Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* * * * - 1 votes

Article on Sportsnet.ca "Canucks Aren't Good Enough Anymore"

Discussion

  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#31 Specter's Vengeance

Specter's Vengeance

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 241 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 13

Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM

Sedin Sedin Kassian
Raymond Kesler Burrows
Higgins Roy Hansen
Booth Lappy Weise
- Sestito

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Tanev
Garrison Corrado
- Ballard Alberts

Schneider
Luongo

Call me crazy and in denial but this is as deep a team as we ever had. In fact this team is even deeper than the 2011 cup run team. So what's the problem? Coaching. They are failing to bring the best out of the players and are simply continuing to do something that once brought them success but has long since been figured out (the drop pass on pp is one good example)

Problem with Sedins is that they are still trying to rely on their cycle game when they should work on more direct offensive zone tactics like shoot rebound or straight driving to the net. Crosby was said to be more of a passer than shooter, so he worked on his shot and scored 50+ goals; then he was said to be no good in face offs and he worked on that and is now one of the most dominant face off man in the league. Meanwhile Sedins have been bashed for years to rely too much on cycle game with no shot and yet they continue to do it year in and year out. If they don't get that shot of theirs going, and believe me, they have good shots, they will not find playoff success because there isn't simply enough room for them to cycle in the playoffs!

Bring in a new coaching staff, show them what they can do with their shot and they are still able to produce, I guarantee. It is extremely hard to find top 2C's in this league( Leafs and Flames still looking for that elusive top centean after so many years) and so dumping Daniel and especially Henrik will be the biggest mistake we will ever make, well... At least one of the biggest mistakes we will ever make


Ok. You're crazy. And in denial... This team is so far phuhck its ridiculous. Complacency = lack of effort. Lack of effort = first round exit 2 years in a row. Just because you have great players, doesnt mean an instant winner in the playoffs. Some players showed up. Others havent and seem like they never will. This team needs to dismantle and try again. Starting from management and outwards.

Edited by Rex "Power" Colt, 06 May 2013 - 08:25 AM.

  • 0

22481-mortal-kombat-x.jpg


#32 WindChaser

WindChaser

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • Joined: 18-October 09

Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:32 AM

The names might be the same, but they are not the same guys as 2 years ago.


Actually, I think the problem is that they're still the same guys. Sedins and Burrows are still trying to do their same thing as two years ago, Kesler still tries to do everything by himself, Raymond still tries to skate in and falls, while Higgins and Hansen still needs a good center for them to be successful (Hansen played with Malhotra when he was at his best and Higgins, well we all saw glimpses of what he can do when he has a pass first center like Roy) and Lappy never really learned how to play a more shutdown role and so he's still our 4th line center instead of moving up to third

Bieksa and Edler are still the same defense prone Dman on our roster but if they have a defensive minded partner like Hamhuis and Tanev then they still do wonders because both Bieksa and Edler like to jump in and join the rush instead of thinking defense first like Hamhuis and Tanev

Part of blame is on players, for sure, but more blame has to be put on the coaching staff because they have failed to bring the best out of our players by not utilizing them properly and not putting in the correct lines and let them develop chemistry with each other. Like I said, call me denial all you want, but bring in another coach who will actually use our players properly and I can still see success with this group. Unlike the situation in Detroit or Nashville, our problem is actually with the coaching staff

Just look at what Hitchcock, Carlyle, Bruce Bordeau(sp? The ducks coach), Terrien, Oates, or even the new Blue Jackets head coach has done to their teams, and they didn't really have any major roster changes
  • 0

#33 WindChaser

WindChaser

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • Joined: 18-October 09

Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:39 AM

Ok. You're crazy. And in denial... This team is so far phuhck its ridiculous. Complacency = lack of effort. Lack of effort = first round exit 2 years in a row. Just because you have great players, doesnt mean an instant winner in the playoffs. Some players showed up. Others havent and seem like they never will. This team needs to dismantle and try again. Starting from management and outwards.


And whose job is it to make sure these players try their best and put in maximum effort night in and night out? If players are failing to do that is it not the coach's job to remind them if what they need to do?

How many people have written Ovechkin off in the last year and a half before he went on a rampage and scored something like 28 goals in 24 games or something? How many people said the Leafs need to find that 1C before they are being taken seriously? How many people said the big 3 in Anaheim is history? My point is, we have players with the skill and talent, this was extremely lacking in our previous years and thus we shouldn't give up on them too soon... They're not exactly pass their primes yet.., what we truly lack is a coach that can let these players put their skills to maximum use, polish up their games and even develop new dimensions to their games

Edited by WindChaser, 06 May 2013 - 08:40 AM.

  • 0

#34 Darth Kane

Darth Kane

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,699 posts
  • Joined: 07-June 09

Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:39 AM

I think one of the biggest problems for the Canucks is coaching, they have plenty of talent at all positions. AV plays his favourites so much that they have less motivation. Having a healthy competition for ice time is absolutely necessary. Last year Chicago had the same problem, but this year the coach has been giving out ice time based on merit and it's worked out much better.

Replace AV and trade Schneider, that's the plan for the summer (IMO).
  • 0

#35 spliced

spliced

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,247 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 03

Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

MARK SPECTOR saying something negative about the Canucks? Well I for one am shocked.
  • 0

#36 Dogbyte

Dogbyte

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,750 posts
  • Joined: 31-March 07

Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:05 AM

Sedin Sedin Kassian
Raymond Kesler Burrows
Higgins Roy Hansen
Booth Lappy Weise
- Sestito

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Tanev
Garrison Corrado
- Ballard Alberts

Schneider
Luongo

Call me crazy and in denial but this is as deep a team as we ever had. In fact this team is even deeper than the 2011 cup run team. So what's the problem? Coaching. They are failing to bring the best out of the players and are simply continuing to do something that once brought them success but has long since been figured out (the drop pass on pp is one good example)

Problem with Sedins is that they are still trying to rely on their cycle game when they should work on more direct offensive zone tactics like shoot rebound or straight driving to the net. Crosby was said to be more of a passer than shooter, so he worked on his shot and scored 50+ goals; then he was said to be no good in face offs and he worked on that and is now one of the most dominant face off man in the league. Meanwhile Sedins have been bashed for years to rely too much on cycle game with no shot and yet they continue to do it year in and year out. If they don't get that shot of theirs going, and believe me, they have good shots, they will not find playoff success because there isn't simply enough room for them to cycle in the playoffs!

Bring in a new coaching staff, show them what they can do with their shot and they are still able to produce, I guarantee. It is extremely hard to find top 2C's in this league( Leafs and Flames still looking for that elusive top centean after so many years) and so dumping Daniel and especially Henrik will be the biggest mistake we will ever make, well... At least one of the biggest mistakes we will ever make


I agree 100%. It's obvious to me that AV takes a zero coaching approach with these guys. At some point AV has to tell them, "look, all the passing, the cycling, the no defence, it's not working. We need you guys to act like regular hockey players, bring the puck into the zone create a little space and get a shot on net while the other two players crash the net and look for a rebound". All players simplify their games when it is not working as desired. Not the Sedins though because no one holds them accountable for anything.
  • 0

Canuckslogo160x160.jpg


#37 riffraff

riffraff

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,445 posts
  • Joined: 10-April 07

Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:30 AM

Was this written last February?
  • 0
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#38 DeNiro

DeNiro

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,304 posts
  • Joined: 22-April 08

Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:48 AM

Shame on anyone for bashing the Sedins. Without them this team doesn't even make the playoffs.

It's time for people to face the facts that we're a team that relies on great goaltending and 1 and a half lines.

If the goaltending isn't stellar the team loses. If the Sedins don't score, the team loses. You can't put that much expectation on 3 players. Good teams don't win that way.

If anyone is to blame it's MG and AV. MG for completely gutting the supporting cast of this team and ruining the best chemistry the Sedins have had with a D-man in their careers. And AV for being completely incapable of motivating this team and getting them on the same page.
  • 2

Posted Image


"Dream until the dream come true"


#39 FireGillis

FireGillis

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,404 posts
  • Joined: 28-June 06

Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:31 AM

Sad, but true. Our elite status window lasted what 2-3 years? We blew our chance in 2011 to win our cup. :( Now our window is closed and we'll go back to being a middling playoff team, instead of an elite cup contender. Maybe in 15 years our window will open up again. :(

Edited by Fire AV, 06 May 2013 - 10:32 AM.

  • 0

Proud member of 2015 tank nation! :towel:(Tank train has derailed!! Go Lack!! :emot-parrot: )


#40 sting

sting

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,009 posts
  • Joined: 09-November 11

Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:25 AM

Shame on anyone for bashing the Sedins. Without them this team doesn't even make the playoffs.

It's time for people to face the facts that we're a team that relies on great goaltending and 1 and a half lines.

If the goaltending isn't stellar the team loses. If the Sedins don't score, the team loses. You can't put that much expectation on 3 players. Good teams don't win that way.

If anyone is to blame it's MG and AV. MG for completely gutting the supporting cast of this team and ruining the best chemistry the Sedins have had with a D-man in their careers. And AV for being completely incapable of motivating this team and getting them on the same page.


Well said. The twins have lost a step, but between the Sedin's, Kesler and Luongo they made this team elite for a brief period in history.
The run to the cup final was all theirs, Henrik bad back and all quarterbacked the offence, Kesler stepped up huge negating other teams top centers and what can you say about the Nashville series. Luongo was erratic at times brilliant mostly.
Then....they had a supporting cast ,a system that they bought into, clearly defined roles.
Since then....the team was gutted. coaching become stale an unable to adapt. PP, break out, Line mates and roles.... AV lost his way and MG lost his mind...Ehrhoff left for cash, Samuelsson and Raymond never came back as support scoring, Salo got to old and Malhotra's face offs and defensive abilities were never replaced (even when they new he wasn't coming back). Torres a huge factor and physical presence they let walk. Luongo ousted and unserimoniously dragged through an embarrassing situation. No wonder Hodgson and Justin Schultz wanted to go elsewhere they could have been the youth and offence this team so dearly needed but our idiot coach and management could not offer playing time.
I liked AV in many ways and Gillis is a smart man but somehow these 2 were on a different MO since the finals and both have failed miserably.
The Sedin's (2 of Sweden's top 6) Kesler (team USA 1C) and Luongo (goalie of the greatest hockey nation) they poured their hearts into this team they came so close they don't deserve to be ripped by idiot fans who can't understand all the factors that lead to success at the highest levels.
  • 0

#41 etsen3

etsen3

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,032 posts
  • Joined: 02-July 10

Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:39 PM

The article has a lot of truth. The window is shutting quickly on this group as is, unless Gillis makes some big changes this summer. It's not time for a full rebuild just yet, but if Gillis wants to the whole "Detroit thing", he needs to give the team a makeover with some more youth. Shift roles around and don't rely on the Sedins as much.
  • 0

#42 falcon45ca

falcon45ca

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Joined: 08-February 10

Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:48 PM

They are already taking a salary cut with 6.2 mil. IMO with the cap comming down, their next contract, should be in the 5.5-5.75 mil per range.

They should be traded while they still have some value, otherwise we run a serious risk of becoming the next Calgary Flames...Iggy's only three years older than the twins.
  • 0

#43 zejono

zejono

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 601 posts
  • Joined: 22-October 10

Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:50 PM

Shame on anyone for bashing the Sedins. Without them this team doesn't even make the playoffs.

It's time for people to face the facts that we're a team that relies on great goaltending and 1 and a half lines.

If the goaltending isn't stellar the team loses. If the Sedins don't score, the team loses. You can't put that much expectation on 3 players. Good teams don't win that way.

If anyone is to blame it's MG and AV. MG for completely gutting the supporting cast of this team and ruining the best chemistry the Sedins have had with a D-man in their careers. And AV for being completely incapable of motivating this team and getting them on the same page.


obviously Sedins are great in season. They destroy everyone. Just don't expect to win a cup though.
  • 0

#44 Quoted

Quoted

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,813 posts
  • Joined: 17-September 07

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:01 PM

“We’re too a good a team for that,” said Daniel Sedin.

Kelser: "We derved a better result" after game two.

I wish they would stop saying crap like this. They didn't "deserve" to win as they didn't score enough and sorry Daniel, if you are too good for something, it wouldn't have happended. Please admit that you're simply not that good of a team anymore.
  • 0

#45 Vansicle

Vansicle

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,610 posts
  • Joined: 24-August 09

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

And whose job is it to make sure these players try their best and put in maximum effort night in and night out? If players are failing to do that is it not the coach's job to remind them if what they need to do?

How many people have written Ovechkin off in the last year and a half before he went on a rampage and scored something like 28 goals in 24 games or something? How many people said the Leafs need to find that 1C before they are being taken seriously? How many people said the big 3 in Anaheim is history? My point is, we have players with the skill and talent, this was extremely lacking in our previous years and thus we shouldn't give up on them too soon... They're not exactly pass their primes yet.., what we truly lack is a coach that can let these players put their skills to maximum use, polish up their games and even develop new dimensions to their games

This.
What needs to happen first is to find the right coach for the core of this team. Next, shed any player that does not serve to execute this new coach's system. Not a rebuild, but a refurbish, using the parts that are still solid, culling the parts that don't fit the roll.
If MG thinks he can skate by another season with the same approach he ought to be canned. It's time for some actual bold, possibly unpopular moves.

Edited by Vansicle, 06 May 2013 - 02:08 PM.

  • 0

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#46 Quoted

Quoted

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,813 posts
  • Joined: 17-September 07

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:11 PM

This.
What needs to happen first is to find the right coach for the core of this team. Next, shed any player that does not serve to execute this new coach's system. Not a rebuild, but a refurbish, using the parts that are still solid, culling the parts that don't fit the roll.
If MG thinks he can skate by another season with the same approach he ought to be canned. It's time for some actual bold, possibly unpopular moves.


It seems sometimes that there is a disconnect between the skill set of the players MG has put together and the way AV wants to coach the team (offence first vs. defence first).
  • 0

#47 vcrguy

vcrguy

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 733 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 13

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:11 PM

LOL.
Sometimes i wonder why are there so many people here who dont understand any hockey. Glorified 2nd liners ? Lol. if so, then practically everyone apart from Sid, Ovie, Malkin and Stamkos are 'glorified 2nd liners'

The fact that the Sedins are fit as a fiddle and are as good offensively and consistent as anyone in the last 5-10 years barring the top 5 superstars, should be enough to merit a salary of 5.5-5.75 mil,nevermind the 6+ mil that plenty of forwards worse than the Sedins make.


The Sedins are not second line players. They've won Hart and Art Ross trophies and 2nd line players don't do that.Their only problem (and its hard to say this is a problem) is they always play at the top of their game so they can't turn it up in the playoffs.They're already taking a discount to stay here.Our problem is we have spent way too much on defensemen and goalies and don't have the $ to go get someone who can put the puck in the net.
  • 0

#48 Vansicle

Vansicle

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,610 posts
  • Joined: 24-August 09

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:16 PM

I agree 100%. It's obvious to me that AV takes a zero coaching approach with these guys. At some point AV has to tell them, "look, all the passing, the cycling, the no defence, it's not working. We need you guys to act like regular hockey players, bring the puck into the zone create a little space and get a shot on net while the other two players crash the net and look for a rebound". All players simplify their games when it is not working as desired. Not the Sedins though because no one holds them accountable for anything.

I was watching really closely the last two games at the action around the boards/net and noticed that when they battle for possession, they go all three forwards in, which leaves no-one in the slot or crease to take a pass after the puck is won. No-one except a pinching d-man, that is. And we all know how that ends.
It seems like someone needs to let the forwards know that it's ok to go to the net, or the slot, and that it's also ok to just fling the puck at the net too, if anyone is even remotely close to hammer in a rebound, or reload the point. It just pisses me off watching the endless passing/cycling/looking for the perfect open shot which usually ends in a shot from the point through a see of kneecaps.
A more offensive minded head coach is in order.
  • 0

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#49 Neversummer

Neversummer

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,419 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 10

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:17 PM

Don't even have to read article to say that it is probably 98% true.
  • 0





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.