[PROPOSAL] 2023 1st round pick to NY Rangers

[Elias Pettersson]

To Vancouver:

 

Dallas 2023 1st round pick (via NY Rangers)

Braden Schneider

 

To NY Rangers:

 

Vancouver 2023 1st round pick 

Vancouver 2023 3rd round pick 

 

This trade is contingent on two things.  Vancouver does not win the lottery or the 2nd pick and picks at 10 or 11.  David Reinbacher is not available with our selection.

 

NY Rangers made a similar type of deal in 2020 to get Braden Schneider.  They moved up in the draft by 3 spots and traded their 3rd round pick to do that.

 

In this scenario, we finally get a long-term partner for Hughes in 22-year-old Schneider.  He can play with Hughes for the next decade.  He's still cost controlled for several more years, so won't be looking at a big contract extension for awhile.  He is behind Fox and Trouba so will be a 3rd pairing guy for the Rangers for at least another 3 years or more.  

 

The Rangers do this as they may covet a player in the top 11 that they can't get with the Dallas pick.  It will cost them Schneider to move up around 14 spots in the draft to get a top 11 pick in a deep draft.  We also given them a 3rd round pick to offset with getting Schneider and still having a 1st round pick.

 

If David Reinbacher is available with our selection then I would take him and run.  I think he can be Hughes partner in 2 years.  We just fill in with a Schenn type for a couple of years...

[wai_lai416]

i dont see why rangers would trade schneider and give up a 1st rounder on top just to move up in the draft to draft a players that's more than likely even further behind and not nhl ready for couple years at least. tbh Schneider will probably be better than whatever u end up with in the 10-11 slot alone... and they are pretty stacked at young forwards.. and drafting a defenceman makes 0 sense when they already have schneider.

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dont see why rangers would trade schneider and give up a 1st rounder on top just to move up in the draft to draft a players that's more than likely even further behind and not nhl ready for couple years at least. tbh Schneider will probably be better than whatever u end up with in the 10-11 slot alone... and they are pretty stacked at young forwards.. and drafting a defenceman makes 0 sense when they already have schneider.

I agree.  But it also depends on who they like and who is available at 10-11.  Everyone's draft board is different.  If a player is available at 10-11 that the Rangers have at 5-6 then they might want to pull the trigger.  They actually did this with Schneider.  They traded a 3rd round pick just to move up 3 spots in the 2020 draft to draft Schneider.

 

This is a trade that would be made at the draft on the floor when the Canucks are on the clock.  I always said that Vancouver would trade the NYI pick for a top 4 RHD.  I was correct on that.  Now I am thinking they may double down and trade their own first round pick for another top 4 Dman.  Especially given the fact they are basically out of the top 10 picks.

[wai_lai416]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I agree.  But it also depends on who they like and who is available at 10-11.  Everyone's draft board is different.  If a player is available at 10-11 that the Rangers have at 5-6 then they might want to pull the trigger.  They actually did this with Schneider.  They traded a 3rd round pick just to move up 3 spots in the 2020 draft to draft Schneider.

 

This is a trade that would be made at the draft on the floor when the Canucks are on the clock.  I always said that Vancouver would trade the NYI pick for a top 4 RHD.  I was correct on that.  Now I am thinking they may double down and trade their own first round pick for another top 4 Dman.  Especially given the fact they are basically out of the top 10 picks.

ya but the difference is it only cost them a 3rd round pick to move up 3 spots. not a blue chip 1st RHD + 1st the type of capitals they'll need at the TDL if they are going all in on a player. Schneider if available will get a massive haul by himself. if rangers made schneider not available last 2 years.. i don't see them making him available this year for a draft pick when it's not even a sure thing regardless if they have it in their top 5 or 6

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

ya but the difference is it only cost them a 3rd round pick to move up 3 spots. not a blue chip 1st RHD + 1st the type of capitals they'll need at the TDL if they are going all in on a player. Schneider if available will get a massive haul by himself. if rangers made schneider not available last 2 years.. i don't see them making him available this year for a draft pick when it's not even a sure thing regardless if they have it in their top 5 or 6

According to the value of draft picks chart, the #10 and #75 picks (380 points) is almost the same value as the #19 and #25 picks (420 points).  Schneider was the 19th pick and the Canucks 3rd rounder would be at 75.  So the value is actually close.  The difference is that Schneider is a known product at this point, so the Rangers may value him more that the #19 overall pick today.  If the Canucks had a 2nd round pick I would do that instead to close the deal as that would equal 420 points.

 

Examining the value of NHL Draft picks - Sound Of Hockey

[Alflives]

43 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I agree.  But it also depends on who they like and who is available at 10-11.  Everyone's draft board is different.  If a player is available at 10-11 that the Rangers have at 5-6 then they might want to pull the trigger.  They actually did this with Schneider.  They traded a 3rd round pick just to move up 3 spots in the 2020 draft to draft Schneider.

 

This is a trade that would be made at the draft on the floor when the Canucks are on the clock.  I always said that Vancouver would trade the NYI pick for a top 4 RHD.  I was correct on that.  Now I am thinking they may double down and trade their own first round pick for another top 4 Dman.  Especially given the fact they are basically out of the top 10 picks.

What would it cost to get Tanev back?

[wai_lai416]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

According to the value of draft picks chart, the #10 and #75 picks (380 points) is almost the same value as the #19 and #25 picks (420 points).  Schneider was the 19th pick and the Canucks 3rd rounder would be at 75.  So the value is actually close.  The difference is that Schneider is a known product at this point, so the Rangers may value him more that the #19 overall pick today.  If the Canucks had a 2nd round pick I would do that instead to close the deal as that would equal 420 points.

 

Examining the value of NHL Draft picks - Sound Of Hockey

ya schneider definitely is worth way more than a 19th pick right now if rangers were to move him i honestly don't think they'll move him for anything less than what hronek traded for.. i really don't see anyone outside of bedard fantilli michov and carlsson as guaranteed players. all have high potential but i'm sure rangers would want a sure thing if they are moving a sure thing in schneider.. on top of giving up a 1st rounder. some teams would prolly offer up their 1st rounder in the 10-15 range straight up for schneider alone 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

ya schneider definitely is worth way more than a 19th pick right now if rangers were to move him i honestly don't think they'll move him for anything less than what hronek traded for.. i really don't see anyone outside of bedard fantilli michov and carlsson as guaranteed players. all have high potential but i'm sure rangers would want a sure thing if they are moving a sure thing in schneider.. on top of giving up a 1st rounder. some teams would prolly offer up their 1st rounder in the 10-15 range straight up for schneider alone 

So the Canucks 2023 1st round pick for Braden Schneider and the rights to Jayden Grubbe?

 

I guess it depends on who is available at 11.  Hronek was basically traded for a top 10 pick, as the value of #18 and #43 is #10.  Not sure Schneider has the same value as Hronek...

[Elias Pettersson]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What would it cost to get Tanev back?

Calgary probably waits until the deadline to trade him for maximum value unless they are in the playoff hunt.  I would say if he is having a decent year they should get a 2nd round pick for him at the deadline next year...

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Calgary probably waits until the deadline to trade him for maximum value unless they are in the playoff hunt.  I would say if he is having a decent year they should get a 2nd round pick for him at the deadline next year...

Woo enough for Tanev this summer? 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Woo enough for Tanev this summer? 

I doubt it.  

[wai_lai416]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So the Canucks 2023 1st round pick for Braden Schneider and the rights to Jayden Grubbe?

 

I guess it depends on who is available at 11.  Hronek was basically traded for a top 10 pick, as the value of #18 and #43 is #10.  Not sure Schneider has the same value as Hronek...

i'd do it but i don't think the rangers would. what i meant was there'll be other teams in the 10-15 range prolly willing to offer straight up if he's available but whether or not the rangers will bite is another question. if they ever move schneider it'll be an nhl ready player that maybe further along.. if you are to ask me.. i think the rangers window really is going to be the next 2 years or bust. shesterkin is going to need a contract after the next 2 seasons.. and i'm going to say he'll prolly be looking in the 8mil+ range  or even higher if they end up going short term as he's gonna be 30. they have so many big contract locked up it's really hard to see them able to field together a roster deep enough past the next 2 season.. they are able to now coz they have so many cheap ELC contracts on their rosters.. so if they move schneider.. i think it'll be for a win now player not something 3 years down the road. if they miss this window now.. they might be on the downswing and looking to rebuild/retool again in maybe 3-4 years.. Panarin zib kreider trouba trochek will all be 32+. and they are all locked up to big contracts

[Drakrami]

Rangers are pretty stacked in forwards and defense. Schneider is exactly what they need more of, 21 year old, NHL ready, ELC contract. 

 

Since you want Schneider, obviously the point of the post, you will have to pay up. Although for the reason above, NYR probably wont even trade him. 

[Rabbit]

NY would not do that.

[VegasCanuck]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

To Vancouver:

 

Dallas 2023 1st round pick (via NY Rangers)

Braden Schneider

 

To NY Rangers:

 

Vancouver 2023 1st round pick 

Vancouver 2023 3rd round pick 

 

This trade is contingent on two things.  Vancouver does not win the lottery or the 2nd pick and picks at 10 or 11.  David Reinbacher is not available with our selection.

 

NY Rangers made a similar type of deal in 2020 to get Braden Schneider.  They moved up in the draft by 3 spots and traded their 3rd round pick to do that.

 

In this scenario, we finally get a long-term partner for Hughes in 22-year-old Schneider.  He can play with Hughes for the next decade.  He's still cost controlled for several more years, so won't be looking at a big contract extension for awhile.  He is behind Fox and Trouba so will be a 3rd pairing guy for the Rangers for at least another 3 years or more.  

 

The Rangers do this as they may covet a player in the top 11 that they can't get with the Dallas pick.  It will cost them Schneider to move up around 14 spots in the draft to get a top 11 pick in a deep draft.  We also given them a 3rd round pick to offset with getting Schneider and still having a 1st round pick.

 

If David Reinbacher is available with our selection then I would take him and run.  I think he can be Hughes partner in 2 years.  We just fill in with a Schenn type for a couple of years...

Our 1st and 3rd round picks this summer, on their own won't pry Schneider out of NY. There's no way they would send us a 1st round pick back with him.

[Elias Pettersson]

47 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Our 1st and 3rd round picks this summer, on their own won't pry Schneider out of NY. There's no way they would send us a 1st round pick back with him.

That’s almost a similar value to what we paid for Hronek. Definitely an overpayment for someone who’s still playing on the 3rd pairing. 

[VegasCanuck]

17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That’s almost a similar value to what we paid for Hronek. Definitely an overpayment for someone who’s still playing on the 3rd pairing. 

Doesn't matter where he's playing now, he's still young and a part of NYR's future. This kid will be a top pairing RD within a couple of years. Let's cancel out them sending back the Dallas pick (realistically #28..ish) and our 3rd round pick and say value wise with how you have it structured, it would be the equivalent of us giving them a #20 when you factor what they would be giving back on the pick.

 

So, would you have traded Pettersson or Hughes for essentially a #20 OA pick in a draft? That's pretty close to what you are asking the Rangers to do.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

28 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Doesn't matter where he's playing now, he's still young and a part of NYR's future. This kid will be a top pairing RD within a couple of years. Let's cancel out them sending back the Dallas pick (realistically #28..ish) and our 3rd round pick and say value wise with how you have it structured, it would be the equivalent of us giving them a #20 when you factor what they would be giving back on the pick.

 

So, would you have traded Pettersson or Hughes for essentially a #20 OA pick in a draft? That's pretty close to what you are asking the Rangers to do.

 

So you are valuing Schneider on the same level as Petey and Hughes? 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[VegasCanuck]

16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So you are valuing Schneider on the same level as Petey and Hughes? 

This kid has that potential. Not as high offensively as Hughes, but this kid has the ability to become a #1 RD. So, in the current NHL, what would it cost to acquire a #1RD at 21 years of age?

 

The fact that at 21, he's able to hold himself in the lineup this season on a deep team, should tell you what you need to know about his potential. Teams don't trade guys like this unless they are overpaid, or they have too many kids at the same position completing for the same ice time and deficiencies at other positions. Then, they move one of the excess assets to address the other deficiencies.

 

The Rangers aren't in a position where they would benefit from flushing away a really strong young RD for futures.

[Elias Pettersson]

16 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

This kid has that potential. Not as high offensively as Hughes, but this kid has the ability to become a #1 RD. So, in the current NHL, what would it cost to acquire a #1RD at 21 years of age?

 

The fact that at 21, he's able to hold himself in the lineup this season on a deep team, should tell you what you need to know about his potential. Teams don't trade guys like this unless they are overpaid, or they have too many kids at the same position completing for the same ice time and deficiencies at other positions. Then, they move one of the excess assets to address the other deficiencies.

 

The Rangers aren't in a position where they would benefit from flushing away a really strong young RD for futures.

I would agree that if Schneider is valued at that level, then I wouldn't even trade him for a top 10 pick and a 3rd round pick.  Problem is I don't value him that highly and neither do most other hockey people.  Can he get there one day?  Maybe.  I see him as an Erik Cernak type with better offensive upside if put into a top 4 role.  I don't see him as having the offensive skill of a Victor Hedman or a Quinn Hughes.  Not even close really.  He'd be a perfect partner for Hughes though...