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Is Kassians lack of scoring in the AHL a cause for concern?


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Poll: Is Kassians lack of scoring in the AHL a cause for concern? (109 member(s) have cast votes)

is kassian lack of production concerning you about is development so far?

  1. Yes, he should be dominating down there and he is not (68 votes [62.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.39%

  2. No, he is just off to a rough start and its no cause for concern (41 votes [37.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.61%

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#31 hockeywoot

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

I'm more concerned that our prospect team in the AHL as a whole looks like ass. Kassian is one of honestly very few potential bright spots. Schroeder doesn't look like he's going to pan out into much, Rodin who had potential seems to of fallen off, and really aside from Kassian the only real potential for anything resembling a first line player is Jensen.

Connautan is decent looking, Tanev at times looks good but recently his play has been pretty sketchy. A potential bright spot is Corrado who has been playing stellar and impressed a lot of people, but he's a smaller guy and not many small defensemen have done big things in the big leagues.

All in all, you have an aging top line in the Sedin twins, and you have no valid replacement. You have your second line C who is also aging, but more importantly, becoming very much injury prone and riddled with increasingly constant surgery, and no replacement. Even if we had Hodgson, let's be honest, Hodgson's play when he went almost 18 games without a goal or many points before he was traded and 'wanted out' didn't even scream to be that great of an 'elite' center talent. He'd probably be a 'decent' second line center at best.

We have holes on offense to begin with, and we don't even have anyone to rely on in the future to replace the pieces we do have that will need replacing in the next few years. We honestly have a pretty mediocre defense. I said a couple years ago whenever people started to call our defense 'top 5 in the league' that a bunch of average players does not work out to be a 'good defense'. It's an average defense. As is shown when Salo was out and we looked terrible in the regular season, or when Hamhuis went down are defense all but crumbled against Boston. Our defense is constantly one injury away, even to a depth player, to being considerably poor, and our offense is already streaky and unreliable in the playoffs, without even needing an injury.

Couple this with the fact that we have no bonafide number one D man in the prospect pool, and you're left with a rather disturbing picture. Our big window, has honestly all but passed with the improving of other teams around us. While I wouldn't shy away from saying it probably already passed with our lack of adding a big name forward when we needed one for the last two years, we don't seem to be any likely to get a big name D which would've potentially put us over the top either.

If the twins weren't getting up there in age before, with the addition to the current lockout, that's just one more year tacked on, and an already questionable window is suddenly even more closed.

As much as positive fans will try to hide from it, the future is looking mediocre. All of the bandwagon fans from 2003, and then from the Luongo era, didn't really get to see just what kind of team Vancouver usually was in the past. It was a mediocre one, that usually battled for the 8th playoff spot. We might not quite go back to that, but it's quickly approaching that territory again where we're more average than anything. Our prospect pool is mediocre, our current situation on both offense and defense is mediocre, and there is no real signs of reinforcement coming.

So, am I concerned about Kassian not putting up points? No, I am not concerned about that. He is one of our only real 'good shot' prospects.

Other than him, our only bright spot on the team, which has really been the only bright spot for years now, is our goaltending. Luongo was phenomenal. Schneider has a potentially good future on him, but that's just it. It's potential. No one knows how he's going to handle a full workload just yet, as it will be his first time in the NHL. And considering Luongo's career, and the fact he and Lundqvist have been the two best most consistent goalies in recent history, he's got pretty big shoes to fill. Not only will he have those expectations for the regular season to fill, he's got to do what Luongo had to do, which was to try and hide the shortcoming of the offense and defense of the team before him. Those bandwagon fans won't support him or the team when they start falling back down to earth as that 'window' closes, so he's going to have a lot of pressure on him while the bubble bursts.

Lack was just as good as Schneider was, with a worse team on the AHL, and is another great goalie prospect. But there's already been signs that he could potentially be gone given the situation above him. He's a good goalie prospect for a team with a 'franchise' goalie who is being pushed to be replaced, by another potential franchise goalie. If he doesn't walk, he's probably going to be traded. Schneider is really the only blue chip prospect that can become a top at his postition that we have. Outside of him, maybe Kassian, and maybe Jensen, instead of being worried about one of them, as I said before, I'm more concerned that those are all we have.


LOL-worthy. Talk about being overly pessimistic.
This is not a REALISTIC prediction.

Our prospects are nothing special, but that doesn't make our future mediocre by any lengths.
We've been a top team for the last while. How do you propose we draft a franchise player, while consistently
picking between 25-30? In the short-to-immediate term we will still be a decent playoff team.
While it would be nice, it isn't reasonable to expect our prospects to be elite, impact players. Reasonable expectations, are for them to earn a spot, find a way to contribute, and improve their game over time.


Over the next 2,3,4 years I'd imagine the likes of Jensen, Lack, Kassian, Gaunce, Corrado could probably accomplish this. Of course, we can improve our drafting. But it isn't terrible by any lengths.
We're doing fine.

Look at the Kings. Outside of lotto pick Doughty, most of the youngsters (King, Nolan, Clifford, Voynov, Martinez) contributed as role players to a core of grizzled vets.

Edited by hockeywoot, 14 December 2012 - 10:49 PM.

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#32 nuck nit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:00 AM

Correct me if I am wrong but the Wolves just benched Kas -with the forward knowledge and support of Vancouver management.
If there was no need for concern this would not have transpired.
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#33 kmotamed

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:18 AM

We should trade him for this young guy out of Buffalo, think his name is Hodgson or something? =P
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#34 ajhockey

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

I voted yes. I honestly think that while the AHL's brand of hockey is a little different, that's no excuse. Even if it's just the AHL he should be workin' his butt off to prove that he's ready.

I didn't like the Hodgson trade, but I decided to withhold complete judgement until we saw if he (Kassian) actually performed or not. So far he hasn't done much in either the NHL or the AHL. He'd better get his butt in gear if he wants to prove me wrong.

Edited by ajhockey, 15 December 2012 - 04:48 AM.

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#35 Noheart

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:18 AM

Trade Kassian for Schultz then see what happens to production for each player.

We have a good pro team and a crappy minor team and its usually one or the other with some exceptions.

We don't get good draft picks cause we kick a$$

So y'all need to just let out some gas during that morning wiz and relax



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#36 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

I agree; the post you responded too was very negative and all is not doomsday.

But look at what LA did differently than us. Like us, with Kesler, Burrows and the Sedins they developed their best young players until they (Kopitar, Quick, Doughty) were ready for consistent prime time play.

What they did better was even more patiently collect an array of secondary talent and maintain a physically balanced team. Remember when we played them in the regular season before they hit their stride; they beat us up manhandled us. Their lineup is big and fast, on every line, in every position and very hard to match up against. Second; when they had no room at the top of their lineup they traded their up and comers (Schenn, Simmonds, Jack Johnson etc) for legitimate VETERAN core players who contributed to their run.

Sure we converted a questionable 1st rounder into Erhoff. But we have little results to date that have helped our cup runs for the other 1st rounders we traded (Bernier, Hodgson and Howden) where LA had Carter, Penner and Richards. Without Richards I don't believe LA beats us in the 1st round last year. Penner and Carter also scored key goals and played important roles. We got a buck rookie who had yet to learn how to train off his baby fat. Their GM simply outperformed our GM; even though Kassian will be a perfectly good player he was the wrong player at the wrong time!

Now as to the OP; no its not time to panic and we still owe it to ourselves to get what value we can from Kassian. Kassian is not the type of talent to carry a line, but he is capable of handling the the puck and converting when playing with good players. Plus of course you cannot teach size, speed or nastiness. You can teach durability and Kassian is clearly better but not yet where he needs to be with his training. It is a task to teach a big players body to carry high levels of intensity for big minutes. And they have to match the energy of the Dustin Brown's of the world to play a significant role. Its why PF's take longer to develop and why he still shows inconsistency. There are very few PF's with his speed and skills. So let him win battles for Haydar without putting his team at a disadvantage. Haydar is a career point a game guy in the AHL. We are asking him to demonstrate coming straight out of the corners to make plays which make his AHL line a success. If he can do that he may have a future playing shifts with the Twins.

Or be satisfied with developing him as a 3rd line physical force if he cannot. But what they are doing with Kassian right now, and he will have to step up to the task, is a great test to see if he can ultimately be a first line player.

At least in the future Kassian can also help us get closer to matching up physically with the Kings and Bruins?



LOL-worthy. Talk about being overly pessimistic.
This is not a REALISTIC prediction.

Our prospects are nothing special, but that doesn't make our future mediocre by any lengths.
We've been a top team for the last while. How do you propose we draft a franchise player, while consistently
picking between 25-30? In the short-to-immediate term we will still be a decent playoff team.
While it would be nice, it isn't reasonable to expect our prospects to be elite, impact players. Reasonable expectations, are for them to earn a spot, find a way to contribute, and improve their game over time.


Over the next 2,3,4 years I'd imagine the likes of Jensen, Lack, Kassian, Gaunce, Corrado could probably accomplish this. Of course, we can improve our drafting. But it isn't terrible by any lengths.
We're doing fine.

Look at the Kings. Outside of lotto pick Doughty, most of the youngsters (King, Nolan, Clifford, Voynov, Martinez) contributed as role players to a core of grizzled vets.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 15 December 2012 - 08:04 AM.

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#37 Nino

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

We should trade him for this young guy out of Buffalo, think his name is Hodgson or something? =P


Buffalo would never take the trade.
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#38 The Kassassin Train

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:27 AM

Buffalo would never take the trade.


Nor would we for an injury riddled crying sack of $hit. What's your point?

Edited by The Kassassin Train, 15 December 2012 - 09:35 AM.

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The key difference is that Sopel can fill in for Seabrook and Campbell just fine. Bieksa, he is garbage so in that sense he is like the worst defenseman in the league.


When Cody (Hodgson) gets older, he might be better than Datsyuk.


Let's not push this guy (Kassian). He's still immature, and if he fails on the 2nd line it's because he isn't ready. Some guys really need years to develop, it's how well and how fast players adapt to the game. In my opinion, I'd rather have Horvat getting 2nd line minutes. He will start off on the 3rd line next season but I see him making the transition, being a great compliment to whoever plays his wings.

At this point, I don't see Kassian fitting in to any role other than a 3rd. If players like Kassian start getting 2nd line minutes then we just stay inconsistent as a team.


The idiocy on CDC....

#39 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

Yes.
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#40 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:47 AM

I actually think we need to make a hard look at our development system. I'm not happy with Chicago, and yes Arneil seems to be part of the problem. I thought Craig MacTavish wasn't good at developing young players, Arneil doesn't even seem to have a game plan.

I'm glad the Canucks only signed a 2 year deal. To be honest I think we need to re-evaluate our system to make sure players like Kassian, K-Conn, and others are getting the best coaching and development possible.
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#41 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:00 PM

Our prospects and development system is terrible right now. Kassian looks disinterested half time time in the AHL and doesn't play defense. He's no Bertuzzi where he can just cherrypick all game long. If Gillis doesn't get some legit prospects in the Luongo,Schneider trade then I'll be pissed.

Jensen looks good in the Swedish Leage but who knows how he will fare in the NHL.
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#42 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:16 PM

He needs to get his priorities straight, learn what he wants to do with his career and what he's playing for. I could see him being great, hopefully he doesn't make us regret the Hodgson trade.. :rolleyes: Sick of hearing about it.
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#43 Zoolander

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

Half the time, he isn't even playing on the same line as Schroeder...our only decent centre. If he was playing on a line like...

Kreider-Granlund-Kassian, or a mix of any other skilled/strong players, his point production would most likely double. Being the biggest offensive weapon on the ice, but having almost no one else to match your skill on your team, makes you an easy target to defend.
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#44 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

Kassian isn't supposed to be absolutely torching opponents with his offense, that's not the kind of player the Canucks acquired him to be. I think he's been playing well.
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#45 disisdayear

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

So he's not the answer to our first line anymore? His inconsistency has been the book on him, I was a little concerned when we got him because motivation is almost impossible to teach. I see him as a third or forth line player on the Canucks. The real problem is because of the expectations that are being put on him (and I have no idea where these expectations come from) he will probably be viewed as a frailer when in fact there is nothing wrong with being a third or forth line player. May not have been the best trade but that's hardly his fault.

Edit: you should add a third option to the poll, something like. "No the expectations were just to high for him"


Expectations were created by MG when he provided rationalizations for the trade that was made, which has been discussed to great lengths on the CDC board. Your concerns about his consistency is shared by many.

Not sure what it takes for these guys with all the tools to get it through their thick cranium to realize they need to bring it everyday to be effective at the elite level. But until Kassian is able to figure this out and deliver consistently, he'll be nothing more than a prospect with tremendous potential and the hockey world is full of these guys. He seems to have done all the right things to prepare for the 2012-2013 season, but it's disappointing when he gets put in the press box at the AHL level for failing to show up every night (same goes for Jordan Schroeder, who you would think would be highly motivated to show that he's ready to make the jump to the NHL in light of the opportunities with the big club, IF there was an NHL season).

Hopefully Scott Arniel will be able to instill in Kassian what it takes to be a top flight AHLer, and what it takes to be a legitimate NHL power forward.

On another note, who here thinks Jordan Schroeder's future is more Andrew Ebbett-like than Andy McDonald-like? Though he's leading the Wolves in scoring (a fairly unimpressive 22-7-7-14), I'm starting to think that he'll end up being a very good AHLer, but will have a hard time consistently playing in the big show.
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#46 surtur

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

I voted yes. I honestly think that while the AHL's brand of hockey is a little different, that's no excuse. Even if it's just the AHL he should be workin' his butt off to prove that he's ready.

I didn't like the Hodgson trade, but I decided to withhold complete judgement until we saw if he (Kassian) actually performed or not. So far he hasn't done much in either the NHL or the AHL. He'd better get his butt in gear if he wants to prove me wrong.

i am sure your number one on his list to prove anything to.
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#47 Nino

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:43 PM

i am sure your number one on his list to prove anything to.


I see your sarcasm, but don't you think he should be trying to prove himself to the fans and management?

So far he has had one good game in the NHL (vs his former team, if you can't get up for that what can you get up for). Now he's benched in the minors. He was benched in the playoffs when he was the type of player we needed.

I think the problem is that he, just like a lot of you thought he should have a free ride to the top line. I hear some of you say "he's not playing well because they won't play him with the right players"..... Really LOL its not the way it works, he needs to first prove he can make the team and work hard, I thought that would not be a problem on the farm but I was wrong.

If they want to develop him right he should stay on the farm next year as well.
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#48 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

If he has huge gaps of not much productivity/struggles for much of the season then yes it should be a concern. How will he translate any success to the NHL if he AHL is too tough?
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#49 Jaku

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:04 PM

Don't write off Kassian before he gets the chance to prove himself. He may be struggling in the AHL right now, but like previously stated, he cannot do this all by himself, he needs support, and the team is not providing any. If he was on a team that had players that were a PPG and he wasn't producing, then i'd be worried.
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#50 Nino

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

Don't write off Kassian before he gets the chance to prove himself. He may be struggling in the AHL right now, but like previously stated, he cannot do this all by himself, he needs support, and the team is not providing any. If he was on a team that had players that were a PPG and he wasn't producing, then i'd be worried.


LOL...... So that's why he's benched, because the team is not providing him support? It has nothing to do with the support he's not providing the team, right? If he needs more support get him a wonder bra.

Edit: I don't want a player on the Canucks that can only work hard if he has the right support. You win with motivated players that fight for every play, you loose with players that only play hard when they "have the right support".

Edited by Nino, 15 December 2012 - 03:11 PM.

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#51 Tangerines

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:16 PM

Buffalo would never take the trade.

Buffalo would never take the trade.


Neither would I. They can keep him and I'm glad we have Kassian instead.
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#52 Tangerines

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

Half the time, he isn't even playing on the same line as Schroeder...our only decent centre. If he was playing on a line like...

Kreider-Granlund-Kassian, or a mix of any other skilled/strong players, his point production would most likely double. Being the biggest offensive weapon on the ice, but having almost no one else to match your skill on your team, makes you an easy target to defend.


^^^^^
THIS
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#53 Jaku

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:21 PM

LOL...... So that's why he's benched, because the team is not providing him support? It has nothing to do with the support he's not providing the team, right? If he needs more support get him a wonder bra.

Edit: I don't want a player on the Canucks that can only work hard if he has the right support. You win with motivated players that fight for every play, you loose with players that only play hard when they "have the right support".


I get what you are saying. Kassian hasn't been playing his hardest, sure so he sits. We want a player that will play his hardest every night on the roster. But you can't expect a lone player to produce points without some support.
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#54 Tangerines

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

He's only gone a few games without getting a point geez. He was on a pretty good point streak until Arniel benched him for whatever reason. Good way to take confidence away from one of your best forwards. Hey Kass is having a pretty good point streak, so I know, lets bench him cuz he's not doing enough. Yeah maybe he made a couple of mistakes, but who doesn't? Does that warrant a benching? You're supposed to make mistakes in the AHL thats where you improve and learn to not make the same ones again. F off Arniel. I hope he doesn't ruin our young talant with his stupid methods.

Edited by JohnLennon, 15 December 2012 - 03:29 PM.

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#55 Nino

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

He's only gone a few games without getting a point geez. He was on a pretty good point streak until Arniel benched him for whatever reason. Good way to take confidence away from one of your best forwards. Hey Kass is having a pretty good point streak, so I know, lets bench him cuz he's not doing enough. Yeah maybe he made a couple of mistakes, but who doesn't? Does that warrant a benching? You're supposed to make mistakes in the AHL thats where you improve and learn to not make the same ones again. F off Arniel. I hope he doesn't ruin our young talant with his stupid methods.


So have you watched the games? Because I haven't. If you haven't then your assuming that he is working hard and getting benched because he has gone a few games without a point, right? I'm willing to bet that's not the case and he is not working hard (we saw it in Vancouver). I think the report was that his benching was approved by Canucks brass.

Edit: what you are supposed to do is work hard in the AHL and show your ready for the NHL, that's what your supposed to do. You are NOT supposed to be benched for not working hard.

Edited by Nino, 15 December 2012 - 03:41 PM.

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#56 kazin!

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

Frank Corrado is 6'1 and 195 pounds at 19 years old, since when is that small?

Erik Karlsson - 6 foot 180 pounds
Brian Campbell - 5'10 190 pounds
Dan Boyle - 5'11 190 pounds
Mark Streit - 5'11 195 pounds
Ryan Suter - 6'1 195 pounds
Kevin Bieksa - 6'1 200 pounds
Kimo Timonem - 5'10 190 pounds
Keith Yandle - 6'1 190 pounds
Kevin Shattenkirk - 5'11 205 pounds
Kris Letang - 6 feet 200 pounds
Michael Del Zotto - 6 feet 190 pounds
Duncan Keith - 6'1 200 pounds
Nick Leddy - 6 feet, 190 pounds

Those small guys that "don't really do much in the big leagues" all happen to be in the top 25 of nhl defense scoring from last season and just happen to be the same size or even smaller than Frank Corrado. You don't know what you're talking about!

And regarding Cody Hodgson...... Look you may still be bitter about the way it went down with the Canucks, but you can't ignore the facts :

1. captain of his junior team
2. top 10 draft pick
3. former Chl player of the year
4. 5th ALL TIME points in a year by a Canadian at the world juniors, only behind the likes of Wayne Gretzky, Eric Lindros, Brayden Schenn..
5. 5th in rookie scoring last season despite averaging 13 minutes per game, while everyone ahead of him averaged 17 minutes or more. ( Thats 328 minutes of ice time advantage over a whole season they had on Hodgson)
6. Captain of his Ahl team

Everything points to him being more than an "decent second liner at best" as you say.


Quick google search shows he does not wear a letter for the Rochester Americans.

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#57 Tangerines

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:05 PM

So have you watched the games? Because I haven't. If you haven't then your assuming that he is working hard and getting benched because he has gone a few games without a point, right? I'm willing to bet that's not the case and he is not working hard (we saw it in Vancouver). I think the report was that his benching was approved by Canucks brass.

Edit: what you are supposed to do is work hard in the AHL and show your ready for the NHL, that's what your supposed to do. You are NOT supposed to be benched for not working hard.


Yes I have been watching the games actually, and up until his benching he didn't look any worse than any other player on the team when on the ice. Actually to me he seemed like one of the only bright spots, and others who have watched the games would agree with me. He is always working hard when going in the corners and on the fore check, besides getting some points along the way (including two goals that were called back on him that should not have been disallowed). Yes of course he could be better, but so could everyone else on this team. I think his defensive game needs some work, but that will improve in time. What I don't understand is why Ebbet is on the top line. He hasn't really been much of a leader or contributer on the ice from what i've seen, and yet he gets rewarded with top mins es, pp, and pk. Would it kill Arneil to put Kassian on a line with Shroeder once in a while that way someone can pass him the puck? If you have watched all of his goals this year in the AHL he pretty much does all of the work on his own. I think this guy can be great if he has the right players and leaders around him. This would also give him a jolt in the right direction just incase he isn't performing at the level he should be. I just don't think Arneil is that guy. I hope I'm wrong.

Edited by JohnLennon, 15 December 2012 - 08:30 PM.

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#58 Rick Rypien

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:41 PM

What do you expect when he's playing with bums? PWF's need to play with good players to produce.


Power Forwards do not need to be surrounded by talent to produce. Hence the numbers of guys like Nash, Iginla and to a lesser extent Doan.
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#59 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

Kassian is the only Wolves-level prospect i am not concerned about.
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#60 playboi19

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

2 assists for the Kass tonight.
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