[discussion] big summer tocchett

[Angry Goose]

(Barring any legit hockey trades)

 

Im not really into the idea of spending assets to move players, especially if they’re decent players like Garland or Boeser.

 

Myers and Beauvillier will probably get moved at some point in the season/TDL.  

 

So why not just see whether Tocchett’s message gets through over the summer? Realistically he just needs to squeeze as much as he can out of this group for 1 season, before the cap jumps in 24-25.

 

And who knows, maybe we see marked improvement under his guidance.  I think this team showed it can put the puck in the net-it just needs to be decent defensively. If not, its not like we arnt used to seeing this team bellyflop either.

 

Realistically, once the Canucks sort out their LTIR situation they need to try find a depth C that can help on the PK. Whether thats a low cost option through free agency or trade Im all ears. 

 

I was team trade half the team this off season but that aint happening.  My hope now is that they have a better year, heck maybe even a decently competitive year that can help lead to future flexibility/improvement.   

 

We’re counting on you Tocc. 

[Angry Goose]

Mod: If this belongs in Canucks Talk have at it

[Guest]

Our team is pretty set as is.  

 

Hoglander, Hirose, Bear, Juulsen, Burroughs...  all guys around the edges that we can bring back for cheap (except for Bear).  

 

As you said, patience is the best course of action.  Let the management spend all their time and effort on finding the next Nils Aman / Filip Johansson since they don't really have that much to deal with on our own roster.  

 

I am pretty confident that Tocchet will bring results next year. Can't wait to see what kinda shape guys show up in for the pre-season. 

[chon derry]

Bear , hronek  coming in with familiarity vs thrown in cold and coming off injury and a healthy mikheyev won’t hurt. 

[Nucker 67]

9 hours ago, chon derry said:

Bear , hronek  coming in with familiarity vs thrown in cold and coming off injury and a healthy mikheyev won’t hurt. 

Good point. The Canucks will have a healthy (and fast) Mikheyev and we'll finally see what Hronek can do when healthy. 

 

The additions of Hoglander, McDonough and possibly Karlsson would be nice. An really hoping OEL found the fountain of youth in this off season and is training hard.

 

Maybe we see a Demko-Silovs tandem this season?  Never know what will happen with great goaltending.

 

 

[smithers joe]

kuzmenko, pettersson line needs some grit on it, someone who can step up if k and p are getting manhandled.

 

pods might fit in with miller, mikheyev line

a play driving 3c with players we got.

a tough stay at home rd for huggy, and another for hronek.

we got lots of 3rd pairing d men. too many.

4 new players over 2 years.

[Nucker 67]

12 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

kuzmenko, pettersson line needs some grit on it, someone who can step up if k and p are getting manhandled.

 

pods might fit in with miller, mikheyev line

a play driving 3c with players we got.

a tough stay at home rd for huggy, and another for hronek.

we got lots of 3rd pairing d men. too many.

4 new players over 2 years.

Do you think Joshua might get a shot? I imagine he's training like a mofo this offseason, not wanting to disappoint Tocchet. 

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Joshua

 

[EdgarM]

25 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

kuzmenko, pettersson line needs some grit on it, someone who can step up if k and p are getting manhandled.

 

pods might fit in with miller, mikheyev line

a play driving 3c with players we got.

a tough stay at home rd for huggy, and another for hronek.

we got lots of 3rd pairing d men. too many.

4 new players over 2 years.

I think your assessment is Bang on Joe. We need that grit to add to our existing line up. Ones that can go into the corners and boards and come up with the puck to dish to our skilled guys. I really think Joshua has a good chance as they tried him out last season and he looked promising.

The big question remains with who will play with Mik and Miller, Boes, Beau or Garland. I think we keep only one of the three. All three were given the opportunity last season and I didn't see a clear winner as to who had the best chemistry for the line. 

Big priority is to find the same for Hronek and Hughes as well. Hoping OEL can play well enough to pair with Hronek but finding a partner for Hughes is huge right now. 

Bear is redundant as we have players who play like him already. The best we could do is put him into the third pairing but I think he has too much skill for that. He would have made a good second pairing guy. 

They seem to be able to add some good supporting cast members so far and I suspect they will do even better once they shed some cap space and are able to remove some redundant players from the past regime.

 

11 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Do you think Joshua might get a shot? I imagine he's training like a mofo this offseason, not wanting to disappoint Tocchet. 

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Joshua

 

This is a strong possibility, he would balance that line out for sure.

[smithers joe]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Do you think Joshua might get a shot? I imagine he's training like a mofo this offseason, not wanting to disappoint Tocchet. 

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Joshua

 

that is what toc wants but he went away from it last year. i don't know what he saw, that he didn't like. i really like joshua

toc also played burroughs with huggy too but he wants a more talented burroughs with him.

[DrJockitch]

Because a group that features a 5'8"winger, a 5'10"winger, and two 5'11" wingers in the top 6 is being asked to play a North-South forecheck style game.

Oh and best winger prospect 5'8", current 3rd line centre 5'10".  Top D 5'10", other top 4 D 5'11"X2.

This is a team that is not really built to play Tocchet's style.  Getting Milk back will help and if Podz can slide up to top 6 will be a big help but as we are structured we are not built for how we are being asked to play.

Summer training isn't going to fix that, summer trading is.

[EdgarM]

36 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Because a group that features a 5'8"winger, a 5'10"winger, and two 5'11" wingers in the top 6 is being asked to play a North-South forecheck style game.

Oh and best winger prospect 5'8", current 3rd line centre 5'10".  Top D 5'10", other top 4 D 5'11"X2.

This is a team that is not really built to play Tocchet's style.  Getting Milk back will help and if Podz can slide up to top 6 will be a big help but as we are structured we are not built for how we are being asked to play.

Summer training isn't going to fix that, summer trading is.

Kuzmenko  5'11"    Petterson  6'2"   Joshua? 6'3"

 

Mikheyev 6'2"         Miller    6'1"       Boeser ? 6'1"

                                                         Beauvillier ? 5' 11"

                                                         Garland ? 5'10"

 

We definitely need bigger, shutdown D in the top 4 to play with Hronek and Hughes. 

I think the key components are there we just need to add the right complimentary players in the line up. 

The good thing is that they should come a lot cheaper then what we already have, getting rid of some of our smaller wingers should help with that.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think Tocchet can really make this team a lot better, sure, but we still have too many expensive wingers, don't have a 3C and our defence is still fairly thin.

 

We have two of the best top-6 centers in the league.

We have one of the best winger depth in the league.

We have one of the best puck moving defencemen in the league.
We have one of the best goalies in the league.

 

Lots to like from this team but the middle part of our depth is lacking a bit.

 

I would point out - which one of our defencemen would crack a playoff team? Hughes and Hronek - that's it. We have work to do there for sure.

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Kuzmenko  5'11"    Petterson  6'2"   Joshua? 6'3"

 

Mikheyev 6'2"         Miller    6'1"       Boeser ? 6'1"

                                                         Beauvillier ? 5' 11"

                                                         Garland ? 5'10"

 

We definitely need bigger, shutdown D in the top 4 to play with Hronek and Hughes. 

I think the key components are there we just need to add the right complimentary players in the line up. 

The good thing is that they should come a lot cheaper then what we already have, getting rid of some of our smaller wingers should help with that.

I like Joshua a lot. He is a 4th liner. They tried playing him up it didn’t work. 
Garland is 5’10” in skates maybe.  Boeser is the softest 6’1 I have seen and Beau provides some forecheck pressure but that is about it. 
Like I said Mik help if healthy. 
Even with your very generous heights and sizes and assignments this is a small forward lineup. It just is. 

[EdgarM]

17 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I like Joshua a lot. He is a 4th liner. They tried playing him up it didn’t work. 
Garland is 5’10” in skates maybe.  Boeser is the softest 6’1 I have seen and Beau provides some forecheck pressure but that is about it. 
Like I said Mik help if healthy. 
Even with your very generous heights and sizes and assignments this is a small forward lineup. It just is. 

All those heights come from Canuck.com I didn't make them up. 

I agree about Garland, Boeser and Beauvillier but I am guessing we are going to get stuck with at least one of them for the time being at least. Not ideal for sure.

I think size we are Ok its really if they can play to their size or not. Kuz is 194lbs and Petey 176lbs. Kuz should be able to hold his own but Petey needs to add a bit more muscle I believe.

[EdgarM]

30 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think Tocchet can really make this team a lot better, sure, but we still have too many expensive wingers, don't have a 3C and our defence is still fairly thin.

 

We have two of the best top-6 centers in the league.

We have one of the best winger depth in the league.

We have one of the best puck moving defencemen in the league.
We have one of the best goalies in the league.

 

Lots to like from this team but the middle part of our depth is lacking a bit.

 

I would point out - which one of our defencemen would crack a playoff team? Hughes and Hronek - that's it. We have work to do there for sure.

Yes we have a good base to work with but adding those final pieces and then making them gel together is going to be tricky. It finally looks like we have direction and I can see it coming together. 

Having Cup experience in the Coaching and Management Departments is definitely a plus.

[DrJockitch]

JR has a history of going after big fast guys on the wings. Once they clear out a bit more of Benning’s team maybe we will see more of that. 
Again if Mik is healthy and playing at his prime and Podz can take a step the top 6 has taken a step in the right direction. 
I am not worried about EP’s physicality. You can see the leaps and bounds his physicality has taken since the wrist healed last year. 
Kuz is guaranteed a spot in top 6 and Brock is likely the other spot as now asking not to get traded and he is clearly hard to trade anyway. 
If that works I have no idea how to fit Garland, Hoglander and Beau into the bottom 6. Somebody has to kill penalties in the bottom 6. 
I do hope we have some movement this off-season. Team needs to move players out first. 

[Goal:thecup]

2 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Because a group that features a 5'8"winger, a 5'10"winger, and two 5'11" wingers in the top 6 is being asked to play a North-South forecheck style game.

Oh and best winger prospect 5'8", current 3rd line centre 5'10".  Top D 5'10", other top 4 D 5'11"X2.

This is a team that is not really built to play Tocchet's style.  Getting Milk back will help and if Podz can slide up to top 6 will be a big help but as we are structured we are not built for how we are being asked to play.

Summer training isn't going to fix that, summer trading is.

Agree, but it doesn't all have to get done this summer.  This season?  Yes, but including all of next off-season too.

[Angry Goose]

On 6/8/2023 at 12:18 PM, DrJockitch said:

Because a group that features a 5'8"winger, a 5'10"winger, and two 5'11" wingers in the top 6 is being asked to play a North-South forecheck style game.

Oh and best winger prospect 5'8", current 3rd line centre 5'10".  Top D 5'10", other top 4 D 5'11"X2.

This is a team that is not really built to play Tocchet's style.  Getting Milk back will help and if Podz can slide up to top 6 will be a big help but as we are structured we are not built for how we are being asked to play.

Summer training isn't going to fix that, summer trading is.

 

The point of the post was whether you would pay assets to trade players, or, see what Tocchett and co can do to help for a season?

 

As I stated in the post, trade flexibility gets a whole lot easier by the TDL/next off season.  The question is whether you can roll with more or less the same roster until then.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Angry Goose

[Ted Lasso]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:49 PM, Angry Goose said:

 

The point of the post was whether you would pay assets to trade players, or, see what Tocchett and co can do to help for a season?

 

As I stated in the post, trade flexibility gets a whole lot easier by the TDL/next off season.  The question is whether you can roll with more or less the same roster until then.

 

 

If there are no reasonable trades, I’d prefer we see what we can do with the current roster. That said, I expect trades to open up after the first wave of UFA signings

 

 

 

 

 

[Citizen Erased]

Yes, I think the Canucks would be better off to see what Tocchet can do with this roster when healthy. 
 

My only concern is guys on expiring contracts catching too much fire and they end up receiving extensions. I’m mostly talking about Myers and Beau though.