nuck luck Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm happy to see that some members have finally started to question Benning/Linden instead of granting him unwarranted/unfathomable support for accomplishing nil... mediocrity. I know that both these guys are well thought of and have a long tenure in professional hockey, but they are still rookies in their new positions...I think it's better to see some results before boarding their "hooray" train. I was never happy with MG's firing and I think it was too early, considering the main person at fault was the owners for last years debacle....However, I did support Benning/Linden (cautiously) and wanted to give them a chance because they deserved that at the very least. I doubt anyone noticed, but I haven't posted on CDC much cause I really didn't have anything positive to say and, like I mentioned above, I wanted to give the new brass a chance... One thing I know for certain... and any Canuck fan should as well, is that MG can definitely have a vision and has shown proven that he knows what steps are necessary to obtain it. In quick fashion, he turned the Canucks around when he arrived, turned us into a powerhouse in the NHL and got us to the finals... no ifs, ands or buts here. FACT! MG did a great job and should be praised for what he's accomplished. To the many posters here who think they're being witty with snide derogatory comments ending with **cough (Gillis)**, you have no clue. I really feel that GMMG was fired prematurely and wished he was given at least 1 more year. At least until after the draft.... Back to Benning/Linden. After a new coach, the draft, a buyout, trades and FA signings.... Here's my breakdown and the way I see things thus far. Coach I like the hiring. However, I think these two put their eggs in one basket and wanted to wait on one guy since the beginning.... if WD decided to decline, we would be up sh!t creek without a paddle. I would have been just as happy with one or two other coaches that were available at the time... it was a huge gamble or B & L are far too indecisive. I just wish the owners would have let MG pick the coach last year... The Draft 6th, I like the first pick. I don't mind going for a player with big potential that at worst....might fall to the 3rd line, he's a local boy so that's also a bonus. A solid pick from what was available. However, some of the following picks afterwards are the ones I question... 24, Jared McCann - looks very promising and is a solid pick I think, for a team that need a 200 player with skills to center a line. But, this pick seems redundant to me since we have plenty of players like this as prospects already... and I'm pretty confident that a few of these prospects will play in the NHL. What we needed with this pick was somebody who has shown some potential to be an elite player with high-end skills....a boom or bust kinda guy, we need potential 1st line players. This is what our prospects are lacking....in my eyes, we have Shink (so happy he wasn't traded) and Jensen. Unless, B & L and have some secret plan to nab the 1st pick next year....I think we would be better off going for picks that have 1st line potential since we are loaded for the second line. 36, Thatcher Demco - Great goalie. Again....good pick for a team who is short on goalie prospects. We had an early pick in the second round and we use it to pick up ANOTHER goalie? We are up to our ears in great goalie prospects and I think this pick was wasted, now we're drowning and we only have options to throw a great prospect overboard. We got a great coach who is proven, but goalies take years and they are high-risk.... and isn't one player who needed surgery enough? 66, Nikita Tryamkin - Huge guy. If this pick turns out as planned than we made the steal of the draft... However, he was passed over twice and I don't think he was on too many GM's radar, couldn't we have picked him up a little later in the draft? I don't mind this pick but I think it was done too early... 126, 156 and 186 - a small D man with skills...but we have someone similar with higher potential (Subban). A huge C who had surgery and needs developing...but we have someone similar with Lain (minus the surgery). A huge D man...don't know much about the guy except that he's HUGE. I think the picks were OK....but only that. I would have preferred GMMG to make this years selection since he hit a homerun with it last year.... He had a vision and he was following through with it and might have picked up players that he envisioned we were lacking. Players with elite skills and potential... I thought that size & skill was already addressed when he picked up Kass, Lain, Bo, Gaunce, etc....and he would have been determined to address the combo of speed & elite skills this year (yes, we have JV now....but we still come up short in this area). Buyout From my point of view.... we had a fast player with size that played great with Kass on the 3rd! Sure, he was paid too much, but with the cap space that we had have had (now after Miller) he would have been fine for another year... Instead, we bought him out and replaced Booth with some players that we picked up trading a 2nd round pick for? Or was it to bring in Miller? (hate this signing). Why not just keep Booth... have him play with Kass and let Kass build some more confidence with Booth and sign him next year at a reasonable price? This way, we could have kept the pick that we traded and used it for the promising Dman that the Kings picked up....or any other players with potential? Leaving us with a promising big 3rd line pairing with past chemistry and a great prospect D man... Instead, we replaced Booth with a player we picked up in a trade.... and have no prospects to show for it? The 50th pick seems a little high to me seeing how Gagne was worth a 6th round pick? Maybe it's not the 50th pick to replace Booth but... Couldn't we have picked up a guy in FA? Don't like this move at all....not my money I know. Booth was fine for the 3rd line....we had the cap space so why buy him out? We seem to be back-logging ourselves with middle-line players... Trades I am on the fence with the trades.... nothing great and nothing bad. Just ho-hum with them... It seems that B & L were a little hasty though....trying to make their mark on this team with some big moves and focusing on that alone. This is not always a good thing... if done without perspective. Yes, the NM or NT clauses effected them, but for any person in the "KNOW"... and you only need to google search to be in the "KNOW", the Canucks were on par with most teams that had NT or NM clauses. I am absolutely against trading any high picks away for prospects/players who are gonna play on our second or 3rd lines! We are giving our current prospects no chance to actually play if we keep picking up similar players through trades of our valued picks in the draft... WE NEED TO FOCUS ON TOP LINE PLAYERS, FORWARDS OR DMEN. The ONE thing that I am absolutely positive about is that if GMMG made the exact same deals, CDC would be bytch'n and crying over every single one of them....Fact. I thought Garrison was worth much more than what we traded him for... RFA Signings Miller??? WTF! - do we need another distraction in net? And don't talk about mentoring Lack cause he doesn't like to mentor. For 3 years? WTF! - two years would have been ideal. 33 years old and ranked 22nd out of 43 goal tenders over the last 4 years....1st round loss to Chicago last year playing for St. Louis. At 6 million per year? WTF! - 5 million cap per year would be acceptable for an aging goalie who underperformed....and/or who Lack outperformed. Cap space gone.... With an amended NM contract? WTF! - Was this really necessary to sign Miller and could we have negotiated a better contract instead of him giving us a list of only 5 teams? Maybe 10 or 15 teams? Maybe no clause? Did B & L not go through a similar scenario with Kesler this week? This was the first and only offer Miller saw? WTF! - Was this just a nostalgia thing for Benning? He is so adamant on signing Miller that he just thought he would offer him everything that Miller would have asked for? I don't think GMMG ever made a move like this with such haste and abandonment... Here's one for all you Gillis haters out there....I hope you don't blindly let this slide and make your immense disappointment known that your beloved MG replacements offered a NM contract to an aging player who is in decline. AND, I am a little concerned with B & L ability to negotiate a fair contract now... do these two know anything about lowballing on the first offer and negotiating to an agreeable settlement? Calgary got Hiller for 2 years at 9 million? I'd be ok with this... And to me it seems the Canucks needed to address the top 6 positions....goal scoring. At the moment, all the big names seemed to have signed elsewhere since our focus was on signing Miller. After all is said and done.... it is still too early to judge B & L up till now. I hope that they are not human and have some sort of super human powers at play that will transform this team into a power house in the next few years! From what I've witnessed so far... they make mistakes like the rest of us and let feelings/emotions get in the way of their decision making. And to me it seems the Canucks needed to address the top 6 positions....goal scoring. At the moment, all the big names seemed to have signed elsewhere since our focus was on signing a goalie... One area that I hope B & L are exceptional at is FA signings cause GMMG was boss.... if not, so far not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Benning is not new, I stopped reading when you were wrong there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Horvat Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 TC's opening post immediately reminded me of the type of people who call in to the TEAM 1040 to complain. Benning has done a great job in changing the culture and structure of this team in a very short period of time. No one knows how this team will perform come October, so for you to call Miller a distraction, and a bunch of the other claims you're making are completely unfounded. Gillis did some good things for this organization, made some key signings and drafted some great players for the future. He also set this team back 5-6 years in goaltending by trading TWO starting goalies away for peanuts which became a league-wide joke. Try going on other teams' message boards around the league to see what they think of Gillis and the Canucks then, and how they view this team now under the leadership of Benning and Linden. Complete night and day and these guys have only been on the job for three months or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm happy to see that some members have finally started to question Benning/Linden Stopped reading here Can't even imagine what sort of self-indulgent ("I know more about third round picks than our GM does") cynical trash follows it Lol @ people questioning the management of the team less than 24 hours into free agency, and months before the first game is to be played. Why didn't we sign Moulson and Niskanen with our ten million!?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzy Mahmood Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 My perspective: Coaching appointment = love it. 6th overall pick = love it. 24th overall pick = love it. 36th overall pick = love it. 66th overall pick = love it. Other picks = who knows. It's a crap shoot. Miller signing = love it. He's an excellent goalie. I am 100% behind Trevor Linden, Jim Benning and Willie Desjardins. 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 People need to realize that this team will not be built in a year, it's going to take several years with several mistakes being made along the way. Gillis did do a lot of great things when he first arrived and like a human being he made mistakes. There are no guarantees in life or business which is why I can forgive the mistakes Gillis made and the ones Linden and Benning will no doubt make. The reason Gillis is not here is because he he did not learn from those blunders. He kept giving out huge contracts with NTCs and let the goalie situation deteriorate, then he didn't supply enough offense when it was needed and didn't put enough emphasis on drafting until his final year. Mistakes are the stepping stones to success but that's assuming you learn from them and don't keep making them. At this point I'm happy with the changes that have been made by Linden and Benning but only time will tell if these changes actually make the team better. They have inherited a team that needs a rebuild/retool in a bad way but also needs to win in a bad way. Vancouver will never go through a full rebuild because the fans would not support, I don't care what anybody says if the team is losing on a regular basis then nobody is going to want to watch. One bad season with Torts proves this. Linden and Benning are going to do their best to make the team competive and keep the prospects stocked and as long as they stick to that then I'm supporting them. Not every move they make is going to turn out to be gold. Every GM in the league likely has deals or signings they wish they could undo but that's the nature of the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 My perspective: Coaching appointment = love it. 6th overall pick = love it. 24th overall pick = love it. 36th overall pick = love it. 66th overall pick = love it. Other picks = who knows. It's a crap shoot. Miller signing = love it. He's an excellent goalie. I am 100% behind Trevor Linden, Jim Benning and Willie Desjardins. 100%. In a nutshell. Pretty much this. I even thought the trades were really good. The only one that was questionable was the Jason garrison one, but if he had to go, he had to go. If Tryamkin is the best return we can get, while freeing up his cap space, ok so be it. I'm with management right now. Great jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck luck Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Benning is not new, I stopped reading when you were wrong there. Really? So what year did he GM the Canucks? Or any other NHL team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzy Mahmood Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 In a nutshell. Pretty much this. I even thought the trades were really good. The only one that was questionable was the Jason garrison one, but if he had to go, he had to go. If Tryamkin is the best return we can get, while freeing up his cap space, ok so be it. I'm with management right now. Great jobs I forgot the trades! Loved the Kesler return, Bonino was supposedly untouchable, Sbisa is a great replacement for Garrison, and McCann is supposed to be a Kesler clone. Really liked it. Glad Garrison went. We needed the cap space, and to lose a NTC from the D. Dorsett and Vey are great pickups, both know Big Willie already. Really can't wait to see Dorsett go up against the SoCal teams. GMJB is not done yet. Just wait. There is a signing or a trade coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Soldier Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm happy to see that some members have finally started to question Benning/Linden instead of granting him unwarranted/unfathomable support for accomplishing nil... mediocrity. I know that both these guys are well thought of and have a long tenure in professional hockey, but they are still rookies in their new positions...I think it's better to see some results before boarding their "hooray" train. Do you perceive time differently than normal people? It's the first day of free agency and you're talking about results months before the first training camp. Go outside and get some sun, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm happy to see that some members have finally started to question Benning/Linden instead of granting him unwarranted/unfathomable support for accomplishing nil... mediocrity. I know that both these guys are well thought of and have a long tenure in professional hockey, but they are still rookies in their new positions...I think it's better to see some results before boarding their "hooray" train. I was never happy with MG's firing and I think it was too early, considering the main person at fault was the owners for last years debacle....However, I did support Benning/Linden (cautiously) and wanted to give them a chance because they deserved that at the very least. I doubt anyone noticed, but I haven't posted on CDC much cause I really didn't have anything positive to say and, like I mentioned above, I wanted to give the new brass a chance... One thing I know for certain... and any Canuck fan should as well, is that MG can definitely have a vision and has shown proven that he knows what steps are necessary to obtain it. In quick fashion, he turned the Canucks around when he arrived, turned us into a powerhouse in the NHL and got us to the finals... no ifs, ands or buts here. FACT! MG did a great job and should be praised for what he's accomplished. To the many posters here who think they're being witty with snide derogatory comments ending with **cough (Gillis)**, you have no clue. I really feel that GMMG was fired prematurely and wished he was given at least 1 more year. At least until after the draft.... Back to Benning/Linden. After a new coach, the draft, a buyout, trades and FA signings.... Here's my breakdown and the way I see things thus far. Coach I like the hiring. However, I think these two put their eggs in one basket and wanted to wait on one guy since the beginning.... if WD decided to decline, we would be up sh!t creek without a paddle. I would have been just as happy with one or two other coaches that were available at the time... it was a huge gamble or B & L are far too indecisive. I just wish the owners would have let MG pick the coach last year... The Draft 6th, I like the first pick. I don't mind going for a player with big potential that at worst....might fall to the 3rd line, he's a local boy so that's also a bonus. A solid pick from what was available. However, some of the following picks afterwards are the ones I question... 24, Jared McCann - looks very promising and is a solid pick I think, for a team that need a 200 player with skills to center a line. But, this pick seems redundant to me since we have plenty of players like this as prospects already... and I'm pretty confident that a few of these prospects will play in the NHL. What we needed with this pick was somebody who has shown some potential to be an elite player with high-end skills....a boom or bust kinda guy, we need potential 1st line players. This is what our prospects are lacking....in my eyes, we have Shink (so happy he wasn't traded) and Jensen. Unless, B & L and have some secret plan to nab the 1st pick next year....I think we would be better off going for picks that have 1st line potential since we are loaded for the second line. 36, Thatcher Demco - Great goalie. Again....good pick for a team who is short on goalie prospects. We had an early pick in the second round and we use it to pick up ANOTHER goalie? We are up to our ears in great goalie prospects and I think this pick was wasted, now we're drowning and we only have options to throw a great prospect overboard. We got a great coach who is proven, but goalies take years and they are high-risk.... and isn't one player who needed surgery enough? 66, Nikita Tryamkin - Huge guy. If this pick turns out as planned than we made the steal of the draft... However, he was passed over twice and I don't think he was on too many GM's radar, couldn't we have picked him up a little later in the draft? I don't mind this pick but I think it was done too early... 126, 156 and 186 - a small D man with skills...but we have someone similar with higher potential (Subban). A huge C who had surgery and needs developing...but we have someone similar with Lain (minus the surgery). A huge D man...don't know much about the guy except that he's HUGE. I think the picks were OK....but only that. I would have preferred GMMG to make this years selection since he hit a homerun with it last year.... He had a vision and he was following through with it and might have picked up players that he envisioned we were lacking. Players with elite skills and potential... I thought that size & skill was already addressed when he picked up Kass, Lain, Bo, Gaunce, etc....and he would have been determined to address the combo of speed & elite skills this year (yes, we have JV now....but we still come up short in this area). Buyout From my point of view.... we had a fast player with size that played great with Kass on the 3rd! Sure, he was paid too much, but with the cap space that we had have had (now after Miller) he would have been fine for another year... Instead, we bought him out and replaced Booth with some players that we picked up trading a 2nd round pick for? Or was it to bring in Miller? (hate this signing). Why not just keep Booth... have him play with Kass and let Kass build some more confidence with Booth and sign him next year at a reasonable price? This way, we could have kept the pick that we traded and used it for the promising Dman that the Kings picked up....or any other players with potential? Leaving us with a promising big 3rd line pairing with past chemistry and a great prospect D man... Instead, we replaced Booth with a player we picked up in a trade.... and have no prospects to show for it? The 50th pick seems a little high to me seeing how Gagne was worth a 6th round pick? Maybe it's not the 50th pick to replace Booth but... Couldn't we have picked up a guy in FA? Don't like this move at all....not my money I know. Booth was fine for the 3rd line....we had the cap space so why buy him out? We seem to be back-logging ourselves with middle-line players... Trades I am on the fence with the trades.... nothing great and nothing bad. Just ho-hum with them... It seems that B & L were a little hasty though....trying to make their mark on this team with some big moves and focusing on that alone. This is not always a good thing... if done without perspective. Yes, the NM or NT clauses effected them, but for any person in the "KNOW"... and you only need to google search to be in the "KNOW", the Canucks were on par with most teams that had NT or NM clauses. I am absolutely against trading any high picks away for prospects/players who are gonna play on our second or 3rd lines! We are giving our current prospects no chance to actually play if we keep picking up similar players through trades of our valued picks in the draft... WE NEED TO FOCUS ON TOP LINE PLAYERS, FORWARDS OR DMEN. The ONE thing that I am absolutely positive about is that if GMMG made the exact same deals, CDC would be bytch'n and crying over every single one of them....Fact. I thought Garrison was worth much more than what we traded him for... RFA Signings Miller??? WTF! - do we need another distraction in net? And don't talk about mentoring Lack cause he doesn't like to mentor. For 3 years? WTF! - two years would have been ideal. 33 years old and ranked 22nd out of 43 goal tenders over the last 4 years....1st round loss to Chicago last year playing for St. Louis. At 6 million per year? WTF! - 5 million cap per year would be acceptable for an aging goalie who underperformed....and/or who Lack outperformed. Cap space gone.... With an amended NM contract? WTF! - Was this really necessary to sign Miller and could we have negotiated a better contract instead of him giving us a list of only 5 teams? Maybe 10 or 15 teams? Maybe no clause? Did B & L not go through a similar scenario with Kesler this week? This was the first and only offer Miller saw? WTF! - Was this just a nostalgia thing for Benning? He is so adamant on signing Miller that he just thought he would offer him everything that Miller would have asked for? I don't think GMMG ever made a move like this with such haste and abandonment... Here's one for all you Gillis haters out there....I hope you don't blindly let this slide and make your immense disappointment known that your beloved MG replacements offered a NM contract to an aging player who is in decline. AND, I am a little concerned with B & L ability to negotiate a fair contract now... do these two know anything about lowballing on the first offer and negotiating to an agreeable settlement? Calgary got Hiller for 2 years at 9 million? I'd be ok with this... And to me it seems the Canucks needed to address the top 6 positions....goal scoring. At the moment, all the big names seemed to have signed elsewhere since our focus was on signing Miller. After all is said and done.... it is still too early to judge B & L up till now. I hope that they are not human and have some sort of super human powers at play that will transform this team into a power house in the next few years! From what I've witnessed so far... they make mistakes like the rest of us and let feelings/emotions get in the way of their decision making. And to me it seems the Canucks needed to address the top 6 positions....goal scoring. At the moment, all the big names seemed to have signed elsewhere since our focus was on signing a goalie... One area that I hope B & L are exceptional at is FA signings cause GMMG was boss.... if not, so far not so good. It's late. so I won't get into this, But I see you receiving a lot of flack for your post and want you to know you aren't alone in your observations. And also, that there is hard evidence to back up a lot of what you say, I'll weigh in these subjects in the days to come but right now I have more pressing things to deal with. Let me just add this for the time being: The pro-Benning crowd would have done well in the Nixon administration,their tendency to re-frame the facts to fit their version of events and counter attacking with insults would have made Old Dick proud. Or at least they would have made great Scientoligists. Don't worry though, these are the same people that used to end every post with "In Gilis we trust" Soon they will turn on Tre/Benn and list their current commendations as reasons to fire them. Also, the reason posters are replying to your points with "I stopped reading when" and trash talk is because they are unable to offer any well thought out counter arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 GMMG used his fire and passion to build an empire and it was that same fire that burnt it down. He got fired because he screwed up. Bad coach signing Too many ntc Allowed Luongo to be usurped twice by goalies who have worse stats than him. Allowed The Lu saga drag out for too long Traded away a great replacement for Lu and still lost Lu. Didn't fix the scoring issue. Traded away too much future for something that never came to be. Good? Ehrhoff Higgins Santorelli Hamhuis 2013 draft The only good thing Gillis did after 2011 was the 2013 draft and sign santorelli, which in reality, was a fluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Another wall of useless text by somebody who never worked a day in pro hockey, can't wait till the season starts and all these ignorant "I know better than the pros" posts can stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Roach Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 This guy talking like he got the inside scoop in the nhl. Why aren't you famous yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 That whole diatribe about Benning vs Gillis was just a smokescreen for the op`s bitchfest about Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I stopped reading when there was a wall of text without a "popular" star on the top right. That tells me everything I need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 We get it: You hate Miller and heart Gillis. The rest is well documented history that we all know. Tell cdc how much it sucks mid season if in fact it does. Bah! Humans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Benning > Gillis get over it, that ship is long gong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Really? So what year did he GM the Canucks? Or any other NHL team? Go to Wikipedia, look up Jim Benning and you will see how much more experience he has than your 'man crush' Gillis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 What's the point in drafting what you need now, or avoiding what you have, when these draft picks may not be NHL ready for 3 or 4 years? A lot can change in that time via trade, free agency, or a player breaking out. Even if the pick proves redundant down the road they become valuable trade pieces to obtain what you do need. Always draft best available. It's just that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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