11th overall pick in the 2023 Entry Draft

[awalk]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

No, we would be signing more quality UFA’s who can help us win a cup. Or we can free up the cap space to make another major trade similar to the Hronek deal. 

UFAs = bloated contracts. We might find another schenn like gem, but we don't need a ton of cap space for bargain hunting like that. Wasteful to give up premium assets to move point producers, to try to sign new UFAs.

 

We don't have assets to make another Hronek trade, unless you're talking about trading more 1sts and 2nds over the next couple drafts. Constantly trading 1st and 2nds is a great example of how to wreck your franchise. See: Canucks now.

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Ideally you find the production in a tougher, more complete player. One with more defensive acumen and hustle. Not that it would be easily done or anything.

Sadly, it wouldn't be.  You'd need a 45 point monster on the wing that was essentially garland with size and snarl.  That's a $5 million player and really doesn't exist on many teams in the league.

 

Boeser is the perfect odd man out due to his contract age and the issues with his health.  Both physical and mental.

 

But that HAS to be done with the caveat that his production would not be easily reproduced at all and taking away that level of production makes the Canucks a sub average scoring team if we aren't seeing improved production across the board.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, awalk said:

UFAs = bloated contracts. We might find another schenn like gem, but we don't need a ton of cap space for bargain hunting like that. Wasteful to give up premium assets to move point producers, to try to sign new UFAs.

 

We don't have assets to make another Hronek trade, unless you're talking about trading more 1sts and 2nds over the next couple drafts. Constantly trading 1st and 2nds is a great example of how to wreck your franchise. See: Canucks now.

A team that has essentially been drafting top 10 since about 2013/2014 that has some of the lowest prospect depth in the league as well as having drafted the lowest number of players in the league in comparison to other teams who have drafted comparably at their positions over the same amount of time CAN NOT be continually giving away 1st and 2nd round picks and pretending that somehow someway they can bargain bin their way in to quality depth.

 

it doesn't happen.

 

The end result is EXACTLY what we've seen.  Trading away high value picks to move cap space because we signed an overpriced contract in free agency; then using remaining picks or prospects hoping to find a star that just needed a change of scenery and when that doesn't happen we then trade away high value picks to another team that knows what we need and can bend us over for it.

 

Something has to change

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Sadly, it wouldn't be.  You'd need a 45 point monster on the wing that was essentially garland with size and snarl.  That's a $5 million player and really doesn't exist on many teams in the league.

 

Boeser is the perfect odd man out due to his contract age and the issues with his health.  Both physical and mental.

 

But that HAS to be done with the caveat that his production would not be easily reproduced at all and taking away that level of production makes the Canucks a sub average scoring team if we aren't seeing improved production across the board.

I agree. I was playing along with the other poster. I'm not on the playoffs or bust model of management so I would swap him out just to get the cap under control and begin to build the top 6 the right way production or no production this year ... but that's just me.

[Warhippy]

Just now, Gawdzukes said:

I agree. I was playing along with the other poster. I'm not on the playoffs or bust model of management so I would swap him out just to get the cap under control and begin to build the top 6 the right way production or no production this year ... but that's just me.

I'd agree to that as well.

 

My fear though is that cap space would immediately be spent on July 1st again.

 

Then we'd be looking for a way to move a contract and wondering how much value we'd have to add to do it.

[Smashian Kassian]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Who replaces Boeser .74 ppg production this season alone on the wing?  Or his .78 ppg career?

 

Those aren't easy numbers to replace and while a more versatile winger might also be a far better overall option; the Canucks were 12th in league scoring this year on the backs of career years fro Hughes and Petey but are more realistically a middle of the pack 14-16 team as the Knights, Avs, Pens and Canes all had down years for scoring behind the Canucks.  Ensuring that production is replaced will be essential; especially factoring in that a generous portion of our 260 goals scored came from Horvat before he left

 

Kuzmenko already did. Literally first year took Boeser's 1RW spot w/ Petey & scored 39 goals. Then they have a bunch of other wingers; Mikheyev, Garland, Beauvillier, also Podkolzin & Hoglander coming who have more to give. Lekkerimaki & Klimovich in the pipeline long-term. Wingers aren't a problem. 

 

I'm not anti-Brock, I think Brock can be really good but he's not a driver (or else we'd be better by now), and given his cap is 6.6 it gives you the most flexibility.

 

Even if they take a slight step back offensively to take a significant step forward defensively, we'll be further ahead. 

[awalk]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

A team that has essentially been drafting top 10 since about 2013/2014 that has some of the lowest prospect depth in the league as well as having drafted the lowest number of players in the league in comparison to other teams who have drafted comparably at their positions over the same amount of time CAN NOT be continually giving away 1st and 2nd round picks and pretending that somehow someway they can bargain bin their way in to quality depth.

 

it doesn't happen.

 

The end result is EXACTLY what we've seen.  Trading away high value picks to move cap space because we signed an overpriced contract in free agency; then using remaining picks or prospects hoping to find a star that just needed a change of scenery and when that doesn't happen we then trade away high value picks to another team that knows what we need and can bend us over for it.

 

Something has to change

It's pretty insane. The team is run as if they have been a perennial playoff team over the last decade and just needs that one or two extra players to get us to the cup finals. When in reality, if they had just leaned into being bad and been patient, we'd likely actually have assets and cap space right now, and actually have options to maneuver the current NHL landscape. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by awalk

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, awalk said:

UFAs = bloated contracts. We might find another schenn like gem, but we don't need a ton of cap space for bargain hunting like that. Wasteful to give up premium assets to move point producers, to try to sign new UFAs.

 

We don't have assets to make another Hronek trade, unless you're talking about trading more 1sts and 2nds over the next couple drafts. Constantly trading 1st and 2nds is a great example of how to wreck your franchise. See: Canucks now.

We can’t even sign Luke Schenn until we free up some cap space. So are you proposing we do nothing this summer? 

[awalk]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We can’t even sign Luke Schenn until we free up some cap space. So are you proposing we do nothing this summer? 

We'll have about 3-4mil of space with LTIR apparently.

 

But yes, it would be a dream if we did absolutely nothing until late in the summer, and only do some bargain bin shopping. 

 

The credit card is maxxed out. It's time to line up at the dollar general. Shopping at whole foods is off the table.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We can’t even sign Luke Schenn until we free up some cap space. So are you proposing we do nothing this summer? 

You can go over by like 10% of the cap in the off-season.  You only have to be 'cap compliant' just before the season starts.  It does back you in a corner obviously so there's an element of risk in doing that.  But are you Kirk or not?

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'd agree to that as well.

 

My fear though is that cap space would immediately be spent on July 1st again.

 

Then we'd be looking for a way to move a contract and wondering how much value we'd have to add to do it.

That would be Jim Benning's 'modus operendi'.  Trash like Luca Sbisa turns into Gudbranson.  That refuse then turns into Myers though at least in that case he played well for us for a few seasons.  Then he acquires OEL after giving up a 1st round pick to dump LE.

[Gawdzukes]

5 minutes ago, awalk said:

We'll have about 3-4mil of space with LTIR apparently.

 

But yes, it would be a dream if we did absolutely nothing until late in the summer, and only do some bargain bin shopping. 

 

The credit card is maxxed out. It's time to line up at the dollar general. Shopping at whole foods is off the table.

Wish I could give you multiple emoticons. Stop blowing money like some business tycoon's rich kid for just one second and we might just have a chance at competing.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Kuzmenko already did. Literally first year took Boeser's 1RW spot w/ Petey & scored 39 goals. Then they have a bunch of other wingers; Mikheyev, Garland, Beauvillier, also Podkolzin & Hoglander coming who have more to give. Lekkerimaki & Klimovich in the pipeline long-term. Wingers aren't a problem. 

 

I'm not anti-Brock, I think Brock can be really good but he's not a driver (or else we'd be better by now), and given his cap is 6.6 it gives you the most flexibility.

 

Even if they take a slight step back offensively to take a significant step forward defensively, we'll be further ahead. 

OK, so taking away career years and suprise production from Kuzmenko, Petey, Hughes.

 

lets shake this out.

 

Canucks at 12th overall in league scoring with 270 goals.

 

Lost Horvat -31 goals.

Losing Boeser -18 goals.

Call Kuzmenko to have a sophomore slump 28 goals (loss of 11 goals)

Pettersson to drop down to a 30 goal player as well (loss of 9 goals)

 

69 lost goals scored.  Yes that is the absolute high end and yes it is not generally fair to utilize Horvats monstrous pre trade production etc.  I am just playing devils advocate here because I also see Boeser as being the most logical piece to move.  But losing say 60-70 goals worth of production from season start to season start puts a 12th place in overall scoring Canucks team down to a bottom 8 team in the entire league.  While again not exactly fair, even losing 40 goals worth of production makes the Canucks a bottom 8 team.  

 

the levels of production have got to be far more evenly distributed but they haven't been at all over the past few seasons.  We saw some increased 4th line production this year for sure, but not appreciably and again it fell on the top 4-5 players to produce.  Losing Boeser means that it is now 4 players.  Hughes, Miller, Petey Kuzmenko.  While Boeser is not a driver as it was his numbers indicate he is a far more effective passer than some credit him for with 37 assists this year, 24 of them being primary.

 

We just have to know that once he's gone he's gone.  The canucks production could take a hit and without the depth to supplement it and without more career years from our top 4 producers we will slide.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

That would be Jim Benning's 'modus operendi'.  Trash like Luca Sbisa turns into Gudbranson.  That refuse then turns into Myers though at least in that case he played well for us for a few seasons.  Then he acquires OEL after giving up a 1st round pick to dump LE.

That's actually been the team MO since 2006.

 

We've only had 4 total years where we had more than a million in cap space at any given time through the season and much of those were in the mid 2000s

 

I fail to see how that would change sadly.  We have to many glaring holes in the lineup to fill and while the idea of trading back and maybe using that 11th to garner a later 1st a mid round pick and shedding some cap space is attractive.  we know that we'll then flip that cap space in to a bidding war for the best available UFA at that position like we always do.

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, awalk said:

We'll have about 3-4mil of space with LTIR apparently.

 

But yes, it would be a dream if we did absolutely nothing until late in the summer, and only do some bargain bin shopping. 

 

The credit card is maxxed out. It's time to line up at the dollar general. Shopping at whole foods is off the table.

That's not going to happen.  We will be quite active this summer I can guarantee you that.  We didn't trade a 1st and a 2nd to get a 26-year-old Dman to try and make the playoffs this season so that we can line up at the dollar store.  

[awalk]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

That's not going to happen.  We will be quite active this summer I can guarantee you that.  We didn't trade a 1st and a 2nd to get a 26-year-old Dman to try and make the playoffs this season so that we can line up at the dollar store.  

Sounds like a team committed to a cycle of mediocrity .

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

You can go over by like 10% of the cap in the off-season.  You only have to be 'cap compliant' just before the season starts.  It does back you in a corner obviously so there's an element of risk in doing that.  But are you Kirk or not?

 

 

Yes, for sure, and I can see that happening.  But that is quite different than doing nothing...

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, awalk said:

We'll have about 3-4mil of space with LTIR apparently.

 

But yes, it would be a dream if we did absolutely nothing until late in the summer, and only do some bargain bin shopping. 

 

The credit card is maxxed out. It's time to line up at the dollar general. Shopping at whole foods is off the table.

I wish we'd do like some of the other teams around the league and actually keep some cap space available. Spending to the cap hasn't done much for us at all the past ten years or so. 

[Warhippy]

19 minutes ago, awalk said:

It's pretty insane. The team is run as if they have been a perennial playoff team over the last decade and just needs that one or two extra players to get us to the cup finals. When in reality, if they had just leaned into being bad and been patient, we'd likely actually have assets and cap space right now, and actually have options to maneuver the current NHL landscape. 

And there in lies the rub.

 

When you go back to 2013 and look at the teams that have consistently drafted top 10.  It's kind of an indictment 

 

Buffalo

Florida

Edmonton

Colorado

Tampa

Carolina

New York

New Jersey

Toronto

Columbus

Arizona

Philly

Ottawa

Vancouver

 

ALL of these teams in the last 10 years have drafted top 10 a minimum of 3+ times.  For some of them they were on the tail end of a decade long run of failure or just had some down years or they got some lottery luck.  They are the ones crossed out.  When you look at that list, which team stands out as having the worst draft success, worst draft capital yet still spending to the cap every single year with the least success for it?

 

Edit*. Even more, out of all of those only one team has consistently either traded their first or 2nd round picks, or managed to flub a first round pick.  Hint, it rhymes with no-funcouver

Edited May 25, 2023 by Warhippy

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, awalk said:

Sounds like a team committed to a cycle of mediocrity .

Pretty sure that Jim Rutherford already explained the plan to the fanbase.  Did you miss his interview?

 

You may not like what is going on, but we are not rebuilding.  We are retooling on the fly.  Getting Hronek was just the first step.  There is alot more to come...

Edited May 25, 2023 by Elias Pettersson