Former President Linden: "I tried to have a longer vision, but at times that didn't work for people."

[Citizen Erased]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Yeah unfortunately he passed away before that could happen.  

It would be difficult to lose him any time, but that was really bad timing.

 

I wish he was still with us. I’m sure he would be proud of and happy for George McPhee.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Kellan Lain if I remember right but who knows, I could be confusing marginal historical Canucks.

 

Next up, my retrospective on Jim Agnew.

Hey there was nobody more marginal than Leif Rohlin on the Canucks!  Guy had a far better career overseas but the Canucks had him on their 'protected list' for I think like a decade for some reason.

[SilentSam]

On 7/1/2023 at 2:07 AM, Dr. Crossbar said:

I'm so glad you pointed out the timing of his hiring and the Sedins extension. We rushed to sign them without waiting to see how that season - and the change - would evolve.

 

We should have waited to see if the Sedins fit into the changes. At the time, I remember thinking ... we're locking these guys in when we KNOW we have to change. We re-signed Edler that year, too. 

 

We signed those guys in an attempt to make good on 2011 when it was over by that point.

 

Even earlier ... when we didn't bring back Ehrhoff, that was the point that proved we weren't serious. Yet we were making decisions as if we could get back to another kick at the can.

 

The wheels of the next decade were set in motion before Torts and Linden. 

 

 

Re-signing the Sedins may have been our future team taking the hit.

 

We traded Linden to advance the Team, and we should have with the Sedins..

 

l wonder,  hypothetical,  what they could have returned to us in the 2nd last season before they were signing their last contract.

 

I think it’s the lack of moving on from players that’s always been a difficult pill to swallow in this town that has hurt us.

 

Im so glad we traded Horvat for this same reason.

…. I see moving on from  Demko within what’s left of his current contract ,  if Silovs excels quicker than expected, it will happen quicker.

 

And even though I’m a huge JT fan, we should appropriately look at the right time to move him on as well for the Teams future.… I think it will happen in the 4th or 5th season of his current contract unless the team is a heavy playoff contender.

 

Timing is everything when releasing good players and getting a good return.. that’s good attrition.

 

Hanging on,  because they’re “loved” in a community,  is NOT good for a franchise.

 

 

ps.  Linden was not a good hockey ops manager,.  Just like Gretzky was not a good coach

Edited July 4, 2023 by SilentSam

[dougieL]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:33 PM, IBatch said:

Re-signing the Sedins was bittersweet.   On one hand, we had them their entire careers.   Rare.   Sakic.  Yzerman.  Lidstrom.   It was rare before, and after the lockout became a thing of the past really.   Almost all teams say goodbye to their players at some point now, regardless of how good or great they are.   Ovi and Crosby, you just never do know, but they do appear to be with their teams until the end.   Ovi is about to go through a re-tool, maybe even a full rebuild for the first time in his career.

 

Crosby is close to that as well.    Other HHOFers  (or future ones) around the Sedins age  went elsewhere, Iginla, Thornton, Marleau, Alfie even had a kick at a can with Detroit.   Believe this was a little bit divisive with a certain portion of the fanbase, myself included a little bit, that they didn't want to chase a cup.   

 

At 33, they signed a higher cap percentage deal than the previous one.   They were virtually impossible to trade even with 50% retention as a pair.    The time to rebuild, of course in hindsight, would have been then.   And just let them walk.    That's a pretty bad PR situation to deal with.    Two of the greatest Canucks ever, and only a couple years removed from a brief moment at the tippy top.    

 

As for Erhoff, wouldn't at all consider that a pivotal moment,  the team was very wise not to match the deal he got.   Fell off a cliff soon after, and we had other PP options.   Hamhuis and Bieksa were more imperative, and important to the team.    Arguably one of the best pairs we've ever had, and for sure considered our top pairing during the Sedins peak.   Bieksa never got his chance to run the PP,  even though him and Hamhuis has the toughest assignments, and one year he tied Weber for most points 5 x 5 in the league.   Erhoff of course was an important player during his brief time here.   Helped make the sum of its parts better than individual pieces.     But we couldn't afford him.   And it was better for us right away cap wise. 

 

As a gentle reminder, the Sedins got paid very well their entire time with us.   Even during the WCE era, they got a very very hefty bridge cap percentage wise (8.5%ish each), too much really for what they'd done up to then.   But one thing that helped us, was the 2009 financial crisis and the timing of their legacy contract.   Flat cap and we got them both for around 22% of the overall cap during their peak, and they signed for 5 years to get the most money they possibly could for what they'd done up to then.   They were paid to be PPG guys, but we got a couple years of over the top production.   

 

Their last deal... same for Burrows and Bieksa, the team kind overpaid to make up, or at least it kind of seemed that way to me, despite being UFAs.    The Sedins on the open market, would have gone their separate ways to get close to the same contracts they got at the end.   Not sure why the team didn't leverage that a little bit, if we really wanted to have another crack at it, the Sedins should have left at least one million each on table, instead they got an extra half or so percentage point each, and never waived.

 

It was tough before that, having two guys take up that much cap.    Why we always had Kesler with whatever else they could swing.     WCE era had goaltending issues.    And was mostly a one line team (Sedins just couldn't handle that type of pre-lockout hockey, after the Linden era just felt like a one line team really).   Peak Sedin era also had its challenges, it's what happens.  

 

In reality, the best thing for the team, would have been to offer them 5-6 million dollar deals, which still would have been very fair given their age and the cap back then,  but instead gave them raises.   MG deserves and for sure earned some of his criticism.    For sure ended up with correctly coined "Country Club" mentality.   They were all extremely well paid, also back then the BC taxes were on par with Alberta.    Even Hansen was given a full NTC.   Won't complain too much because that was a great team, and a great time to be a fan.   But tactically it was a failed opportunity. 

 

Always knew, best case, that after that deal,  it would be part of post Sedin core 1 (which we now have) and parts of the core behind it, that best case, we'd contend again:    Each cup final appearance took a little longer.    We got virtually zilch other than Horvat and Sutter from that great team.    Sad but true.   Expansion teams from the old rules for more to work with.     A decade between Edler's and Horvats draft (9 years I think).   Part of that was from all the winning, but equal parts bad drafting.  Only one first was traded along the way.    It's not like we were Detroit and year after year, trading our first to give the team the best chance to win a cup. 

 

The exchange for all the winning from 2000-2014,  and doing that final deal, was we got the Sedins from start to finish.   Look at CHI.   They won 3 cups, and still sent Kane and all rest over the years packing.    Can see why some folks aren't super happy about this.  

 

JB for sure had enough time, also I have no illusions he or anyone else for that matter was ever going to make another contending core back to back to back.   If Holland couldn't do it in Detroit, why would anyone expect JB to somehow manage it?    Not with 30-32 teams.  And glad that we had the Sedins from start to finish because it was unlikely to matter that much anyways.   At least the team was very classy about how we treated them.  And now they are helping us.  Hope one day they can get their names on a cup.   

Those players are legends of the game and Cup winners. All but Ovechkin are multiple Cup winners. The Sedins are nowhere near those guys.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 hours ago, dougieL said:

Those players are legends of the game and Cup winners. All but Ovechkin are multiple Cup winners. The Sedins are nowhere near those guys.

Just HHOFers.  Ovechkin is a legend fellating Putin.  Ovechpuke couldn't carry Marcel Dionne's jockstrap (and he also has no Cups)

Edited July 4, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan