[Discussion] Fire Benning! Prediction, Whatever, Rant,

[ForsbergTheGreat]

17 hours ago, Jam126 said:

I feel like we can make a St. Louis type offense where the scoring is balanced throughout all 4 lines. The 1st line isn't the strongest, but the rest can produce as much. That's pretty hard to do, but it is a suggestion if we don't get a 1C or if Horvat doesn't develop into a 80-90 Point 1C.

I think the years of needing a 80-90 point center are behind us.  There's only a handful of players each year that fall into that category.

 

I think an issue people have when they think of a #1 center is that we've been so blessed with Hank that people don't realize centers that produce over a ppg haven't been that common in the last few years. 

 

I think you really have to determine what type of centers there are in the league. 

 

There's the play making center that puts up points (80-90), Thornton, Backstrom, Sedin, and Giroux could probably fall into that category as well.  RNH will also likely fall into this category someday. These players don't seem to have much success in terms of playoffs, 

 

There's the all around offensive threat.  Crosby, McDavid, Seguin, Tavares. These are the rare breeds, that can score and play make.  Not that common though. 

 

Then there's the 65-75 point centers that have a strong two way game.  Players like Kopitar, Toews, and Bergeron fall into that category. These have become the most successful types of #1 centers. 

 

That's where most teams appear to be going in the future as well with Monohan, Barkov, Scheifele and even Matthews.  I would say that's where Horvat is heading as well. 

 

So in that case, I don't see the dying need to find a Henrik replacement, not if we currently have a player heading in the direction of the most successful centers.  The important part is to find a 2nd line center that can also put up 55+ points,  Getzlaf has Kesler,  Kopitar has Carter, Bergeron has Krejci.

 

One thing people also seem to forget is yes the Sedin's put up the most points on our team, but they also get the most offensive opportunity.  When they retire, it's not like all the players we have will remain at the same output when they are getting greater offensive opportunity.  Sometimes that opportunity is whats needed for a player to break out. 

[TheGuardian_]

SOOOoooo many mushrooms and employees.

 

Even with the hints and the obvious, you still don't get it, the opening post.

And some dare call me opinionated, sheesh.

 

READ, THINK AND LEARN.

[TheGuardian_]

The goalie equipment is getting SMALLER, SMALLER, so the average points per player should go up, scoring should go up overall in the league.

BUT,

You know for sure there will be posters, fans, management,.....that will be attributing additional scoring to team improvement rather than a league trend. A sales gimmick.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

SOOOoooo many mushrooms and employees.

 

Even with the hints and the obvious, you still don't get it, the opening post.

And some dare call me opinionated, sheesh.

 

READ, THINK AND LEARN.

[TheGuardian_]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 0:39 PM, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

It is all history, with a couple of names changed.

 

Mostly it is a lesson from last year and most posters here STILL don't get it!!!!

 

Just look at last year, talk about a brainwashed fan base, overly sensitive, overly protective, a giant lack of confidence, combined with a dependant need of denial.

 

Most can't even read what happened last year without ridiculing the content or author, talk about denial.

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

It is all history, with a couple of names changed.

 

Mostly it is a lesson from last year and most posters here STILL don't get it!!!!

 

Just look at last year, talk about a brainwashed fan base, overly sensitive, overly protective, a giant lack of confidence, combined with a dependant need of denial.

 

Most can't even read what happened last year without ridiculing the content or author, talk about denial.

 

 

Why fire JB though, when he's doing exactly what his boss (Aqulini) expects?  

[TheGuardian_]

Is he?

Which boss?

[oldnews]

Nice to have a minus to use on the minus-hunting OP - much obliged.

 

Don't need to read - just need to see "The Guardian" - the rest is utterly predictable.

 

Fun thread not to read.

 

Just do it like the LeafzZZZ!!!

[Knucks16]

It's not Bennings fault. for piss poor GMing, in the past decade. I think Benning is doing the best job he can do, considering with all the previous outrageous contracts gms gave out in the past... I think Benning aswell as the Canucks entire organization can learn from this..... I would put a cap for long term signings, 5 years. Even then that's  pretty risky considering cap space. Only a handful players deserve what they're worth.. I'm my opinion! The Canucks need to be very discipline when signing players. And need to understand what players are worth now and few years from now. If they can resolve this issue, which I think Benning and staff can utilize! I think we're gonna be a solid contender for years to come! No more relapses! Please!

[Hortankin]

Benning should run for president after we fire him. Save the world Benning!!!

[Hortankin]

Prospects before Benning (25 and under)

Horvat

Kassian

Shinkaruk

Gaunce

Grenier

Cassels

Corrado

Hutton

Rodin

 

Prospects since Benning

Demko

Boeser

Juolevi

Gudbranson

Virtanen

Tryamkin

Baertschi

Granlund

Etem

Brisebois

Pedan

Olsen

McKenzie

Gaudette

Lockwood

Stukel

Zhukenov

Jasek

 

But let's fire Benning for doing exactly as he said he would do. He said he will TRY (not one time did I hear him guarantee being a contender) to remain competitive while building through the draft and filling a certain age gap. Which part did he lie about? Because there is a lot of people saying he's constantly lying lol

 

 

 

[Baggins]

On 7/24/2016 at 2:54 PM, TheGuardian_ said:

instead of lying to the fans and saying management thought they were a competitive playoff team.

Can you provide a quote to back that statement up?

 

 

On 7/24/2016 at 2:54 PM, TheGuardian_ said:

One of the reason's to fire JB is because he delayed and didn't do what he should have in his first year, REBUILD
 

Funny thing, Benning has said from the time he was hired that the team was rebuilding. Maybe you need to clean out your ears and/or work on the reading skills. You really don't seem to get much right.

[TheGuardian_]

7 hours ago, Baggins said:

Can you provide a quote to back that statement up?

 

 

Funny thing, Benning has said from the time he was hired that the team was rebuilding. Maybe you need to clean out your ears and/or work on the reading skills. You really don't seem to get much right.

Let's see, you criticize me for not having my ears cleaned out or work on reading skills, but then ask me for the Linden quote? Perhaps you don't read or listen as much as you seem to be indicating.

 

FYI, the quote was from an interview Linden did at the end of the season where he admitted management didn't think they were going to make the playoffs at the start of the last season.

 

I am sure there is a Benning quote somewhere out there that says "we are rebuilding the team" rather than "we are rebuilding this age group" or "we need to rebuild the depth". But I can't find it

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Let's see, you criticize me for not having my ears cleaned out or work on reading skills, but then ask me for the Linden quote? Perhaps you don't read or listen as much as you seem to be indicating.

 

FYI, the quote was from an interview Linden did at the end of the season where he admitted management didn't think they were going to make the playoffs at the start of the last season.

Um, you didn't say make the playoffs, you said competitive playoff team. Saying compete for a playoff spot is very different from saying we're a competitive playoff team.

 

From the beginning he's maintained they want to compete for a playoff spot every year. That's their goal. Adding youth into the lineup means there's no guarantee that goal will in fact be reached. Having goal isn't a promise. Last year we were actually in the hunt until the injuries really started to pile up. A record number of rookies playing their first game as a result. Well that's what gutting the team and tanking looks like except, we didn't do it on purpose. That's not lying, that's just the reality of what can happen over the course of a season.

[JCM7]

On August 4, 2016 at 10:23 AM, TheGuardian_ said:

SOOOoooo many mushrooms and employees.

 

Even with the hints and the obvious, you still don't get it, the opening post.

And some dare call me opinionated, sheesh.

 

READ, THINK AND LEARN.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how smart would you say that you are?

 

You clearly feel like it's a 9 or 10, but you would never say that out loud (or in print) because it wouldn't be prudent.  You would probably commit to something like 8.  This would make you smarter than average but would still permit you a naive sense of false-modesty.

 

To me, your statements seem clear and obvious.  So much so in fact that no one would take them as being anything veiled or cryptic which would warrant an "interpretation" of any kind.  Perhaps I am misreading this and have some other deep seeded point which requires decoding.  In either case you come off as an arrogant moron.  People don't agree with you and furthermore don't enjoy the rantings of a condescending know it all.  It's a little bit funny that you don't get it.  

 

"READ, THINK AND LEARN."  Really?

 

BTW, the only full NMC is LE.  The other 3 mentioned are limited NTCs which are worlds away from the full NMCs that MG handed out like candy.  Of these deals:

 

Miller was a short term deal to bridge the gap for guys like Lack or Markstrom to develop.  Miller's body of work showed that he was a reliable choice for this job.  Giving him a longer term would have been a dangerous move, but that's not what JB did.

 

Tanev is young and will be a cornerstone for years to come.

 

Sutter will be 32 when his deal expires.  The thing about Sutter is that he isn't now (nor has he ever been) an offensive superstar.  He is an incredibly hard working, two-way center who is a good fit in the middle 6 of any team in the league.  He can chip in with some offense and he does all of the little things well.  Players like Sutter don't tend to burn bright for 3 or 4 years and then burn out quickly.  Though I feel like Sutter may have been overvalued slightly by JB, I agree with him in the sense that this is a very low-risk contract.

 

The bottom line is that NMC are for VERY special cases.  Limited NTCs, though they offer escape routes can still provide additional complications and should be reserved for low risk guys like Tanev and Sutter or short terms like Miller.

 

I'm not even going to go into the Eriksson / Burrows comparison because it is too ridiculous.  I am a huge Burrows fan but come on.

 

[JCM7]

On July 27, 2016 at 4:45 PM, kloubek said:

OP is out to lunch, imo. 

 

We are in a far, far better place now than we were before he became GM.  

 

We have young talent. We have depth. We have some physicality.  We have goaltending prospects again. We may not have a cup winning team yet, but we have a lot of complementary players and a solid bottom nine at minimum. 

 

I am seriously not a Benning fanboy. I think he could have done better with some of his trades. But to suggest he is doing it all wrong is just silly.  The bottom line is in the results, and he has done exactly what he needed to do in order to set us up for the future - both immediate and distant. 

 

My only worry is where we are going to get our top line from. Boeser may hit. He may not. Horvat may become a #1 centre. He may not. If one of those things happen, there is still work to do and I don't know where we are getting the assets to make that happen. If both hit, then getting 1 more player might be possible via free agency for the 2nd line, and Eriksson ends up on the first. If neither hit, we are in big trouble.  Especially once the Sedins retire, and even then, Sutter as our #2 centre is not good enough, in my opinion. 

 

But overall, he's done a good job.  Let's give credit where it is due, and let him finish his work. 

The guy that I'm most excited to watch is Baer.  I don't think most know how little opportunity he was actually given in Calgary and the impact that had on his career.  He had 28 points in 66 games (over 4 years) but even when he got into their lineup he wasn't typically put into offensive situations. He was very excited to get this chance with Vancouver and really wanted to succeed.  Once he started to loosen the grip and settle in playing with Bo he caught fire.

 

My bold prediction is that Baer will score 35 goals within the next 3 seasons.  If this happens he will be one of our top line wingers.

 

In regards to the 1C, Brendan Morrison wasn't a superstar and he centered the best line in the NHL.  He was a good two-way player with above average skating and hands, but he was no Henrik Sedin.

[kloubek]

6 hours ago, JCM7 said:

The guy that I'm most excited to watch is Baer.  I don't think most know how little opportunity he was actually given in Calgary and the impact that had on his career.  He had 28 points in 66 games (over 4 years) but even when he got into their lineup he wasn't typically put into offensive situations. He was very excited to get this chance with Vancouver and really wanted to succeed.  Once he started to loosen the grip and settle in playing with Bo he caught fire.

 

My bold prediction is that Baer will score 35 goals within the next 3 seasons.  If this happens he will be one of our top line wingers.

 

In regards to the 1C, Brendan Morrison wasn't a superstar and he centered the best line in the NHL.  He was a good two-way player with above average skating and hands, but he was no Henrik Sedin.

Strangely, I'm not particularly convinced about Baertschi.  Granted, he had a career year, but if you project his points per game from 2012 and 2013, he really hasn't improved his point totals at all over his career.  Considering he was allowed to play a greater role last season, I would have expected at least some sign of consistent improvement.  I will say his offense appears to be coming along, but perhaps at the detriment of the playmaking and defensive portion of his game.  In addition to that, his +/- was near the bottom of the entire team, which concerns me.  When you say 35 goals within the next 3 seasons, I imagine you don't mean spread out over those seasons but rather achieving 35 goals in one season, in as little as 3 years from now.  I hope you are right.

 

Personally, I'm most excited about seeing Tryamkin.  I just want to see the opposing teams get crushed.

 

As for the 1C, you're absolutely right.  If your linemates are NHL-leading stars, you can afford to merely be "good" and still put up reasonable numbers.  More recently, Burrows is a prime example of that as well.  I'm not sure we have the talent in the system to get two wingers of that kind of calibre though.  Boeser is our best chance, and if he doesn't hit we're pretty light in that regard.  Even if Horvat blows us away, we're still down at least one star winger to make a situation like that happen.

[TheGuardian_]

16 hours ago, JCM7 said:

On a scale from 1 to 10, how smart would you say that you are?

 

You clearly feel like it's a 9 or 10, but you would never say that out loud (or in print) because it wouldn't be prudent.  You would probably commit to something like 8.  This would make you smarter than average but would still permit you a naive sense of false-modesty.

With age comes wisdom, you grow older and get the right to complain full time. Besides it is not how smart you are, it's how you  use what you got. While this opening is a record of last year some poster's can take is as a prediction if that's they want to think, and they probably won't be far off

Quote

 

To me, your statements seem clear and obvious.  So much so in fact that no one would take them as being anything veiled or cryptic which would warrant an "interpretation" of any kind.  Perhaps I am misreading this and have some other deep seeded point which requires decoding.  In either case you come off as an arrogant moron.  People don't agree with you and furthermore don't enjoy the rantings of a condescending know it all.  It's a little bit funny that you don't get it.  

 

"READ, THINK AND LEARN."  Really?

As I stated there, it is what happened last year, a history lesson. No one needs to exceptionally bright to learn from the past, if that is what they want to do, unfortunately some just want to stick their heads in the sand and blindly follow whatever the media or the salesmen want them to believe. They don't think because all their thinking is done for them.

Quote

 

BTW, the only full NMC is LE.  The other 3 mentioned are limited NTCs which are worlds away from the full NMCs that MG handed out like candy.  Of these deals:

 

Miller was a short term deal to bridge the gap for guys like Lack or Markstrom to develop.  Miller's body of work showed that he was a reliable choice for this job.  Giving him a longer term would have been a dangerous move, but that's not what JB did.

 

Tanev is young and will be a cornerstone for years to come.

 

Sutter will be 32 when his deal expires.  The thing about Sutter is that he isn't now (nor has he ever been) an offensive superstar.  He is an incredibly hard working, two-way center who is a good fit in the middle 6 of any team in the league.  He can chip in with some offense and he does all of the little things well.  Players like Sutter don't tend to burn bright for 3 or 4 years and then burn out quickly.  Though I feel like Sutter may have been overvalued slightly by JB, I agree with him in the sense that this is a very low-risk contract.

The contracts are brought up for the very reason you state, most poster's credit Benning for such a great job BECAUSE he had to deal with "clause" contracts, as if they are so horrible, but Benning gave out more in a shorter amount of time, so is he handcuffed now? Won't these contracts inhibit his ability to do the job? Many poster's say they did before, but not now?

AND Eriksson's is worse than Luongo's could ever be, BECAUSE, it is a signing bonus contract. He can't be traded to another team that might want a larger cap hit than the salary UNLESS the Canucks pony up with the signing bonus money.

 

 

Quote

 

 

The bottom line is that NMC are for VERY special cases.  Limited NTCs, though they offer escape routes can still provide additional complications and should be reserved for low risk guys like Tanev and Sutter or short terms like Miller.

 

I'm not even going to go into the Eriksson / Burrows comparison because it is too ridiculous.  I am a huge Burrows fan but come on.

 

Many fans think Burrow's at 4.5 mil is bad, just wait to see Eriksson at 37 and being paid 6 million. You know he only has 28 more goals than Burrow's with a huge difference in PP time.

 

Eriksson is being paid more the next two years than Anze Kopitar, 8 million.

8 hours ago, kloubek said:

Personally, I'm most excited about seeing Tryamkin.  I just want to see the opposing teams get crushed.

 

As for the 1C, you're absolutely right.  If your linemates are NHL-leading stars, you can afford to merely be "good" and still put up reasonable numbers.  More recently, Burrows is a prime example of that as well.  I'm not sure we have the talent in the system to get two wingers of that kind of calibre though.  Boeser is our best chance, and if he doesn't hit we're pretty light in that regard.  Even if Horvat blows us away, we're still down at least one star winger to make a situation like that happen

Tryamkin, I think he is a keeper, but then I thought Forsling was gong to be a keeper, at least for the PP. I hope that doesn't make him expendable.

Not really impressed by Boeser in any of the tournaments he has been in so far, seems to be an up and down guy that depends upon his team mates for getting him the puck.

[Jam126]

3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

Eriksson is being paid more the next two years than Anze Kopitar, 8 million.

 

There's a difference between salary and SALARY CAP. Learn stuff before you say stuff.

 

Also, where did you get that information? Loui's salary is no where near Anze's. If you're talking salary cap than it's still less 6 million<8 million. Kopitar also has a long contract. 10 years.

[JCM7]

13 hours ago, kloubek said:

Strangely, I'm not particularly convinced about Baertschi.  Granted, he had a career year, but if you project his points per game from 2012 and 2013, he really hasn't improved his point totals at all over his career.  Considering he was allowed to play a greater role last season, I would have expected at least some sign of consistent improvement.  I will say his offense appears to be coming along, but perhaps at the detriment of the playmaking and defensive portion of his game.  In addition to that, his +/- was near the bottom of the entire team, which concerns me.  When you say 35 goals within the next 3 seasons, I imagine you don't mean spread out over those seasons but rather achieving 35 goals in one season, in as little as 3 years from now.  I hope you are right.

 

Personally, I'm most excited about seeing Tryamkin.  I just want to see the opposing teams get crushed.

 

As for the 1C, you're absolutely right.  If your linemates are NHL-leading stars, you can afford to merely be "good" and still put up reasonable numbers.  More recently, Burrows is a prime example of that as well.  I'm not sure we have the talent in the system to get two wingers of that kind of calibre though.  Boeser is our best chance, and if he doesn't hit we're pretty light in that regard.  Even if Horvat blows us away, we're still down at least one star winger to make a situation like that happen.

I hope I'm right about Baer too.  Lol.

I'm not so worried about the -16 on a team that had a goal differential of -52.  Markus Naslund was a -15 in his 23 year old season.  When the Canucks first picked up Naslund from Pittsburgh I watched him on TV a few times and was skeptical.  Then I went to a couple of games and thought man if this guy gains some confidence he's going to be the best player on this team.  I get the same feeling with Baer.  I admit, it is only a hunch and he has a long way to go, but as he started to gain confidence last year you could see that he wanted to be the guy with the puck.

 

Naslund scored 21 at 23 years old, 14 at 24, and then 36 at 25.  With the right line mates my gut tells me that Baer will be similar.  I could be way off the mark, but would it ever be great for the team if I am right.