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[Proposal] Stockpiling Draft Picks


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#31 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:31 AM

The concept is fine, the type of players are not. Philly did a quickie rebuild like this, and it's kept them competitive so that they don't have a closing window on winning a cup. I'd like to see the Canucks do the same. I'm not sold on trading Hansen as well.
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#32 RonMexico

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:56 AM

We dont need picks atm. Our window is closing.

JG


Wake up. This is the exact reason the OP suggests a scenario as such. The window on this group is closing. Would you rather lose very little from the current group and gain some better prospects who in 3 years should be ready to fill the gaps? Or would you just do nothing so that in 3 years there is very little to fill in those gaps and the team has go into full rebuild and stink up the joint while doing it. Fairly easy choice to me.
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#33 mpt

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:57 AM

Why would we want to stock pile draft picks when we are terrible at drafting?

MG always states that we have an unique way of drafting. It honestly just seems like we pick the slider every year.

Edited by mpt, 23 August 2012 - 10:00 AM.

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#34 thad

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:20 AM

im not going to bash you like the others but i too think its a bad idea. The main reasons being.. Getting rid of hansen is a bad idea as he is not replacable. to get a guy like him signed to a contract like that you have to draft and develop them yourself. he brings it every single shift and is the exact type of player you want on your 3rd line going into the playoffs. saying kassian just takes over is wrong because he is still too young and prone to mistakes. getting a guy like hansen in fa your looking at sean bergenheim money. weve got hansen signed at fair value and that is hard to do these days and opens up cap space for depth.

other thing is you have just improved toronto big time so i dont see them seeding that low. hansen is going to give their penalty killing a huge boost and ballard is going to improve their defense. we also swap centre prospects and we dont know wich one will be better yet. so basically we gamble this years playoffs by giving up 2 good roster players that will improve toronto and hope they do really bad for a slim chance at a top 10 pick

same thing goes with the florida deal. theyre not giving up major roster pieces so luongo is going to get them to the playoffs for sure. they just had their first taste of the playoffs and theyre hungry for more. also any one of those kids can break out at anytime so this is a team that can only go up. theres no way we get a top 10 pick there. youd be looking at ellerby and a mid to late pick. i dont see that as fair value. we also give up raymond for nothing, he alone is worth a pick that we can stockpile.

i agree we should try and get a few picks this year but were not getting top 10s. i would try and get a first back in the lu deal for sure but also a guy that can help us win now. we have the team that can do it but if u take out hansen ballard and raymond our chances go way down.
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#35 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:24 AM

I think MG said he wanted to get young, faster, and BIGGER!!!. Under 6ft is not bigger.

Just for fun...

Luongo + Raymond to FLA for...

Matthais: 24yr 6'4" 220lbs C - should do well as our 3rd line centre.
Howden: 20yr 6'2" 182lbs LW/C - prospect top 6 potential
Petrovic: 20yr 6'4" 193lbs D - prospect physical defender


Ballard to PHI for...

Noebels: 20yr 6'3" 200lbs LW - prospect top 6 potential
Lauridsen: 23yr 6'6" 220lbs D - prospect shutdown defender


AND if Edler is asking for crazy money....
Edler to WSH for...

Forsberg: 18yr 6'2" 181lbs LW/RW - prospect top 6 potential
Wilson: 18yr 6'4" 203lbs RW - prospect top 6 potential power forward


It's been a long summer...meh...
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#36 gizmo2337

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:59 AM

I like the idea of shaking up our prospect pool. We have some pieces to pull it off, and lets be honest that we will have to give something up to get picks.
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#37 shawn antoski

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:52 PM

Why do people not like this idea? You're only looking at the bad of it but not the good. The good part is that we have a very poor prospect pool. With these trades, we gain 5 top-talent prospects and would bolster our prospect pool greatly.


:picard: wtf
right now the canucks are stanley cup favorites
and now you want them to be calder cup favorites

you are whats wrong with cdc

Edited by shawn antoski, 23 August 2012 - 12:53 PM.

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#38 Pears

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:10 PM

:picard: wtf
right now the canucks are stanley cup favorites
and now you want them to be calder cup favorites

you are whats wrong with cdc

Sorry but I'd like to stay competitive in the future and not end up like Calgary.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#39 shawn antoski

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:15 PM

Sorry but I'd like to stay competitive in the future and not end up like Calgary.


oh so u want to end up like edmonton, they got so many draft picks ,,, hahahahahaah

you know nothing about hockey stop posting so much spend more time reading instead of typing
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#40 Pears

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:25 PM

oh so u want to end up like edmonton, they got so many draft picks ,,, hahahahahaah

you know nothing about hockey stop posting so much spend more time reading instead of typing

:picard: You have no idea what you're talking about do you? Kassian, Jensen, Tanev, Schroeder, Connauton and Rodin are our only good prospects. That's it. With the additions of Clobourne, Drouin, Dunclair, Subban and Ellerby, we gain 5 top-talent prospects while only giving up one of our own prospects (Schroeder) along with Luongo, Hansen, Ballard and Raymond. So it looks like you don't know anything about hockey.

But if you want to have a dim future and be bottom dwellers for another 6 years like 10 years ago be my guest.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#41 Zoolander

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:29 PM

:picard: wtf
right now the canucks are stanley cup favorites
and now you want them to be calder cup favorites

you are whats wrong with cdc


Were actually not Stanley Cup favourites...they're are atleast 3 maybe 5 teams that could outplay us in a 7 game series. These trades take away almost nothing from our team while giving us some talented young prospects, just like Philly has.

So Sir,
I think it's you that doesn't know anything about hockey because Edmonton will be whooping our grandpa arses in about 3 years if we don't do anything to change that.
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#42 shawn antoski

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:34 PM

:picard: You have no idea what you're talking about do you? Kassian, Jensen, Tanev, Schroeder, Connauton and Rodin are our only good prospects. That's it. With the additions of Clobourne, Drouin, Dunclair, Subban and Ellerby, we gain 5 top-talent prospects while only giving up one of our own prospects (Schroeder) along with Luongo, Hansen, Ballard and Raymond. So it looks like you don't know anything about hockey.

But if you want to have a dim future and be bottom dwellers for another 6 years like 10 years ago be my guest.


u were 2 years old 10 years ago what do you know

fool such a fool ..... 10 years ago was an awesome time to be a canucks fan we were the most exciting team in the nhl
ever herd of the westcoast express. youngin



The West Coast Express was an ice hockey line that played for the National Hockey League's (NHL) Vancouver Canucks from 2002–2004. Named after Vancouver's commuter rail service, the line consisted of Markus Naslund at left wing, Brendan Morrison at centre, and Todd Bertuzzi playing right wing. The West Coast Express was a high scoring line that was considered to be one of the best lines in hockey during its tenure.
Each player was acquired by the Canucks though various trades. Once each member arrived in Vancouver it took two years before the line played together regularly. Once they did, they helped to set a Canucks franchise record for points in 2002–03 season (later surpassed), a season in which the West Coast Express accounted for 45% of the team's goal production. All three players recorded their most individually recognized and best statistical seasons while playing on the line. Despite regular season success, the Canucks were never able to advance past the second round of the playoffs during the West Coast Express years
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#43 Matt Beattie

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:41 PM

maybe mg should hand his gm spot over to u cuz obviously you seem to know a lot about hockey xDDD
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#44 Zoolander

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:45 PM

The West Coast Express was an ice hockey line that played for the National Hockey League's (NHL) Vancouver Canucks from 2002–2004. Named after Vancouver's commuter rail service, the line consisted of Markus Naslund at left wing, Brendan Morrison at centre, and Todd Bertuzzi playing right wing. The West Coast Express was a high scoring line that was considered to be one of the best lines in hockey during its tenure.
Each player was acquired by the Canucks though various trades. Once each member arrived in Vancouver it took two years before the line played together regularly. Once they did, they helped to set a Canucks franchise record for points in 2002–03 season (later surpassed), a season in which the West Coast Express accounted for 45% of the team's goal production. All three players recorded their most individually recognized and best statistical seasons while playing on the line. Despite regular season success, the Canucks were never able to advance past the second round of the playoffs during the West Coast Express years


Glad to see you know how to use Copy and Paste..
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#45 Pears

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:46 PM

u were 2 years old 10 years ago what do you know

fool such a fool ..... 10 years ago was an awesome time to be a canucks fan we were the most exciting team in the nhl
ever herd of the westcoast express. youngin

Sorry to break it to you bud but I'm 16. You're the one that's acting like the 12 year old here. And don't give me a history lesson on the WCE I know plenty about it.

I hate getting into pissing fights like these so I'm just gonna stop wasting my time with you.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#46 shawn antoski

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:46 PM

Were actually not Stanley Cup favourites...they're are atleast 3 maybe 5 teams that could outplay us in a 7 game series. These trades take away almost nothing from our team while giving us some talented young prospects, just like Philly has.

So Sir,
I think it's you that doesn't know anything about hockey because Edmonton will be whooping our grandpa arses in about 3 years if we don't do anything to change that.


not stanley cup favorites :picard: you are whats wrong with CDC. open your eyes canucks are the best team in the west and the oilers are the worst


listen kid I live in edmonton and vancouver for the last 18 years. no one stays in edmonton long term everyone moves. oiler fans are well aware of this, gretzky messier anderson coffey arnott guerin weight ..... and much more never stayed in edmonton or came back... no one does ask prongers wife..
I dont care if Hall just resigned... big deal.... heatley got traded nash just did and so will lu ... long term contracts dont mean shhhhhh

the oilers will always suck . why do you think they ave hemsky and horcoff such stupid contracts... to make em stay and play where no one else in the nhl wants too.

hahahahaah just like philly...... u are a fool . philly used to be a stanley cup favorite then they traded carter and richards for some youth....... Carter and Richards win the stanley cup.... philly fans cry

so u want to trade Hansen and Luongo for a bunch of kids who have never played in the nhl hahahahahahaah.... you do realize that only 10% of players drafted actually have an NHL career
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#47 shawn antoski

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:51 PM

maybe mg should hand his gm spot over to u cuz obviously you seem to know a lot about hockey xDDD


nah i dont know alotta about hockey
but I do know about oilers, canucks, and flames hockey. i live in all three cities and have always been a hardcore canucks fan . I spent the last 18 years defending the canucks against a bunch of flamers and deadmontonians... I've herd it all....

there favorite line to say now in days is .... "what kind of fans run a goalie like luongo out of town"
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#48 Zoolander

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:58 PM

not stanley cup favorites :picard: you are whats wrong with CDC. open your eyes canucks are the best team in the west and the oilers are the worst


listen kid I live in edmonton and vancouver for the last 18 years. no one stays in edmonton long term everyone moves. oiler fans are well aware of this, gretzky messier anderson coffey arnott guerin weight ..... and much more never stayed in edmonton or came back... no one does ask prongers wife..
I dont care if Hall just resigned... big deal.... heatley got traded nash just did and so will lu ... long term contracts dont mean shhhhhh

the oilers will always suck . why do you think they ave hemsky and horcoff such stupid contracts... to make em stay and play where no one else in the nhl wants too.

hahahahaah just like philly...... u are a fool . philly used to be a stanley cup favorite then they traded carter and richards for some youth....... Carter and Richards win the stanley cup.... philly fans cry

so u want to trade Hansen and Luongo for a bunch of kids who have never played in the nhl hahahahahahaah.... you do realize that only 10% of players drafted actually have an NHL career


When did this conversation turn into where players want to play. The Oilers have enough skill and are getting their main pieces under contract to be competiive for years to come. The Canucks have hardly any young talents, let alone talents that are NHL ready...we need to get younger...and that's FACT.
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#49 shawn antoski

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:18 PM

When did this conversation turn into where players want to play. The Oilers have enough skill and are getting their main pieces under contract to be competiive for years to come. The Canucks have hardly any young talents, let alone talents that are NHL ready...we need to get younger...and that's FACT.


oilers suck they will not be able to compete... they have no goalie or Dmen and nothing on the farm
hall is still a kid .... look at him he cant even play 82 games, hes getting beat up and abused playing a mans game, how long will he last.... oilers have never heard of developing a player until they mature

you are right we do need to get younger ... but not just for the sake of it... you have no idea whyat Luongo's real value is ... fans like you make it seem like hes worth draft picks but in reality hes worth a top 3 forward

Edited by shawn antoski, 23 August 2012 - 02:21 PM.

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#50 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:46 PM

I think Florida jumps on this trade; giving up only Ellerby (does he rate as a blue chipper?) and none of their premium prospects. Why we do it is the question?

Teams like Philly sold Forsburg for two good young players and a pick. It gothem started. Then took two good young players and a pick for Carter, two very good young players for Richards and a pick. New York gave up two good young players and a pick for Nash. Each had a different calibre based on how good was the star leaving. But even if Lou is not worth that much we need at least one seriously good prospect and an Ellerby or Mathias... The prospect is a more known entity (Bjugstad) and will arrive several years sooner. Leverage is all that is holding back the trade, because Gillis does not have it, and he is waiting till he does.

Conversely, why does Toronto want Ballard? Liles and Gardiner do what he would... And that said, why do they give up one of their premium prospects for someone with a lot less star power than Lou, and no better contract???

I believe the value on both is off a bit.


You guys are missing the bigger picture

We don't give up any major pieces besides Lu and Hansen. Lu is replaced by Schneider and Hansen is replaced by Kassian on the 3rd line. We also have Volpatti and Pinnizotto working their way up the depth chart so we don't really lose anything. Ballard can be replaced as well by K-Conn or a cheap veteran defenceman that is still on the market like Foster or Colaiacovo.

Bottom line is we hardly lose any ground, making a run for the cup while at the same time improving our future exponentially. Colbourne and Ellerby are both likely to make the NHL this year as it is

So please, reconsider this proposal and think about the future and keeping up with the Oilers and Avalanche rather than becoming the Flames of the division. We would still be the most competitive team in the divison anyways because we will not have lost a top 6 forward, any top 4 D-Men and our goalie is set to take the league by storm.


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#51 Watermelons

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:16 PM

If we did have the 7th overall, 10th overall and 25th overall, I would probably try to package the 7th and a second rounder for the 1st overall to get Nathan Mackinnon or Seth Jones....

And I thought we were trying to get bigger?? (Although I know Mackinnon isn't very big, he is projected to be the next Crosby - hopefully without the concussions)
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#52 Gollumpus

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:42 PM

In No Way, Is This a Rebuild, It Is Simply Preparing For The Future, While Staying Competitive

Now,What do you guys think about stockpilling draft picks for this year and opening up roster spots.
Now I don't know where the team's we trade with will finish but here is a rough idea of what we could do.

To FLA-Luongo,Raymond
To VAN-Ellerby,1st rd pick 2013 (10th OVR)

To TOR-Ballard,Hansen,Schroeder
To VAN-Colbourne,1st rd pick (7th OVR)

We then draft 25th after making a couragous run with our rookie goalie (Schneider)

We draft:

7th) Anthony Duclair, F, Quebec: Left Wing, 5'11, 180lbs, Shoots Right
63 GP 31G 35A 66P

10th) Jordan Subban, D, Belleville: Defence, 5'9, 170lbs, Shoots Right
53 GP 5G 15A 20P

25th) Johnathon Drouin, F, Halifax: Centre, 5'11, 180lbs, Shoots Left
33GP 7G 22A 29P
PLAYOFFS: 17GP 9G 17A 26P

Essentially: We trade
Luongo,Hansen,Raymond,Ballard, and Schroeder
and pick up
Duclair,Subban,Drouin,Colbourne and Ellerby


Please let me know what you guys think, and if the value is fair. Colboune could always be taken away or switched for another prospect, but I really think this could spark a new dynasty for the Canucks. One to follow under Kesler,Edler,Hamhuis and Bieksa's leadership once the twins are gone.



There is "some" merit in the idea of trading some of the less valuable assets for prospects (who could play now) and for picks.

I believe the Canucks don't get enough back from the Luongo deal (sorry, does "10th ovr" mean 10th overall? If so, how do you know the Panthers will finish that low, especially with Luongo in the net?), Ellerby is a decent prospect, he's just not enough.

The Canucks also would likely not get Toronto's 1st (and once again, how do you know they'll finish 7th?). I do like Colbourne. Perhaps Colbourne and a roster player would be the trade as Burke also has a salary cap to keep an eye on.

I was going to say that I would hope the Canucks would do better in the playoffs, but since you're trading Hansen (and not replacing him), and not really improving the team by much (if at all) then getting the 25th overall might indeed be the case. You're trading a lot of experience and replacing it with some size and potential, but likely not enough.

As others have pointed out, while the guys you have selected may be talented and have a lot of potential, they are *small*. Isn't there anyone out there who is over 6' and 200 lbs? If the Canucks were able to pick up the 7th and 10th overall picks I would hope they'd get a forward with some size to go with his scoring ability and a d-man with mobility and size, and some offensive ability as well would be a nice after-thought.

regards,
G.
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#53 kanucks1

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:47 PM

oh so u want to end up like edmonton, they got so many draft picks ,,, hahahahahaah

you know nothing about hockey stop posting so much spend more time reading instead of typing

oilers suck they will not be able to compete... they have no goalie or Dmen and nothing on the farm
hall is still a kid .... look at him he cant even play 82 games, hes getting beat up and abused playing a mans game, how long will he last.... oilers have never heard of developing a player until they mature

you are right we do need to get younger ... but not just for the sake of it... you have no idea whyat Luongo's real value is ... fans like you make it seem like hes worth draft picks but in reality hes worth a top 3 forward



Finally someone who knows what their talking about! You don't have to trade our starrs for some rookies. We want to win now! GEt that in your heads. I'd rather give up future to win the cup once... Then you can start trading for prospects! We've waited over 40 years to win a cup and guys just want to stay competitve! I want to see the Canucks win the Stanley Cup for once im my Life!!!


Thx
Pcuzz :canucks:
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#54 Schnieds

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:57 PM

Finally someone who knows what their talking about! You don't have to trade our starrs for some rookies. We want to win now! GEt that in your heads. I'd rather give up future to win the cup once... Then you can start trading for prospects! We've waited over 40 years to win a cup and guys just want to stay competitve! I want to see the Canucks win the Stanley Cup for once im my Life!!!


Thx
Pcuzz :canucks:


The guys in this proposal to be traded are hardly considered "stars". Maybe they're stars in Vancouver but no where else. Luongo is gonna get traded anyways so he doesn't count. The only guy I have trouble letting go is Hansen and in no way is he a star in this league. You're making it sound like we're guaranteed a cup if we keep these "stars". And what if we don't? We're gonna be stuck with a bunch of old guys with hardly any prospects in the system. If the proposal is to trade a Edler or Kesler then I agree with you. But he's mostly trading a few plugs plus Hansen to improve our prospect pool.
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#55 Super_Canuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:59 PM

I think anyone here who is critical of adding draft picks for the future is short sighted. If you can add something to our future without subtracting a whole lot from today then why not?! These are the same people who will be crying bloody murder if we suck 5-7 years from now and say how the hell did this happen? Kind of reminds me of people who spend all their money living for today then go broke when they hit mid-life.
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#56 Pears

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:09 AM

I think anyone here who is critical of adding draft picks for the future is short sighted. If you can add something to our future without subtracting a whole lot from today then why not?! These are the same people who will be crying bloody murder if we suck 5-7 years from now and say how the hell did this happen? Kind of reminds me of people who spend all their money living for today then go broke when they hit mid-life.

Finally! The latter part of your posts describes exactly what some people are suggesting and I do not want that to happen.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#57 ButterBean

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:02 AM

This is what our top 5 prospects look like right now

1) Kassian
2) Tanev
3) Jensen
4) Connauton
5) Rodin

This is what our top 10 prospects would look like after the trades

1) Kassian
2) Tanev
3) Jensen
4) Colbourne
5) Ellerby
6) Dunclair
7) Subban
8) Drouin
9) Connauton
10) Rodin

So tell me, which one would you rather have? The one that won't help us stay competitive, or the one that helps us stay competitive for the next 10-15 year?

This is what our top 5 prospects look like right now

1) Kassian
2) Tanev
3) Jensen
4) Connauton
5) Rodin

This is what our top 10 prospects would look like after the trades

1) Kassian
2) Tanev
3) Jensen
4) Colbourne
5) Ellerby
6) Dunclair
7) Subban
8) Drouin
9) Connauton
10) Rodin

So tell me, which one would you rather have? The one that won't help us stay competitive, or the one that helps us stay competitive for the next 10-15 year?

Trading Hansen and Ballard make us worse. Who is Ballard replaced by? Ellerby is an unproven rookie and pairing him with Tanev is just asking for disaster against an experienced playoff team. Hansen may be replacable by Kassian but why not keep both? I'd much rather have at least 1 player who has some impact in bringing us a cup for the next few years. We can still get a good amount of prospects/picks through trading Luongo/Raymond/Prospect but giving away players that help us now not is definitely not the answer. We need maybe 2 picks at max and we'll be fine.

Edited by ButterBean, 24 August 2012 - 01:03 AM.

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#58 shawn antoski

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:34 AM

:sadno: :picard:
Essentially: We trade
Luongo,Hansen,Raymond,Ballard, and Schroeder
and pick up
13TH PICK , 15TH PICK, 30TH PICK,Colbourne and Ellerby :emot-parrot:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / ---------Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) /---------- Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / ---------Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) /----------- Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Dale Weise ($0.615m) /---------- Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) /-------- Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) / -------Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) /-------- Joe Colborne ($1.100m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Steve Pinizzotto ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($3.250m) /------- Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / ----------Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Chris Tanev ($0.900m) / -----------Keaton Ellerby ($0.700m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,510,000; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $11,690,000

THIS TEAM SUCKS YOU JUST TRADED AWAY ALL THE DEPTH......WHAT IF SOMEONES GETS INJURED :frantic:
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