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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1411 D-Money

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

Was same announcement made in game 6, game 7, and game 8 of the 2012/13 season?


Equating 3 games at the beginning of the regular season to 3 playoff games (when your team is already down 0-2 in the series), is nothing less than sheer ignorance.
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#1412 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:11 PM

Wow. Easily your worst post.


For a those 2 players, in the same offer. They would be considered scraps. And I'm one who is heavily on the bandwagon of all of the players in question.

Deal makes no sense for Winnipeg. I doubt they would even do Kane for all of that (Taking out Schneider)
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#1413 oldnews

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:12 PM

Interesting. Not exactly the same sentiment around here for Kassian, another kid with 6 points.

Must be pure coincidence, eh?

:bigblush:


I must have missed something. Has someone been claiming that Kassian is more valuable than an allstar, hof goaltender?

Oh that's right, the Canucks don't need a goaltender.

Curious about something King - who would you take - Kassian or Kadri?

Edited by oldnews, 02 February 2013 - 03:13 PM.

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#1414 sampy

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

That deal won't get it done, and I disagree I think Ballard and Edler are capable.

The Canucks biggest problem on the PP is breaking the blue line. It's obvious and talked about a lot.
The Canucks best year on the PP was when they had Ehrhoff carrying the puck up. They have struggled this year and last. The drop pass worked for a while but now is very predictable.
The Canucks have a glaring weakness in that role in the system.
I like a lot of other teams forward prospects but if the Canucks are trading with the Leafs, one of their offensive dmen need to be targeted.
They do not need anymore secondary forward or rental players in a trade.
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#1415 D-Money

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:18 PM

Your back to back President's trophy team is a Moneyball, regular season team. It does not translate into great playoff performance. Hopefully having mixed it up a bit by having Kassian. On te top line, some more toughness, a healthy Kesler and Booth will do wonders.


Do you even realize what utter nonsense that is?

'My back to back Presidents Trophy team' is a dominant force in the league, and has only lost to the Stanley Cup winning team 3 years in a row. Even then, they haven't lost a series since 2006-07 when they have had at least as good of goaltending as the opposing team.
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#1416 oldnews

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:18 PM

For a those 2 players, in the same offer. They would be considered scraps. And I'm one who is heavily on the bandwagon of all of the players in question.

Deal makes no sense for Winnipeg. I doubt they would even do Kane for all of that (Taking out Schneider)


Sub Luongo for Schneider and it's a good proposal lol.

It's a 101 proposal Smashian - there is one basic point to his proposals - to move Schneider - I'm not sure making sense is much of a motivation there.

Anyway, regardless of how you qualify it after the fact, there are no "scraps" in that (odd) proposal, but at least Byfgulien and Kane makes sense to us, as opposed to Phaneuf and Kessel. :rolleyes:

Edited by oldnews, 02 February 2013 - 03:21 PM.

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#1417 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:19 PM

The Canucks biggest problem on the PP is breaking the blue line. It's obvious and talked about a lot.
The Canucks best year on the PP was when they had Ehrhoff carrying the puck up. They have struggled this year and last. The drop pass worked for a while but now is very predictable.
The Canucks have a glaring weakness in that role in the system.
I like a lot of other teams forward prospects but if the Canucks are trading with the Leafs, one of their offensive dmen need to be targeted.
They do not need anymore secondary forward or rental players in a trade.


It's because we do the same damn predictable strategies to gain the line, if the coaching staff would wake up and realize we need a change we would be alot better. We should also give Ballard a chance. He is a bit better skater than even Ehrhoff IMO.
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#1418 lowest common denominator

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

The basis for this post - that 'most goalies come into their prime in their early 30's' - is flat-out FALSE.

A while back, I researched a bunch of NHL starting goaltenders from the past, and the majority of them had their stats majorly fall off at around 34 - the age Luongo is right now. The only goalie in recent years to hit his prime years in his early-to-mid-30's was Tim Thomas - who didn't start playing in the NHL until he was around 30.

Relatively few elite goaltenders can continue to provide top-notch goaltending into their mid-to-late 30's. One of the benefits of giving Luongo these starts is that it gives evidence that he may, in fact, be one of those goalies. There may have been trepidation after his stats noticeably dipped last year. Add in a shortened season, and Luongo's penchant for slow starts, and these past few games may have increased interest among suitors who previously had doubts.


I dunno, by definition, "Elite" means a select few. To me Roy, Hasek and Brodeur are the only goalies in the past 30 years that can be labelled elite. They played til the agesof 38, 43 and 40(still going) and had no real decline in numbers.

Luongo is probably incredibly motivated to shed his rep as a big game choker, if he can stay off his face like he did last night, he might have a chance.
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#1419 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:21 PM

Sub Luongo for Schneider and it's a good proposal lol.

It's a 101 proposal Smashian - there is one basic point to his proposals - to move Schneider - I'm not sure making sense is much of a motivation there.

Anyway, regardless of how you qualify it after the fact, there are no "scraps" in that (odd) proposal.


Ballard and Raymond have proven themselves to be scraps, playing great this year, big fan of both but it is what they have proven themselves to be (The last 2 years)

Nontheless I agree, 101 needs to realize Luongo's great games don't change anything. I expected him to play like this as he is a star goalie, not sure what everyone expected to happen, when you have a star goalie he is going to preform. Schneider should still be the one who stays though.
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#1420 oldnews

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

Ballard and Raymond have proven themselves to be scraps, playing great this year, big fan of both but it is what they have proven themselves to be (The last 2 years)


just stop.
and Schroeder and a 1st were also "scraps" in that deal.

Edited by oldnews, 02 February 2013 - 03:24 PM.

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#1421 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

Ballard and Raymond have proven themselves to be scraps, playing great this year, big fan of both but it is what they have proven themselves to be (The last 2 years)

Nontheless I agree, 101 needs to realize Luongo's great games don't change anything. I expected him to play like this as he is a star goalie, not sure what everyone expected to happen, when you have a star goalie he is going to preform. Schneider should still be the one who stays though.


Edited by iluvbc, 02 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

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#1422 sampy

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

It's because we do the same damn predictable strategies to gain the line, if the coaching staff would wake up and realize we need a change we would be alot better. We should also give Ballard a chance. He is a bit better skater than even Ehrhoff IMO.


As AV says, 'you work with what you got' and as proven, they don't.
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#1423 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

just stop.
and Schroeder and a 1st were also "scraps" in that deal.


No Ballard and Raymond are.

Are Schroeder and a late 1st enough to get Byfuglien and Kane?

Just stop.
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#1424 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:47 PM


I'm not jumping on or off any bandwagon, I have maintained that I am a huge Luongo fan but that Schneider is our guy.

And who is this rookie goalie? Is Eddie Lack or Joe Cannata being called up to take over the starters job?

We are talking about Cory Schneider, a guy so well that we decided to trade the greatest goalie we have ever had to keep him, because he is that good with that much upside.

Just stop ignoring the fact that Lu is the one going, wants to go and we want to move forward with Cory, it's best for both sides.

Edited by hockeyville88, 02 February 2013 - 04:03 PM.

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#1425 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:47 PM

No Ballard and Raymond are.

Are Schroeder and a late 1st enough to get Byfuglien and Kane?

Just stop.


VAN
Byfuglien
Kane

WPG
Schneider
Ballard
Raymond
Schroeder
1st

is the offer. Not Schroeder and a 1st for Byfuglien and Kane.
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#1426 oldnews

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:49 PM

MG said a few days ago on the radio that Luongo requested a move.

[size=4]

I'm sure Winnipeg would be delighted to give up their two best players, for a young goalie (When they already have a very good one) and a bunch of scraps.

No Ballard and Raymond are.

Are Schroeder and a late 1st enough to get Byfuglien and Kane?


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#1427 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

VAN
Byfuglien
Kane

WPG
Schneider
Ballard
Raymond
Schroeder
1st

is the offer. Not Schroeder and a 1st for Byfuglien and Kane.


Okay first off, why would they have any interest in Schneider?? They have Pavelec.

Now removing Schneider from the equation for a second and looking at everything else. Where is the incentive for them to make that move?

Byfuglien >>>>>>> Ballard + Raymond

Kane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schroeder + 1st


They likely wouldn't move Kane for that package alone let alone adding in Byfuglien.

Another example of quantity for quality.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 02 February 2013 - 03:51 PM.

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#1428 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

Nothing "emotional" about it whatsoever - that's the hard, cold reality - those are two of the most over-rated players in the NHL, evidenced daily on these boards. What is emotional is you calling this "hatred" = ridiculous. Emotional, defensive, adolescent thinking equates critical thinkng with 'hatred'.

You're right in one sense - with Phaneuf we would be getting another, even more highly priced third pairing defenseman. We already have to listen to enough whining regarding our outstanding blueline - with Phaneuf the complaints about his vacancy would never end.

And unlike Raymond, with Kessel we'd have a floater in our lineup taking up twice the cap hit and giving up twice as many scoring chances as he generates. His uninspired, patchwork performances would grow very old in a big hurry. Even Leafs fans, who are probably as tolerant as any, have had enough of these guys.

And I see the Schneider, Schroeder and a 1st are an afterthought for you.
That would be the rebuild on the go that the Leafs desperately need - but not at our expense thanks.


That there is some ownage... :lol:
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#1429 DeNiro

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

They're gonna screw this situation up if they conitnue like this.

Schneider's only signed two more seasons after this, and then who knows if he'll even wanna stay after that. And then who's our number 1 goalie?
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#1430 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

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Thomas so cheap. Nice car.
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#1431 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:57 PM

They're gonna screw this situation up if they conitnue like this.

Schneider's only signed two more seasons after this, and then who knows if he'll even wanna stay after that. And then who's our number 1 goalie?


I don't think he will bail on us for this, he knows he will be the guy and I'm sure he knew full well this was a serious possibility.

After all they did sit down and discuss it with his agent, and I highly doubt they left any stone unturned.
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#1432 WolfxHaley

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

Anybody who wouldn't is nothing short of crazy.

I am personally shocked at these Kessel trade rumours coming out of Toronto. Can't imagine them trading Kessel would turn out well. If anything, trade Lupul, maybe even trade Phaneuf. But 24 year-old Phil Kessel? Good luck replacing him. Yeah, he has 0 goals so far, but he's getting nearly 5 SOG per game. They would be nuts to move him.

Even if it was for Tyler Seguin, Doug Hamilton and Jared Knight?
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#1433 DeNiro

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:07 PM

I don't think he will bail on us for this, he knows he will be the guy and I'm sure he knew full well this was a serious possibility.

After all they did sit down and discuss it with his agent, and I highly doubt they left any stone unturned.


Yea, but he's 26 going on 27. He's payed his dues, and this was supposed to be the season that he finally takes over the number 1 spot. Now it looks like he's in the same position as before.

Is management gonna flip flop again and all of a sudden decide they wanna keep Luongo?

I think it's fine now, but it has the potential to blow up in their faces.
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#1434 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:11 PM

Yea, but he's 26 going on 27. He's payed his dues, and this was supposed to be the season that he finally takes over the number 1 spot. Now it looks like he's in the same position as before.

Is management gonna flip flop again and all of a sudden decide they wanna keep Luongo?

I think it's fine now, but it has the potential to blow up in their faces.


This situation won't extend into the next season. The Longest Luongo stays is till the offseason.

If we get into next year and Luongo is still here (Which I can't see happening) then he will probably want to know what's going on, but until then I suspect he understands whats going on and is fine with the situation.

Also not sure why we would flip flop. Everyone is coming out saying keep Luongo cause he has had a great stretch of games, but to me this was expected, he is an star goalie, I expected him to preform, really it doesn't change anything IMO, I think we are making way to much out of this.

It is great we have them both and we should use them both as well as we can while we still have this luxury but it in now way changes who we are going with long term.
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#1435 Goal:thecup

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

We could stay with Luongo and Schneider this year and we might even win the Cup (yes please Thor). It would be quite a gamble though, to not trade Luongo after all that has transpired.

We cannot trade Schneider and keep Luongo and still maintain integrity unless the offer for Schneider is just incredibly overwhelming.

If we trade Luongo, we can expect to get an excellent return. If we include some assets in the system that no longer fit the plan, we can get even more.

If we trade Luongo, we need a qualified backup goalie. Lack is gone for the year and no one else in the system is good enough or ready.

We do not need to get the backup goalie in the Luongo trade. We have lots of assets we can use to get a good one.

We do not want any of the Leafs players or prospects and Luongo probably does not want to go to Toronto. (Was it ever confirmed that Luongo had turned down a move to TO?)

Washington, NYI, Florida, maybe Philly and perhaps others, are probably in the running for Luongo. Wonder who the Canucks are looking at for the new backup goalie.

We still need to get faster, bigger, tougher, younger, and cannot wait to see what GMMG will bring back for Luongo (and other expendable assets).

Edited by Goal:thecup, 02 February 2013 - 05:02 PM.

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#1436 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

We could stay with Luongo and Schneider this year and we might even with the Cup (yes please Thor). It would be quite a gamble though, to not trade Luongo after all that has transpired.

We cannot trade Schneider and keep Luongo and still maintain integrity unless the offer for Schneider is just incredibly overwhelming.

If we trade Luongo, we can expect to get an excellent return. If we include some assets in the system that no longer fit the plan, we can get even more.

If we trade Luongo, we need a qualified backup goalie. Lack is gone for the year and no one else in the system is good enough or ready.

We do not need to get the backup goalie in the Luongo trade. We have lots of assets we can use to get a good one.

We do not want any of the Leafs players or prospects and Luongo probably does not want to go to Toronto. (Was it ever confirmed that Luongo had turned down a move to TO?)

Washington, NYI, Florida, maybe Philly and perhaps others, are probably in the running for Luongo. Wonder who the Canucks are looking at for the new backup goalie.

We still need to get faster, bigger, tougher, younger, and cannot wait to see what GMMG will bring back for Luongo (and other expendable assets).


Bravo, great post. I m a fan of Climie as a potential backup.
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#1437 Goal:thecup

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:01 PM

Bravo, great post. I m a fan of Climie as a potential backup.


I only watched a couple Wolves games and he did not impress me much.

Do you really think he is ready for the show?
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#1438 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

We could stay with Luongo and Schneider this year and we might even with the Cup (yes please Thor). It would be quite a gamble though, to not trade Luongo after all that has transpired.

We cannot trade Schneider and keep Luongo and still maintain integrity unless the offer for Schneider is just incredibly overwhelming.

If we trade Luongo, we can expect to get an excellent return. If we include some assets in the system that no longer fit the plan, we can get even more.

If we trade Luongo, we need a qualified backup goalie. Lack is gone for the year and no one else in the system is good enough or ready.

We do not need to get the backup goalie in the Luongo trade. We have lots of assets we can use to get a good one.

We do not want any of the Leafs players or prospects and Luongo probably does not want to go to Toronto. (Was it ever confirmed that Luongo had turned down a move to TO?)

Washington, NYI, Florida, maybe Philly and perhaps others, are probably in the running for Luongo. Wonder who the Canucks are looking at for the new backup goalie.

We still need to get faster, bigger, tougher, younger, and cannot wait to see what GMMG will bring back for Luongo (and other expendable assets).


I completely agree with your post except the bolded parts.

I would be quite interested in Matt Frattin, & of course a 1st, aswell as guys like Biggs, Finn and even Kadri (not that I think they would trade him)

As for NYI, they simply can't afford Lu while they have Dipietro, they can't afford to buyout Rick and we won't take him, it is an unaviodable road block and really they aren't in a position to give up young assets for Luongo right now anyways as they aren't a playoff team with Lu. I don't see how that would make sense for them.

And Bryz has been playing quite well for Philly, as long as he continues this they won't be needing a goalie.

Aside from that great post, +1.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 02 February 2013 - 05:04 PM.

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#1439 King of the ES

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

just stop.
and Schroeder and a 1st were also "scraps" in that deal.


It's unfair to call Raymond & Ballard scraps, but it's perfectly reasonable to call Kessel & Phaneuf two of the most overrated players in the entire NHL. Keep up the good work.
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#1440 SMR

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:21 PM

We could stay with Luongo and Schneider this year and we might even win the Cup (yes please Thor). It would be quite a gamble though, to not trade Luongo after all that has transpired.

We cannot trade Schneider and keep Luongo and still maintain integrity unless the offer for Schneider is just incredibly overwhelming.

If we trade Luongo, we can expect to get an excellent return. If we include some assets in the system that no longer fit the plan, we can get even more.

If we trade Luongo, we need a qualified backup goalie. Lack is gone for the year and no one else in the system is good enough or ready.

We do not need to get the backup goalie in the Luongo trade. We have lots of assets we can use to get a good one.

We do not want any of the Leafs players or prospects and Luongo probably does not want to go to Toronto. (Was it ever confirmed that Luongo had turned down a move to TO?)

Washington, NYI, Florida, maybe Philly and perhaps others, are probably in the running for Luongo. Wonder who the Canucks are looking at for the new backup goalie.

We still need to get faster, bigger, tougher, younger, and cannot wait to see what GMMG will bring back for Luongo (and other expendable assets).


I don't have a link or know if a recording is available, but Trevor Linden was on the Beat 94.5 mid last week promoting his new Club 16 location. Talk turned to Luongo and Linden mentioned that he thinks Luongo would love to play in TO. He went on to say that Vancouver fans don't understand it, but Toronto is the mecca of hockey.

For what it's worth, Linden mentioned that he thinks Luo will go to TO.
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