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Raymond... keep or trade?


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#61 timberz21

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:30 AM

Trade him right F?#!%@G now (LOL), his value is somewhat high now. He's a streaky player and I think he can be easily replaced by Jensen/Kassian next year.

I think Mason is not solid enough to be a 2nd liner on a contender, but he doesn't fit well on our bottom 6 either, Higgins and Hansen are better suited.

I'd be happy with a 2nd round pick in this year, since it is a deep draft.

#62 Vansicle

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

Don't think it'll matter. Buffalo loves Ott, and is trying to re-sign him. Ott has much more value than Raymond on either team. Ott does everything. If Raymond isn't scoring he's invisible. There's plenty of guys who can play a better defensive/grind/PK game then him.

Hilariously false.
Raymond doesn't hit or fight, granted. But to say that unless he's "scoring he's invisible" is patently false.
He plays a defensively responsible game, his speed creates chances for his line-mates, his back check is impressive, he's a good passer, etc. His game away from the puck is better than average.

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#63 Pears

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:30 AM

Keep Raymond unless he's packaged for a guy like Iginla

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#64 wizeman

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

I have never wanted to trade Raymond. I think he is excellent. Lets re sign him.

#65 riffraff

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

Obviously gillis is going to sign him to a fifteen year 4.75 NTC.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#66 Bodee

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:52 AM

All you people talking about streaky player, not there in the playoffs da da da da da.

Who exactly are you comparing him with? I would be interested to know which of them severely damaged their back and had a number of other play affecting injuries.

It was a miracle this player came back as soon as he did.

It is also a myth he doesn't perform in the playoffs. He has the 5th highest number of shots and 6th highest points despite injuries.
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#67 TimberWolf

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:33 AM

Trade any player for the right deal that makes us better. If that deal isn't there, then don't

I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#68 Baggins

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:49 AM

Completely agree. The guy took a paycut this year to prove his worth so I expect him to look for a nice raise after this season.
This is great in a sense that he's stepping up and scoring timely goals when we need him to (with our injury depleted line up) and it also sets us up to make a nice trade at the deadline because I think he has definitely upped his value this season.
This guy was negative value last season.
If we could add a solid piece (proven performer) by packaging Raymond + another asset (draft pick, roster player or prospect) we should definitely move forward because despite his play as of late, there's too many question marks with Raymond (playoff performance, contract year, whether he can sustain this play, etc)
Raymond's career ceiling will be 25 goals
Right now, he is playing lights out (in terms of his potential) where we are happy with his performance again but at the end of the day, he's still only on pace for 46 pts and 23 goals in a regular 82 game season.
If we can get a perennial 50 pt player who has grit, why on earth wouldn't we trade for him?


You're not going to get what you're looking for. Raymond is a ufa at the end of the year. This means teams out of the playoffs won't be interested. Teams in the playoff picture are looking to add pieces not subtract them. Anybody interested in Raymond would be looking to trade prospects/picks as opposed to quality roster players for him. Which won't help our playoff picture at all. Unlike ea, a trade in real life has to benefit both sides.

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#69 Baggins

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:54 AM

Keep Raymond unless he's packaged for a guy like Iginla


The only western teams on Iginla's list are Detroit and LA. What would be the point in Calgary trading their pending ufa for our pending ufa?

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#70 Vansicle

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:03 AM

You're not going to get what you're looking for. Raymond is a ufa at the end of the year. This means teams out of the playoffs won't be interested. Teams in the playoff picture are looking to add pieces not subtract them. Anybody interested in Raymond would be looking to trade prospects/picks as opposed to quality roster players for him. Which won't help our playoff picture at all. Unlike ea, a trade in real life has to benefit both sides.

That's why I prefer 2K . . . badda boom!

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#71 Blueberries

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

Keep.

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#72 BenDrinkin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

We are a team struggling to score, so you guys want to trade one of the players that is actually scoring. Good idea.

#73 thad

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:22 AM

I have to admit he's proved me wrong. Resign him if he will take a manageable deal.

He looks different this year finally playing with a real playmaker. 27 years old so he's just entering his prime years here. The next 3 or 4 years will probably be his career years. Keep the home grown talent and get rid of Booth Ballard.



#74 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

KEEP

Even with a full, healthy lineup there is still space for him.

D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Higgins
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Weise - Lapierre - Kassian
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#75 Puckster

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:28 AM

I was miffed with his play last year.
BUT, he was recovering from a major back injury....

This year with Hansen and Shroeder , Guys that can keep up with him and can distribute the puck....
I would not break the chemistry these guys are enoying...especially when it translates onto the scoreboard!

#76 CanucksJay

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:55 AM

You're not going to get what you're looking for. Raymond is a ufa at the end of the year. This means teams out of the playoffs won't be interested. Teams in the playoff picture are looking to add pieces not subtract them. Anybody interested in Raymond would be looking to trade prospects/picks as opposed to quality roster players for him. Which won't help our playoff picture at all. Unlike ea, a trade in real life has to benefit both sides.


I honestly have to admit, there's not much I can say about this post. I agree.
A seller is not looking for a UFA, they are looking for prospects or picks.
I guess the only way we trade him is if we trade him for a prospect and a pick to a playoff team looking to add to their 2nd or 3rd line and then package up that pick and prospect with something else to get a better forward than Raymond...

Sounds like a lot of work...

But the point is, he had ZERO trade value last year but this year he actually has some value.
We don't know how he will perform in the playoffs and he will prob ask for a raise and we may lose him for nothing in the summer.

It's a tough call but I still think we should explore the option of trading him to upgrade our 2nd line winger position even if it means making a couple more moves.

#77 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

For starters, Hansen is contracted for 1.35 mill, this season and next. What are you talking about, too many 3rd line $3 mill wingers???

:ph34r:

And Raymond most expendable?

Well off the top line he's our most versatile scoring forward with Kesler injured. He's virtually the one Canuck this year routinely catching goalies unaware sniping goals from all over the place. Slap shots off the break, a hot wrist shot cutting through the slot, dekes, the spin o'rama in the shoot out... Hansen would be next in line, but he does not add the same element of puck control. Raymond has looked dangerous all year!

I say keep, and get our physicality elsewhere. We're back to 8 games above 500 (even i caught myself looking at doomsday) without Kesler. We're gonna get him back and have Booth + Manny's equivalent salary to spend at the deadline. Can't see us offloading Raymond for futures.

It depends whether or not the Canucks think he is a top six forward or not. If you are going to pay Hansen and Raymond both 3 Million, then you have a problem because that's too much for 2 guys who are 3rd liners and unproven top six forwards. If I had to choose one, it would be Hansen easily. Then, there's Higgins. Unfortunately, it isn't necessarily who is the guy with more skill, it's the guy with more chemistry with Kesler. That's why Higgins should be re-signed. Raymond is the odd man out, imo.

The only way, all three(the 3rd liners, that are occasionally on the 2nd line). Is that, Jordan Schoeder solidifies himself as a 3rd line center, and that the team somehow finds a way to get rid of Booth, Ballard, Luongo, and a lot more salary. It's also key, to sign a proper scoring forward.

Real Lucky that Hansen has an one more year in his contract, so there's time but I've said it at the start of the season. Only one of Raymond, Booth, or Higgins will stay. Trying to move Booth will be difficult, Raymond may be able to land more money/better roster spot elsewhere, and Higgins will probably be the cheapest and has the best chemistry with Kesler.

Add the fact that Kassian should be eventually getting better, and Jensen is stepping up. There's no reason to sign so many wingers for around the 3M. Raymond is probably the most expendable.


Gotta watch some games to post I reckon? Raymond is a great penalty killer. He has speed and a decent reach, gets out after whomever has the puck and uses his stick to make guys pass it on the perimeter. And while not a grinder in the traditional sense (he's not physical), few players cover as much territory or hound the puck when the opposition has it better than Raymond. Especially on the PK!

There's plenty of guys who can play a better defensive/grind/PK game then him.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 25 March 2013 - 11:32 AM.


#78 apollo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

If he wants go stay then by all means I would love for him to re sign.

Doubt he will though... too much abuse from fans and media. He's going to be a special player... late bloomer for sure
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#79 GLASSJAW

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

You mean like he did last season? :picard:


Btw, the year after his 25 goal season his even strength production was just about identical despite a broken thumb and shoulder injury. Where his production dropped was on the pp. Which should have been expected. When you combine getting 33% less pp time with your 70 point center is replaced with a 30 point center a drop in production is to be expected. Which is to say he wasn't "garbage" that season.


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#80 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

Keep for the year... see how he does in the playoffs.

That Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen line looks dangerous every time they are on the ice.
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#81 10Bure14Burrows

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:06 PM

Why not kassian ? He is not first liner , nor second line winger. .

Better Gillis trade him with 2013 4th round pick . For Sam gagner
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#82 Belsy91

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

Couldn't say I've always been a Raymond fan but I will admit he's been valuable and one of our more consistent players this year, that said...his trade value is probably the highest it's been since his back injury and moving him for a centre would be something I'm not opposed to.

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#83 dorrcoq

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:46 PM

I've never been a Raymond fan, but he has been one of our better players this year. Amazing what he can accomplish when he isn't falling down every 2 seconds.

#84 Snake Doctor

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

I have to admit he's proved me wrong. Resign him if he will take a manageable deal.

He looks different this year finally playing with a real playmaker. 27 years old so he's just entering his prime years here. The next 3 or 4 years will probably be his career years. Keep the home grown talent and get rid of Booth Ballard.


Agreed
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#85 CanYouNuck?

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

So you suggest having a line 1, and lines 3a, 3b, 3c?

James Neal, Morrow, Malkin

Now thats a second line built for the playoffs....give your head a shake

#86 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

When Raymond struggled last season due to the extended rehab from his back injury, and then his hand or whatever that was that was bothering him later on, people really ripped on the guy and showed no mercy, I didn't much care for it. What we are seeing this year is the real Mason Raymond, healthy and a very good second-line guy, terrific two-way player, providing that essential secondary scoring. Same as he was before he got hurt, and as I cast my mind back, I recall that, at least to my eye, he was our most effective forward in the Finals against Boston before he got hurt. If he can be fit in under the low cap next season, he is definitely a keeper. If not, it would be a big loss.

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#87 Merci

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:14 PM

if Gillis can pull off a Luongo + Raymond deal I think we have to do it. Raymond has always been streaky and if this is the chance to get a tougher 2nd line winger back we have to do it.

Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#88 Merci

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:16 PM

Luongo
Raymond
Schroeder



Matthias
Goc
Gudbranson


Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Hansen
Matthias Goc Kassian
Higgins Lapierre Ballard

Hamhuis Tanev
Garrison Bieksa
Edler Gudbranson
Ballard

Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#89 schneider

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:18 PM

lol raymond or steve ott? obviously raymond. we'd be doing absolutely horribly without him right now.

#90 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:34 PM

I want the Speed line to keep it up in the playoffs so badly. They'd be a lock for our third line (once everyone's healthy), which would FINALLY give some stability to our lineup. As much as I love Higgins and want him to stay, I think him and Booth are our only forwards that are taking up spots that could be better filled by someone else.




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