Former President Linden: "I tried to have a longer vision, but at times that didn't work for people."

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, Timråfan said:

So you agree that Benning was spineless then. And is the reason the Canucks lost 6 years.

The GM is supposed to take control of the team. If he lets the owner interfer he is spineless and to weak to be a GM.

If Benning didn’t have any owner interfer it’s all on Benning.

 

Both situations the GM is the fault.

 

Comprehension is an issue still I see. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

So, there's a massive contradiction that no one is addressing when it comes to Linden, and one that he, himself, needs to own.

 

I love the guy and feel for the messy position he was in. But ...

 

Linden said it was a mess when he got the role and accurately admitted to the mixed messages of trying to rebuild and retool on the fly ... “We were probably trying to play both sides of it too much,” Linden admitted. “Someone in my spot, I tried to have a longer vision, but at times that didn’t work for people.”

 

But here's the issue ... 

 

He also admits to the amount of NTCs and the Sedins as major obstacles ... and that he, himself, was not willing to break those contracts. 

 

“It was a tough spot because there was a lot of players on contracts that were difficult, that weren’t really moveable. There was a lot of [players with no-trade clauses]. There was a lot of difficulty there. Obviously, you’ve got two iconic players, Hall of Fame players, that I wasn’t prepared to ask them to move.”

 

So, it's fine for Linden to say he was the one to have a longer vision and come off looking like the good rebuild guy ... BUT ... In his own words ... he was also the guy who wasn't prepared to break the immoveable contracts.

 

So in many ways he was also preventing that longer vision from actually happening by making the decision to honor the Sedins contracts and the upwards of 10 immovable contracts at the time.

 

In hindsight ... the full tear down should have happened after the Torts season, when your experienced Stanley Cup winning coach says the core is stale. And it's sad now because Torts was right in so many ways ... even the focus on blocking shots. 

 

I love Linden and he really was caught between a rock and a hard place, a really messy situation. I don't fault him for honoring those contracts ... it's the professional and honorable thing to do. And it would have been excruciating to watch the Sedins hoist the Cup with another team. More salt in the wound. So, what do you do. I didn't envy the guy.

 

But looking back, it is clear that a different and perhaps more painful decision should have been made instead of trying to have things both ways, playing both sides. That old saying is around for a reason.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Dr. Crossbar

[canuck73_3]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

So, there's a massive contradiction that no one is addressing when it comes to Linden, and one that he, himself, needs to own.

 

I love the guy and feel for the messy position he was in. But ...

 

Linden said it was a mess when he got the role and accurately admitted to the mixed messages of trying to rebuild and retool on the fly ... “We were probably trying to play both sides of it too much,” Linden admitted. “Someone in my spot, I tried to have a longer vision, but at times that didn’t work for people.”

 

But here's the issue ... 

 

He also admits to the amount of NTCs and the Sedins as major obstacles ... and that he, himself, was not willing break those contracts. 

 

“It was a tough spot because there was a lot of players on contracts that were difficult, that weren’t really moveable. There was a lot of [players with no-trade clauses]. There was a lot of difficulty there. Obviously, you’ve got two iconic players, Hall of Fame players, that I wasn’t prepared to ask them to move.”

 

So, it's fine for Linden to say he was the one to have a longer vision and come off looking like the good rebuild guy ... BUT ... In his own words ... he was also the guy who wasn't prepared to break the immoveable contracts.

 

So in many ways he was also preventing that longer vision from actually happening by making the decision to honor the Sedins contracts and the upwards of 10 immovable contracts at the time.

 

In hindsight ... the full tear down should have happened after the Torts season, when your experienced Stanley Cup winning coach says the core is stale. And it's sad now because Torts was right in so many ways ... even the focus on blocking shots. 

 

I love Linden and he really was caught between a rock and a hard place, a really messy situation. I don't fault him for honoring those contracts ... it's the professional and honorable thing to do. And it would have been excruciating to watch the Sedins hoist the Cup with another team. More salt in the wound. So, what do you do. I didn't envy the guy.

 

But looking back, it is clear that a different and perhaps more painful decision should have been made instead of trying to have things both ways, playing both sides. That old saying is around for a reason.

 

 

 

 

Even if the Sedins didn't want to move on they could have rebuilt and told them if you don't wanna go that is fine but the team is rebuilding regardless. Leave the ball in their court if they want to stay for that. Which is the direction that should have happened. The one foot in one foot out rebuild on the fly had to go perfect with way too many things that could go sideways that inevitably did. 

[Honky Cat]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:02 PM, rekker said:

Linden leaving was a crossroads that failed. 

No it wasnt.

 

He was responsible for leading the team down the wrong garden path 2014-17. He then had the audacity to ask for a longer term rebuild.

 

I can see why he was fired.

[Dr. Crossbar]

29 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Even if the Sedins didn't want to move on they could have rebuilt and told them if you don't wanna go that is fine but the team is rebuilding regardless. Leave the ball in their court if they want to stay for that. Which is the direction that should have happened. The one foot in one foot out rebuild on the fly had to go perfect with way too many things that could go sideways that inevitably did. 

Good perspective. For me it all comes down to the uncomfortable.

 

They didn't do the uncomfortable thing. I understand why but there's a lesson to be learned.

 

Our inability to handle the uncomfortable actually started a year earlier. It was pathetic really. 

 

And the organization was pretty spineless. At the first sign of "uncomfortable" during the Torts season, people lost their minds, no one could handle it - organization and fans. 

 

You have to embrace the uncomfortable to win ... you have to do uncomfortable things ... make uncomfortable decisions ... it's part of winning.

 

Just look at Tocchet's approach and message ... no one can be comfortable ... It's about being uncomfortable. 

 

That's one full decade later.

 

So, in hindsight, when Linden took over, they simply didn't do the uncomfortable thing, even if that was telling the Sedins they were rebuilding and giving them the option ... it was too uncomfortable of a thing to do. 

 

 

[Timråfan]

3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Comprehension is an issue still I see. 

Understanding

[rekker]

4 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

No it wasnt.

 

He was responsible for leading the team down the wrong garden path 2014-17. He then had the audacity to ask for a longer term rebuild.

 

I can see why he was fired.

As long as the twins were here, that made sense. Then around the time of the twins careers coming to an end Linden was wanting the proper rebuild which makes sense.

[combover]

To bad they didn’t fire jim “hindsight” Benning and keep linden we’d be far better right now but then Again it would be hard to be any worse. 

Francesco is equally to blame for the level of stupid and incompetence Dim displayed.

All you can do these days is laugh at this franchise 

 

[iceman64]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:25 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Translation:  Linden was the one that brought Benning is so he is partially culpable in his own demise.  

 

Amazing there are still Benning nut huggers.  An average player that was a journeyman type of career as a Canuck that stuck a shiv in Linden's back while having an average at best performance as the GM of the Canucks after 7 years.  I rank that up there with how Keenan treated Linden.

That's because a lot of us know it wasn't all JB's fault but keep listening to the media, they know everything right?  Now you do...  JB was probably one of the few people who would have actually came to Vancouver to take over the 2012 shi_ show

I wouldn't have, too many stupid fans who still listen and believe the useless bush league media, that's nothing new though...

[Toews]

9 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

That's because a lot of us know it wasn't all JB's fault but keep listening to the media, they know everything right?  Now you do...  JB was probably one of the few people who would have actually came to Vancouver to take over the 2012 shi_ show

I wouldn't have, too many stupid fans who still listen and believe the useless bush league media, that's nothing new though...

Except the poster you quoted didn't say it was "all JB's fault". And anyone with a functioning brain is capable of coming to their own conclusions and doesn't need the media to formulate their own thoughts. Stop pretending like you are some sort of genius or higher authority just because you have a different opinion. I could easily follow your example and call you a "stupid fan" for not sharing my subjective opinion that Benning was an awful GM and his actions have screwed us for years to come. Thankfully though I am not arrogant or narcissistic enough to believe such nonsense. 

[iceman64]

11 minutes ago, Toews said:

Except the poster you quoted didn't say it was "all JB's fault". And anyone with a functioning brain is capable of coming to their own conclusions and doesn't need the media to formulate their own thoughts. Stop pretending like you are some sort of genius or higher authority just because you have a different opinion. I could easily follow your example and call you a "stupid fan" for not sharing my subjective opinion that Benning was an awful GM and his actions have screwed us for years to come. Thankfully though I am not arrogant or narcissistic enough to believe such nonsense. 

Are you for real? So you have any idea how many people come on here regurgitating the media b.s. on here and swear up and down that's the way to go, as in whatever they happen to be saying at the time and sorry, I played hockey and watched this franchise since 1974 so yeah I do know what I'm talking about like it or not.. 

Let me guess, your in the one and done crowd who thinks we can buy a Stanley cup without depth? Probably, that's most of the fan base and that's been going on since day one.. has it ever worked? Lmao! 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by iceman64

[NewbieCanuckFan]

17 hours ago, combover said:

To bad they didn’t fire jim “hindsight” Benning and keep linden we’d be far better right now but then Again it would be hard to be any worse. 

Francesco is equally to blame for the level of stupid and incompetence Dim displayed.

All you can do these days is laugh at this franchise 

 

Well I'm not sure Linden is a 'modern day Prometheus' (apologies to Mary Shelley ) but it sure seems like Benning is a modern day Epimetheus (Prometheus' dim-witted brother).

[ktcy2]

The concept of rebuilding is only necessary because of star player signings. Otherwise, without those crazy OEL style contracts this concept is not necessary because you can always get free agencies to fill your needs. Maybe stop signing every young potential player to 6x6 contracts then we don’t have to talk about rebuild all the damn time. 
 

Our problems are the boesers, garlands, Myers, OELs, Erikson. Ironoic isn’t it when at some point these players were considered like franchise saviors and they are now our direct immediate problems. 

[Toews]

10 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Are you for real? So you have any idea how many people come on here regurgitating the media b.s. on here and swear up and down that's the way to go, as in whatever they happen to be saying at the time and sorry, I played hockey and watched this franchise since 1974 so yeah I do know what I'm talking about like it or not.. 

So you believe only your subjective opinion is correct and everyone is stupid or "regurgitating the media b.s."? If so, that's a stunning level of delusion and arrogance. 

10 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Let me guess, your in the one and done crowd who thinks we can buy a Stanley cup without depth? Probably, that's most of the fan base and that's been going on since day one.. has it ever worked? Lmao! 

I am not the one that has been defending Benning on this forum for years despite his stupid, short-sighted moves. I remember you insulting everyone who even mildly criticized Benning. Where's Benning now? How many jobs has interviewed for since he was let go? 

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, Toews said:

So you believe only your subjective opinion is correct and everyone is stupid or "regurgitating the media b.s."? If so, that's a stunning level of delusion and arrogance. 

I am not the one that has been defending Benning on this forum for years despite his stupid, short-sighted moves. I remember you insulting everyone who even mildly criticized Benning. Where's Benning now? How many jobs has interviewed for since he was let go? 

Your such a twit, never did I say I was agreeable with everything JB did, however he did some good things too but hey genius, for your info, look how many people here and on other social platforms said we got fleeced by signing a 3rd line center, and one of the few of the media who got it right was Bob McKenzie, he knew JT played on Stamko's line and looked great doing it and noted Vancouver did great and he was no 3rd line center on any other team that didn't have the depth that Tampa had at the time but hey why would you believe that? 

Oh wait, his first season he was toe to toe with OV in scoring and then proceeded to put up 100 pts.. yeah some overpaid 3rd line center hey? Bet you were one of them who fell for that b.s. that the vast majority of media was spewing out.

 See? Your my prime example.. 

So tell me Mr Genius, your JB when he was hired, what would you have done in his shoes and be specific then tell me the 2 major hurdles he faced immediately that no other GM in the league couldn't have done anything about either...  

 If you can't, pretty sure  that would make YOU the narcissist 

Again, I never said anywhere JB didn't make mistakes as every GM does, but I'm not a idiot to say he didn't do good things too like you...

 

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, Toews said:

So you believe only your subjective opinion is correct and everyone is stupid or "regurgitating the media b.s."? If so, that's a stunning level of delusion and arrogance. 

I am not the one that has been defending Benning on this forum for years despite his stupid, short-sighted moves. I remember you insulting everyone who even mildly criticized Benning. Where's Benning now? How many jobs has interviewed for since he was let go? 

Frankli I never thought JB was the sharpest knife in the draw, plus he had an inferiority complex. This showed up clearly when he started to fire good people who had proved themselves, Gilman and Brackett springs to mind. JB was afarid they would show him up so he selected the basketball guy Wisebrod as his yes man. Sadly this ultimately refects on those that hired the guy in the first place. JB couldn't string a sentnce without puncuating with  "you know" I will say this he seemed like a very nice chap,  I met at a luncheon, very friendly and honest to a "T"

Edited June 17, 2023 by Fred65

[Toews]

9 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Your such a twit, never did I say I was agreeable with everything JB did, however he did some good things too but hey genius, for your info, look how many people here and on other social platforms said we got fleeced by signing a 3rd line center, and one of the few of the media who got it right was Bob McKenzie, he knew JT played on Stamko's line and looked great doing it and noted Vancouver did great and he was no 3rd line center on any other team that didn't have the depth that Tampa had at the time but hey why would you believe that? 

Oh wait, his first season he was toe to toe with OV in scoring and then proceeded to put up 100 pts.. yeah some overpaid 3rd line center hey? Bet you were one of them who fell for that b.s. that the vast majority of media was spewing out.

 See? Your my prime example.. 

So tell me Mr Genius, your JB when he was hired, what would you have done in his shoes and be specific then tell me the 2 major hurdles he faced immediately that no other GM in the league couldn't have done anything about either...  

 If you can't, pretty sure  that would make YOU the narcissist 

Again, I never said anywhere JB didn't make mistakes as every GM does, but I'm not a idiot to say he didn't do good things too like you...

 

If you are as old as you claim to be, at least figure out the difference between "your" and "you're", if you are going to go around referring to people as "twit", "stupid" or "idiot". But that's not really surprising, in my experience the people who are most prone to insult other's intelligence are often projecting their own inadequacies. Also I never did say that every one of Benning's moves was bad, I just stated my opinion that Benning was an awful GM, whose stupid, shortsighted moves have handcuffed this franchise long after he was fired. A good example is the recent OEL buyout which will be on the books for the next 8 years.

 

Also I stated something that was true, you were a Jim Benning fanboy who ran around insulting anyone who criticized those moves. If you were not "agreeable with everything JB did" then please post evidence of all the times you criticized his moves. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Toews

[Spoosh]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:07 PM, Odd. said:

Ownership isn’t the one making trades. Benning goes to the owner about a trade, all he has to do is sell it to Aquaman and it’s a done deal.

 

FA has blame for sure. But us being where we are today is mostly Benning. That OEL trade set us back 6 years that’s what I’m referring to. 
 

There is absolutely no way we can afford to re sign Petey, Hronek, our RFA’s, while also signing players to key roster spots, while OEL is taking is up 7.2M. OEL needs to be bought out next year if we have any chance at salvaging our core’s future.

In the real world, owners are owners, they aquire proper people to run the company. In this case Linden or Benning is brought in to run the company. They don’t need to sell a trade idea to the owner, they are in charge of making the right call and get paid to do that. A CEO, President, GM etc does not run to the owner with this stuff. An OEL buyout might be something they might discuss, but in general the owner just wants his money or money and success in this case. If he didn’t trust his GM or President, he’d do the job himself.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Spoosh
Typo

[EP Phone Home]

You guys are crazy! There is absolutely no proof at all that ownership meddles and dictates the direction/plan of the team. I wish there were pictures around that are worth a thousand words that can back these horrible claims…

 

 

“Every step you take, I’ll be watching you”

Edited June 20, 2023 by EP Phone Home

[dougieL]

On 6/15/2023 at 5:50 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Imagine if we had started a rebuild once Trevor was in. In 2014-2015 we were still decent, around the top of the division, the Sedins were just under a PPG. The next season was the big drop off, down to 2nd last in the division, and the year after that, dead last. That was the year Bo lead us in scoring with 52 points and the Sedins were finally done. We should have started a full-blown rebuild in 2015 to be honest.

 

Eriksson was the worst move we could have made back then, made absolutely no sense. We did sell a lot of our good players to be fair but really could have sold a lot more. There were a lot of odd moves (like for guys like Vanek, Vbrata etc.) to try and keep us relevant but we really should have just been selling everyone. We could have traded the Sedins but I respect keeping them and letting them retire, but everyone not named Sedin or a former 1st round pick should have been sold for picks or prospects. Instead we had a lot of journeymen on the team in a weird, desperate attempt to stay relevant but we were still at the bottom of the division. A perfect time for a solid healthy tank and we didn't even really do well at that.

Linden's "longer term" view started only after the Sedins retired. Funny how Linden failed to mention that.