The Benefit Of Qualifying Raymond

[thad]

He needs to play the puck when he gets it. If the last 20 times he tried to weave and hang on to the puck he coughed it up, why not try passing it before you start another odd man rush the other way..

I'm not denying his defensive abilities but he's really been a line killer lately. No matter where we put him he brings down the line IMO.

[sharnhayre]

I would consider packaging Raymond + pick at the draft to either move up in the draft or to get someone that will drive harder to the net. His speed is great, but what else has he done besides skating fast? I know hes back from a serious injury and we should cut him some slack, but he has not lived up to the salary he is being paid.

[diesel_3]

The frustration far outweighs the excitement.

I just have a feeling his is going to be a part of a package in the off season.

[GradinToSmyl]

He will be qualified for sure, without a doubt.

[Bodee]

Look I admire your support for Mayray. But I think you are equally blind as any so called hater who points out all the faults in your inability to recognize them:

The fact that his speed ends at the wall at the hash marks and that he never carries the puck to the net is pretty much the definition of a top six winger who is intimidated. Call it intimidated or fear, either descriptive works. This perimeter style at is a direct result of fearing the consequences of driving to the net and risking the result of a dman coming across the slot to stop you.

Yes he has heart, he made it to the NHL and had returned from injury but with all due respect his heart ends at the top of the circles.

Asking whether or not "any of us could say that" is just irrelevant. We are not getting payed 2.5 to play in the NHL.

You are right about his puck handling. It is skillful, however his ability to receive passes at speed, in close quarters under pressure - one timers or rebounds etc is very average.

The bottom line is he isn't top six on the Canucks and he is a non physical bottom six player.

[Losing With Pride]

Raymond is shrouded in myth and lies on here, of that there is no doubt.

For a start many on here, who do not see his defensive qualities, make me think they either don't understand the game or their bias has eaten away so much of their judgement that they are incapable of fair assessment.

Others say he doesn't have a role and he doesn't fit. Well if that is the case then AV is not the coach we think he is because he firstly, couldn't wait to rush him back into the team (despite other possibilities ) and secondly, he full fills the role, regularly, of quick outlet and passer far better than say, Booth for example who may I remind you is getting nearly twice as much and while not having the excuse of a broken vertebrae and lack of pre season has posted figures not much better than Raymond. We should also remember Booths inclination to ALWAYS go for the shot when comparing these stats.

For the poster above who does not think he is exciting, I must be hearing things when I note the buzz of expectation from the crowd when he breaks with the puck.

I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm not saying he couldn't be more physical or that another 10lbs of muscle wouldn't do him some good. What I am saying is he brings a lot of qualities to the Canucks which seem to be either not understood by many on here or just don't interest those who are only enamoured with rushes to the net that 95 times out of 100 lead to giving the puck away.

The players I have named above, CDC would no doubt wet their pants if it was announced were coming here. Sturm comes to mind. And yet their salaries combined to performance make them miserable compared to Raymond.

This confirms what I have always suspected and that is that half of CDC have the attention span of a gnat, haven't the patience to analyse or understand the game and are absolutely clueless when it comes to judging a hockey player.

Lastly, I have no axe to grind with Booth. In fact I feel he will be the next victim on here (and I will defend him too) because if he doesn't keep feeding of the mob he will be another Raymond, seen as diminishing these peoples self esteem and bragging rights.

[CanucksExpress2]

The Canucks know the value of standing behind a player like Raymond who broke his back "for the club" and what it does to the locker room. He brings speed which backs off the other team. Canucks know this year was a bit of a write-off for Raymond, just like it has been for Kesler and Maholtra. Be very interesting to watch those 3 next season.

@Bodee I agree about Booth, although I think he has had trouble adjusting to Vancouver's spotlight and the Canuck's system. Expect him to be much better next year,

[jimsandlak83]

Depends on how much he can get qualified for. At 1.2 he would be a decent asset to have in the pressbox who can fill a top 6 role when there is an injury. However, I don't know if that's even possible to take that much of a paycut

[Edlerberry]

Finally, a rational appraoch instead of people just repeating other people's BS. "If you can keep your head about you when all around you others are losing their's and blaming it on you..."

[elvis15]

With Raymond; Gillis will allow him to sit most of the summer and see if anyone offersheets him. If they do at $1,567,044 to $3,134,088 Gillis wil probably take the second rounder. I don't see anyone going over the higher part of this but if they did it would give us a first and a third which would be sick for Raymond.

[Vancanwincup]

The Canucks will give Raymond one more year to see if he can reach his career high again, after coming off what could have been a career ending injury they are not going to give him only one year to reach form. The message sent to other players if they decide to give up on him after one year short of a serious injury does not hold well. It unfair to Raymond and his teammates that are rooting for him to gain form.

After or during next year is when Raymond fate will be held, unless the canucks are offered something they cann't turn down in return for him they are going to give him time. Yes Raymond is falling alot on the ice, but this is easly explained by the fact of his spinal injury which effects core strength which has an impact on balance. All can be improved in the off season.

The biggest plus is Raymonds speed is still there and he has proven he can score 25 goals. He still young at 26 and yet to hit his prime. The speed he has is too dangerous to give up on. Another plus is his work ethic to come back from that injury only proves he will do what it take get the job done.

Giving Raymond one more year is not going the hurt the Canucks, he is still producing some offense and is an effective back checker. If he is struggling offensively at the beginning of next year than put him on the trade block and give one of the prospects a chance at his spot.

All I know is he is on the Canucks now going into the playoffs and anything can happen, maybe he picks his game up offensively or is one of the best defencive players in the playoffs. If he struggles than maybe Jordan Schroeder gets his chance or the vet Steve Reinprecht.

The bottom line is the Canucks have been patient with Raymond, why would they change that patience after he has come off of a spinal injury, it would all have been a waste of time to give up on him now.

[Toni Zamboni]

if raymond can play all the time, like he did the first 2 games back from being benched, we would want him in our lineup.

i think he will turn it on for the playoffs, otherwise we have ebbett, bitz, reinprecht all chomping at the bit.

[Canucks_Wrister73]

Canuck fans have been hyper critical of Mason Raymond for years now. This isn't a new thing. Three years ago he had a terrific season and looked like he was really going to bloom into a dominant top 6 scoring threat. Raymond has been given more opportunity than any of the other young guys that played on out team back when he first became a Canuck. Hansen who has speed that rivals Raymond's and a willingness to play hard all the time used to get sent down to the minors three years every time he scored a goal in a Canuck's uni with the big club.

Raymond has always been fast, always been inconsistent and streaky. He's always been a puck hog, and has always been the cause of many, many turn overs in the offensive end.

He will win you a few games with his goal scoring, and he will win you a few games because of his shoot out abilities. But he isn't going to change, or develop in any signifigant way from what we've already seen. I'd let him go and give another young forward a chance at the big club next year.

[dorrcoq]

For the poster above who does not think he is exciting, I must be hearing things when I note the buzz of expectation from the crowd when he breaks with the puck.

[Bodee]

if raymond can play all the time, like he did the first 2 games back from being benched, we would want him in our lineup.

i think he will turn it on for the playoffs, otherwise we have ebbett, bitz, reinprecht all chomping at the bit.

[dorrcoq]

I've said this before...if you're so enamored with Ramyond's speed, then sign Apolo Ohno. He can't player either, but damn, he's fast.

[riffraff]

I guess Daniel and a few others I could name are not top 6 wingers then.

As for passes taken at speed, I challenge you to go back and look at many of them. They are poor and don't allow for his speed. If you have a player fast and quick off his mark you have to allow for that in the pass. I'm sick of seeing him have to stretch BACK for passes that should be 4 feet further forward.

I disagree that money makes any difference to ability to risk injury in sport. You could pay someone $2 million to hurtle down to the boards with the memory of a fractured vertebrae in the back of their minds and they might do it once or even twice but not many would do it on a nightly basis. That takes guts and the ability not to be intimidated.

Regarding top 6 or wherever, I have never been concerned where or even if he played, I have only ever defended him against downright lies and biased drivel. It matters not to me if he plays, is traded or benched, I support the guys picked to wear the jerseys. But I will not sit back without contesting some of the character assassination that goes on here. No matter who the player is.

You still haven't answered how a top class coach and the best GM in the league puts up with this "nightmare" of a player, night after night.

[Vansicle]

The problem is you're grasping at straws. * If a player continues year after year to show he will not break into a solid top 6 status, then unfortunately that's the writing on the wall.

I know you want something back for him, but in today's climate we are going to have to take on a similar player, so again we lose out because we are stuck with an unwanted (or inconsistent) player who we likely can't be sent down to the wolves (because a player of Raymond's similar ilk would be sent to the minors and clear waivers prior to a trade if it was at all possible).

Giving Raymond an "extended training camp" is not going to teach us anything we don't already know about him. He is in no man's land. Can't play a bottom 6 role as effectively as anyone we have there, and can't step up his game to fit into a top 6 role either. He is forever in no man's land, and has shown that through his tenure with the Canucks organization.

There is no magic number of games, or an offseason, that will likely show us what we don't already know. We know Raymond. We have a vast collection of video and statistical evidence to prove he is like so many other "perimeter players" before him. He fits the mould specifically when it comes to his ice time, plus minus, and GPG averages. 2) It all screams mediocre.

For a team that needs a top 6 plug, fine. But this is the Canucks we are talking about. Raymond is likely on his way out as soon as the opportunity arises. Trade, or no trade. He is gone and you can quote this and save it until that day comes.

[Kack Zassian]

You would figure this thread presents a pretty good middle ground between people who want Raymond gone regardless, and people who want to retain him.

Even if Raymond goes pointless in 15 games to start next season, and the team ends up trading/waiving him it has little to no impact on if this team wins or loses.

However, if Raymond puts up 8 points in 15 games, he will show he is producing at a top 6 rate. Couple that with his defensive abilities, and you have a player on a cheap contract producing at a very reasonable rate.

The pros of retaining Raymond outweigh the cons regardless of how you look at it.

[-AJ-]

The thing is no matter what he will always be a perimeter player

He will always try hitting the boards instead of the guy

He will always go out-wide and take a pointless wrist shot

He will always be a pansy

to be successful you've either got to have skill - which helps you with assists and goals aka hank

or you've got to go to the net hard which he doesn't have either.

all he's got is speed - i hope for his sake one day we play a bunch of beer leaguers and he looks fantastic

but it just won't happen

I'm tired of being disappointed - He will always be that guy that skates to the boards and falls down

my opinion anyways.