Bennings terrible pro scouting and player analysis

[thrago]

19 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

And used words like messy, flubbed, traded a tonne of picks, worst salary cap ever… Yeah, benefit of the doubt just after you cut of their head.

That was in response to you saying the difference they have made is amazing, which so far they haven't but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, as they have done some good things, Kuzi has been great, the Horvat trade was pretty good, the Hronek trade seems fair so far but we need to see how he does and more importantly what he re-signs for as well as Petey which is why I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt till the beginning of the 2024 season.  What I'm seeing so far is some good stuff and some bad stuff and a head-scratcher.  

 

I didn't like them at all until they re-signed Kuzi and traded Bo, which made me lengthen the leash, but I would still like to know what this amazing difference you said they have made is?  I'm certainly not rooting against PA, I definitely want him to succeed here.  I like PA more than JR that's for sure and I'm glad he seems to have taken more control of the team. JR on the other hand I'm glad he's decided to talk less as he always seems to me like he thinks his Poop doesn't stink and it definitely does.

 

As for Benning he did some good stuff and some bad stuff and in hindsight, he should have been fired before he got the chance to trade for OEL, which is a trade that just wreaks of a desperate GM throwing a hail Mary. 

[Timråfan]

33 minutes ago, thrago said:

That was in response to you saying the difference they have made is amazing, which so far they haven't but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, as they have done some good things, Kuzi has been great, the Horvat trade was pretty good, the Hronek trade seems fair so far but we need to see how he does and more importantly what he re-signs for as well as Petey which is why I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt till the beginning of the 2024 season.  What I'm seeing so far is some good stuff and some bad stuff and a head-scratcher.  

 

I didn't like them at all until they re-signed Kuzi and traded Bo, which made me lengthen the leash, but I would still like to know what this amazing difference you said they have made is?  I'm certainly not rooting against PA, I definitely want him to succeed here.  I like PA more than JR that's for sure and I'm glad he seems to have taken more control of the team. JR on the other hand I'm glad he's decided to talk less as he always seems to me like he thinks his Poop doesn't stink and it definitely does.

 

As for Benning he did some good stuff and some bad stuff and in hindsight, he should have been fired before he got the chance to trade for OEL, which is a trade that just wreaks of a desperate GM throwing a hail Mary. 

I’m a bit curious, what is the bad stuff and headsratching?

[thrago]

6 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I’m a bit curious, what is the bad stuff and headsratching?

Bad stuff trading away way too many draft picks, and signing too many wingers to too much of our cap,  we are over the cap going into the offseason, which I can't remember ever happening before. Head scratching any time JR opened his mouth for one but most importantly the terrible way they treated BB not only before they finally fired him but from the end of last season until they fired him. 

 

But I keep answering your questions, and you still keep avoiding telling me the amazing difference that they have made, I truly would like to know what it is? 

[Timråfan]

4 minutes ago, thrago said:

Bad stuff trading away way too many draft picks, and signing too many wingers to too much of our cap,  we are over the cap going into the offseason, which I can't remember ever happening before. Head scratching any time JR opened his mouth for one but most importantly the terrible way they treated BB not only before they finally fired him but from the end of last season until they fired him. 

 

But I keep answering your questions, and you still keep avoiding telling me the amazing difference that they have made, I truly would like to know what it is? 

Well, I’ve been around and got a lot of hostility since I said Benning was a bad man because he is saving his own face all the time. Laying the blame on others while posters here thought he was honest.

 

The new management is completely different there. They can say that a coach is doing it the wrong way going forward. 
That is a healthy sign, not something bad.

Especially since it was quite clear that JR had right about BB.

PA trust the organisation they got in place.

 

It is quite amazing to have a modern organisation with modern leaders in place.

Benning was old school, really bad as a leader and bad as a moral/ethic example for the players.

 

[Law of Goalies]

To be fair, Forsling was a late bloomer. For Chatfield, the AHL coach didn't like him and didn't think he was good enough as whether the junior squad gets called up depends on the AHL coach. Therefore, the AHL coach at that time sucked but that is why he was fired eventually.

 

[dougieL]

I'm no Benning apologist, and I know this has nothing to do with professional scouting, but I've always been curious whether Benning wanted to pick Pastrnak in 2014 but couldn't because of his work with the Bruins leading up to the 2014 draft. Is this at all a possibility?

[TopChed]

5 hours ago, Timråfan said:

I’m a bit curious, what is the bad stuff and headsratching?

Off the top of my head.

 

A 3rd for Dermott, Brocks extension, Lekkerimaki, paying a mid 1st and a high 2nd for potentially damaged goods, the classless way they treated Bruce, hiring and firing Dorrie in a hot minute did they just not do any diligence there at all? 

 

There is stuff to like too, Bains, Hirose, Kuzzmenko, Mikheyev, Raty, Aman, Johansen but my first impression was pretty terrible. We will see how Tocchet does this year.  

[Baggins]

8 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Forsling was starting to show qualities NHL D-Man at age 23 and 24. Bieksa was a 5th round and made it to the NHL around that age. Most D-Men drafted late tend to take that timeline to develop to an NHL'er. As for Forsling moving from Chicago to Carolina. Chicago traded Forsling for an NHL D-Man their playoff run so it's not like Chicago gave Forsling up for nothing . Carolina, looking at their roster that season, probably had no room for Forsling in the main roster and waived him to develop in the minors and happened to get claimed. So i don't think him going to two organziaitions had less to Chicago and Carolina incorrectly assessing Forsling than organizational circumstances and the moment. Benning was a complete mis-assessment as well as inpatience. Like if both Clendenning and Forsling had the same ceiling and skillset as how Benning saw it why would Chicago give up a more NHL ready player over a long term prospect considering Chicago, at the time, wasn't exactly thinking of the future.  

He was traded long before that age, just 7 months after being drafted. Still a longshot. It has nothing to do with mis-assessment. Chicago, a contender, had a waiver elligible big d-man with good AHL numbers. Being a contender they had better options and, again, he was waiver elligible. Chicago needed futures at that point and we needed young d-men who weren't 5 years away. It was just a trade where each side got what they were looking for. 

[TopChed]

3 hours ago, Law of Goalies said:

To be fair, Forsling was a late bloomer. For Chatfield, the AHL coach didn't like him and didn't think he was good enough as whether the junior squad gets called up depends on the AHL coach. Therefore, the AHL coach at that time sucked but that is why he was fired eventually.

 

Forsling was a 5th round pick

He promptly set the world on fire at the u18 and then the u20. After which he was flipped for Clendenning. As a 19 yearold he was a 0.5ppg in the SHL then made the jump to the NHL as a 20 yearold where he has progressed steadily every year. 

 

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

6 minutes ago, TopChed said:

Forsling was a 5th round pick

He promptly set the world on fire at the u18 and then the u20. After which he was flipped for Clendenning. As a 19 yearold he was a 0.5ppg in the SHL then made the jump to the NHL as a 20 yearold where he has progressed steadily every year. 

Kind of misleading. Yes, he played some NHL games at 20 years old, but he spent parts of four seasons in the AHL before becoming a full-time NHLer at the age of 24. You make it sound as though he made the NHL at 20 and has been there ever since. Not true.

[TopChed]

1 minute ago, Curmudgeon said:

Kind of misleading. Yes, he played some NHL games at 20 years old, but he spent parts of four seasons in the AHL before becoming a full-time NHLer at the age of 24. You make it sound as though he made the NHL at 20 and has been there ever since. Not true.

Forsling was a 5th round pick.  Thats pretty normal I think no?

[Baggins]

41 minutes ago, TopChed said:

Forsling was a 5th round pick

He promptly set the world on fire at the u18 and then the u20. After which he was flipped for Clendenning. As a 19 yearold he was a 0.5ppg in the SHL then made the jump to the NHL as a 20 yearold where he has progressed steadily every year. 

 

 

 

So you're saying Chicago and Carolina really screwed up?

[Timråfan]

52 minutes ago, TopChed said:

Off the top of my head.

 

A 3rd for Dermott, Brocks extension, Lekkerimaki, paying a mid 1st and a high 2nd for potentially damaged goods, the classless way they treated Bruce, hiring and firing Dorrie in a hot minute did they just not do any diligence there at all? 

 

There is stuff to like too, Bains, Hirose, Kuzzmenko, Mikheyev, Raty, Aman, Johansen but my first impression was pretty terrible. We will see how Tocchet does this year.  

After watching Lekkerimäki in the qualification series I say it’s a hit. Very mature player that.

 

A 3rd for Dermott? 
That isn’t anything to fuss about. Pretty cheap backup.
With Boeser they were shoved in between a rock and a hard place. If they had gotten rid of him without anything coming back half the CDC would have complained and said PA does the same as Benning as in letting players go for free, Toffoli, Tanev…

 

I take Hronek seven days a week before those two picks.

Remember that PA has done a thorough check what injuries Hronek has and if it was damaged goods he wouldn’t have gone through with it.

This isn’t Benning forcing the Canucks to take damaged goods that no one would insure even, Ferland.

Can you actually believe a GM that would do something like that without taking money for himself under the table?

Taking a concussion riddled player that no insurance company would insure because of the injuries.

When you can say the same about Hronek I will listen.

The funny part is that there is almost none here that criticies Benning for that deal.

That is by far worse than the OEL trade.

It is so mind numbing stupid so the new management can never do anything like that.

[spook007]

3 hours ago, TopChed said:

Off the top of my head.

 

A 3rd for Dermott, Brocks extension, Lekkerimaki, paying a mid 1st and a high 2nd for potentially damaged goods, the classless way they treated Bruce, hiring and firing Dorrie in a hot minute did they just not do any diligence there at all? 

 

There is stuff to like too, Bains, Hirose, Kuzzmenko, Mikheyev, Raty, Aman, Johansen but my first impression was pretty terrible. We will see how Tocchet does this year.  

I was not on the Lekkerimaki train, but I wouldn't say it was a head scratcher... 

And the Hronek trade is definitely not a head scratcher... They want to compete NOW...

 

4th line players paid like 4th line players. 
Pulling the trigger if players want too much, is a nice change as well. 
And as for Dorrie, do you know, why she was fired, like specifics? I'm pleased they built a big front office, where everyone has a voice. But they still have to play to the same tune... there could be many reasons, why she was asked to leave, so I have zero problems with that. Maybe she was dead against the direction JR/PA laid out? 
Imagine a font office of CDC'ers and most of them wanting a total rebuild, but one or two wants a retool only... flipping heck, it would end up in nothing but arguments over the direction 

 

If I should find a negative it would be not getting rid of one of our highly paid wingers at the TDL. Even retaining a bit could have worked. They are too expensive for 3rd line duty, but thats my only big beef just now. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by spook007

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, TopChed said:

Forsling was a 5th round pick.  Thats pretty normal I think no?

12.5% of ALL picks past the third round collectively, play 100 games in the NHL.  That's like one every 8 years on average.     So that's rounds 4,5,6,7 clumped together.   It is not normal at all, that Forsling would make it. 

[thrago]

11 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Well, I’ve been around and got a lot of hostility since I said Benning was a bad man because he is saving his own face all the time. Laying the blame on others while posters here thought he was honest.

 

The new management is completely different there. They can say that a coach is doing it the wrong way going forward. 
That is a healthy sign, not something bad.

Especially since it was quite clear that JR had right about BB.

PA trust the organisation they got in place.

 

It is quite amazing to have a modern organisation with modern leaders in place.

Benning was old school, really bad as a leader and bad as a moral/ethic example for the players.

 

I noticed the things you're talking about when PA took more of a leading role and JR stepped back. Roughly around late February. I'm really hoping they can figure a way to get out of their cap situation without dumping more picks if they can do I will have a lot more confidence moving forward.

[Baggins]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

12.5% of ALL picks past the third round collectively, play 100 games in the NHL.  That's like one every 8 years on average.     So that's rounds 4,5,6,7 clumped together.   It is not normal at all, that Forsling would make it. 

Not to mention 100 NHL games is a low bar. Even 200 NHL games doesn't automatically equate to "impact player". First rounders Jordan Schroeder and Brendan Gaunce played 165 and 153 games respectively. From Forslings 2014 draft class there's 4 players taken in the 5th round with 100 or more NHL games. Of those four, three have made it to 200 games, and only two of those to 300 games in 9 years. None of those four are currently with the team that drafted them.

[spook007]

2 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Not to mention 100 NHL games is a low bar. Even 200 NHL games doesn't automatically equate to "impact player". First rounders Jordan Schroeder and Brendan Gaunce played 165 and 153 games respectively. From Forslings 2014 draft class there's 4 players taken in the 5th round with 100 or more NHL games. Of those four, three have made it to 200 games, and only two of those to 300 games in 9 years. None of those four are currently with the team that drafted them.

How about the golden boy Gaudette....

He was drafted in 2015. Should we have held on to him a longer?

Or imagine what we could have gotten for him, had we traded for him a little earlier... The steal of the draft as Pierre McGuire called him, Honey Baker award etc... 

 

Of course you hold on to him, hoping he'll continue his progress, but nobody knows, what happens next.

He hardly brought the house down. He is now 26, so the question is, how long do you hang on to these players? 

[Baggins]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

How about the golden boy Gaudette....

He was drafted in 2015. Should we have held on to him a longer?

Or imagine what we could have gotten for him, had we traded for him a little earlier... The steal of the draft as Pierre McGuire called him, Honey Baker award etc... 

 

Of course you hold on to him, hoping he'll continue his progress, but nobody knows, what happens next.

He hardly brought the house down. He is now 26, so the question is, how long do you hang on to these players? 

Benning is truly an idiot! He was tricked by Mcguire into drafting the Honey Baker winner instead of the Hobey Baker? 

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Benning is truly an idiot! He was tricked by Mcguire into drafting the Honey Baker winner instead of the Hobey Baker? 

 

Another slight spelling mishap...