is a crock of sh*t.  He literally was a season ticket holder since he was a kid.  He told his dad who is in his 80's that he wants the Canucks to win a cup before he dies...

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, 24K PureCool said:

I am not gonna lie, it is getting harder and harder to follow this team. My apathy level just shot through the roof after this tdl. 

 

This team is the living definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over again. 

 

I won't be surprised if we all gonna go through dija vu in the next 5 tdls. 

Well, while we have this owner the direction isn’t going to change. Plus, Gillis was successful following this owner’s direction. Maybe JR/Allvin will be too? 

[Toews]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Wasn't Yzerman the guy who drafted Tony DeAngelo, a guy who is even smaller than Filip Hronek, with his 1st round pick in 2014?  He also used a 14th overall pick to draft Callan Foote.  Foote is quite large but doesn't seem to have the footspeed to play in the top 4.  Sometimes bigger isn't always better...

He was also the guy who sent him packing. I also don't think Yzerman was unilaterally making decisions there, he was relying on his scouting team. I don't believe Yzerman is infallible I just think that based on his track record as a GM, I trust his judgement far more than I do Alvin's. 

[Jaimito]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

John McCaw.  According to Brian Burke, the Canucks could be moved with a quarter and one phone call.  I get the hate towards Aquilni to a certain extent, but some of the stuff being thrown around is complete bs.  One such thing is he doesn't care about winning a Stanley Cup.  That is a crock of sh*t.  He literally was a season ticket holder since he was a kid.  He told his dad who is in his 80's that he wants the Canucks to win a cup before he dies...

Yup. John McCaw was stingy and nux never landed big free agents like Wings or Rangers. 

[Toews]

7 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

So you don't know who the faceless, nameless Michael Heisley was, do you? 

To use your own words, be specific. What exactly are you afraid of? The Canucks are not the Grizzlies. No one is paying 1bil+ to move the Canucks out of Vancouver to another market. There isn't another US market that can generate enough revenue to throw away that brand value. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Toews said:

He was also the guy who sent him packing. I also don't think Yzerman was unilaterally making decisions there, he was relying on his scouting team. I don't believe Yzerman is infallible I just think that based on his track record as a GM, I trust his judgement far more than I do Alvin's. 

I agree.  Obviously, the scouts have lots of input.  But Yzerman does make the final call and I am sure he was told that DeAngelo was only 5'11".  He knew that when he drafted him and when he met him on stage and realized Tony was the same height as him...   

[sxqhfeh]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Well, while we have this owner the direction isn’t going to change. Plus, Gillis was successful following this owner’s direction. Maybe JR/Allvin will be too? 

the only team retool succeeded is Boston Bruins

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/courier-archive/news/the-paper-feature-the-boston-bruins-retool-succeeded-where-the-canucks-didnt-3073112

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Toews said:

He was also the guy who sent him packing. I also don't think Yzerman was unilaterally making decisions there, he was relying on his scouting team. I don't believe Yzerman is infallible I just think that based on his track record as a GM, I trust his judgement far more than I do Alvin's. 

JR is involved in all we do. How many Cups has he managed teams to? How many Cups has Yzerman managed teams to?

Hronek is a steal. The Wings have gone in the dumper since he’s been out. And I see them being way worse next season too. He’s their best D man, and by a lot. Seider is a hamster brain. He’s struggling now that he’s got to play harder minutes. 

WE WIN! F all other teams! 

[Jaimito]

 

Schizo fan base in Vancouver.  20% hard core group overwhelmingly negative. 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Jaimito

[Alflives]

Just now, sxqhfeh said:

the only team retool succeeded is Boston Bruins

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/courier-archive/news/the-paper-feature-the-boston-bruins-retool-succeeded-where-the-canucks-didnt-3073112

 

Gillis won two Presidents’ trophies and got to game 7 of the Cup. That’s pretty successful. Hopefully this new management can be so good too. The Hronek move is a great step in that direction. 

[Sharpshooter]

32 minutes ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

 

 

What I’m saying is the timing for that move wasn’t right. Unless it solved our top need, a defensive partner for Hughes, then now wasn’t the time to blow those important picks heading into a deep draft. To me it’s all about what our biggest need is versus the cost, and the timing is just as important. In my opinion, the Hronek trade missed the mark on both. 

I suppose the timing isn’t ideal. That’s fair.
 

If the target acquisition of the management’s priority, a top 4 young RHD, was available now and perhaps not later, then pulling the trigger in acquiring him was the safer bet. 
 

The player fits what the dcorps needs to take the offensive pressure off of Hughes, because lord knows there wasn’t any or much coming from the other 5 dmen. 
 

I agree that a defensive dman, or two even, are priorities as well. Management seems to have calculated that it was the lesser priority, though still priorities, that could be addressed easier at either the Draft or through Free Agency, or perhaps  through signings of European or NCAA acquisitions that may not cost as much. 
 

Younger RHD acquisitions are harder to acquire than defensive LHD in general. I hope you concede that. 
 

The team still has its most valuable and important 1st Rd pick going forward. With the shape that the Islanders are in, it’s doubtful that the Nucks would have been in a position to benefit from it in this year’s draft. So, it seems likelier that the pick would have been in the ‘less deeper’ draft of the following year. 
 

That would mean having most of the team two years older, or so, with whomever they chose in ‘24, plus another two to three years potentially before they come online and into a full-time situation with the team. So that’s anywhere between 2-5 years for the Islanders’s pick to be of value. 
 

I’m not knocking your opinion, but I think it’s ironically it’s short sighted. God know this whole retool situation is a bit short sighted, but it is what it is, and that’s ownership’s and therefore management’s plan. 
 

I hope Hronek’s acquisition will assuage most people’s trepidations and angst. 
 

I hope the team builds the 20 somethings into a core that can more than just compete. 
 

I understand your thoughts and I’m perhaps understanding the game plan a bit more myself and hoping you do too. 
 

Cheers bud. 
 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Sharpshooter

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I suppose the timing isn’t ideal. That’s fair.
 

If the target acquisition of the management’s priority, a top 4 young RHD, was available now and perhaps not later, then pulling the trigger in acquiring him was the safer bet. 
 

The player fits what the dcorps needs to take the offensive pressure off of Hughes, because lord knows there wasn’t any or much coming from the other 5 dmen. 
 

I agree that a defensive dman, or two even are priorities as well. Management seems to have calculated that it was the lesser priority, though still priorities that could be addressed easier at either the Draft or through Free Agency, or perhaps  through signings of European or NCAA acquisitions that may not cost as much. 
 

Younger RHD acquisitions are harder to acquire than defensive LHD in general. I hope you concede that. 
 

The team still has its most valuable and important 1st Rd pick going forward. With the shape that the Islanders are in, it’s doubtful that the Nucks would have been in a position to benefit from it in this year’s draft. So, it seems likelier that the pick would have been in the ‘less deeper’ draft of the following year. 
 

That would mean having most of the team two years older, or so, with whomever they chose in ‘24, plus another two to three years potentially before they come online and into a full-time situation with the team. So that’s anywhere between 2-5 years for the Islanders’s pick to be of value. 
 

I’m not knocking your opinion, but I think  ironically it’s short sighted. God know this whole retool situation is a it short sighted, but it is what it is, and that’s ownership’s and therefore management’s plan. 
 

I hope Hronek’s acquisition will assuage most people trepidations and angst. 
 

I hope the team builds the 20 somethings into a core that can more than just compete. 
 

I understand your thoughts and I’m perhaps understanding the game plan a bit more myself and hoping you do too. 
 

Cheers bud. 

This is it exactly. Our owner has his direction set. Management has no choice (outside of being fired) of following that direction. Considering that’s management’s marching orders, getting ?Hronek (a 25 year old, high end, right shot 3 D) is a fantastic move. 

[24K PureCool]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

This is it exactly. Our owner has his direction set. Management has no choice (outside of being fired) of following that direction. Considering that’s management’s marching orders, getting ?Hronek (a 25 year old, high end, right shot 3 D) is a fantastic move. 

Aqua is only 54. We are f*cked.