[Discussion] Tanev to Philadelphia

[D-Money]

Problem with Philly is that they are almost all LD, so yeah, they could really use a guy like Tanev.

 

Flyers have a lot of solid prospects. Frost, Rubtstov, Sanheim, Allison, Myers, Vorobyov, Marody, Twarynski, Bunnaman, Laczynski... Lots of potentially interesting trade chips, should they be offering.

[Down by the River]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

They shared face-offs re handedness but Giroux played wing this season - Couturier was the C on their line.

This year, Giroux led his team in number of faceoffs taken. I get that he played on the wing with Couturier this year, but the idea that he is a winger and not a natural center is not really accurate.

 

 

[mll]

28 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

This year, Giroux led his team in number of faceoffs taken. I get that he played on the wing with Couturier this year, but the idea that he is a winger and not a natural center is not really accurate.

 

 

I know that but they were on the same line and it's Giroux that played wing this season.  Even in the playoffs when Couturier was injured Giroux stayed at wing.  He still took face-offs.  

 

Btw Giroux was a winger in juniors and was moved to C with the Flyers.

 

[coastal.view]

3 hours ago, bp79 said:

Sutter retained. Plus Tanev and a 2nd plus maybe a prospect like lind for Prov and their 1st is A deak\l Philly wins. But it clears up some more cap space plus gets us a solid one-dimensional offem\nmsic\ve dman. Plus clears another 6 -8 mill to make a splash in free agency.. Philly" window is closing fast. They need to make a deal that might piss off a few fans. But in the long run, make them a better team. Prety sure for what Tanev brings most gm"s would take a chance on him. Keep in mind  a new team might utilize him better 

you realize the canuck team was a defensive mess last season

gave up around 40 goals more then the previous season (and they were  lousy then as well)

yet you wish to propose gutting what little d the team had

by trading a solid 2 way centre and best defensive dman for no immediate help

 

so i guess the goals against will get worse by another 40 goals against

sure is gonna be a crappy fun team to watch next season i guess

gonna really build the morale and confidence of all those new incoming young players

all of who stll need to work on the defensive part of their games to become solid pros

it seems to be a weakness in every young player's game

 

well maybe bo can play 40 minutes a game to help out

[bp79]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

Is the Philly defense really that bad?  They were in the playoffs, I know, but as I recall, during the season they were mid-pack and their goaltending wasn't doing them any favours.

I'm really not interested in giving up our only true shutdown guy in return for another forward; a position we are already going to have a glut of in short order.

 

If anything, I'd like to get one of their more offensive defensemen in return.  Do a trade around Provorov or Gostisbehere.  Obviously we'd have to add.

Agreed. Sutter seems to be a guy Hextas\all tak\lked about as the type of guy he want's. So why Not Tanev Sutter plus our first next year top 14 protected. For Philli"ys 14th pic Prov and a pick. We could also give the Flyers Stecher or a pick next year to compensate if Tanev misses more than 15 games. If they take stech and Tanev misses less then 15 games then we get some type of compensation. 2shut down D and IMO one of the most underrated players ever to wear a Nucks jersey in Sutter, will make Philly a force. Id even be willing to take on a cap dump for a second and 3rd next year. 

 

So I guess the deal would break down Sutter 1.5 retained plus Stech. For the 14th pick

Tanev next years 1st top 14 protected and a 3rd next year which turns into a 2nd in 2019 if we defer the first. If not the 3rd is in 2020 If adding a guy like Leipsic Baer was a must I would consider it.  Especially if JB decides he really likes Wahlstrom at 8 after we take one i\f Hughes or Bovqist.  Deciding to take on Seabrooks contract. 

 

Maybe Eagle waives at the TDL knowing he will be welcome back the following summer He should get us a first easy. Especo\ially if he plays kij=ke he did last season

 

My only question. Especially adding Baer what else would it take to get the 19th as well> Tanev Stech Sutter Baer a protected 1st plus a 2nd. seems like getting both picks isn't out of the realm of possibility.. Would adding this year second seal the deal? Keeping in mind we would have 3 picks in the top 19 maybe 4 if we bail out Chicago.

 

 

[bp79]

6 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

you realize the canuck team was a defensive mess last season

gave up around 40 goals more then the previous season (and they were  lousy then as well)

yet you wish to propose gutting what little d the team had

by trading a solid 2 way centre and best defensive dman for no immediate help

 

so i guess the goals against will get worse by another 40 goals against

sure is gonna be a crappy fun team to watch next season i guess

gonna really build the morale and confidence of all those new incoming young players

all of who stll need to work on the defensive part of their games to become solid pros

it seems to be a weakness in every young player's game

 

well maybe bo can play 40 minutes a game to help out

Well,

prov will help. Stech scored zero goals last year. Ya big loss there. As much as I like Sutter he can be replaced internally while saving 4 mill towards free agency.

 

I also said we could possibly add on Seabrooks contract or go after Green or Carlson.

I think every post you write is so full of negative comments it's quite sad.

 

Oh BTW Tanev and Stech combined for 6 goals last year.

 

you telling me prov won't triple that? p;luis adding Hughes and maybe one of the UFAS?

 

You realize the Canucks set a record for most man games lost right?

 You think that might of had something to do with the goal difference?

 

Edler Hughes OJ Pouliot Prov Guddy Zotto or a UFA  is miles better than anything we had last year.

 

But since it seems you like to disagree most of the time. I will assume you will do the same.

 

 

[coastal.view]

1 minute ago, bp79 said:

Well,

prov will help. Stech scored zero goals last year. Ya big loss there. As much as I like Sutter he can be replaced internally while saving 4 mill towards free agency.

 

I also said we could possibly add on Seabrooks contract or go after Green or Carlson.

I think every post you write is so full of negative comments it's quite sad.

 

Oh BTW Tanev and Stech combined for 6 goals last year.

 

you telling me prov won't triple that? p;luis adding Hughes and maybe one of the UFAS?

 

You realize the Canucks set a record for most man games lost right?

 You think that might of had something to do with the goal difference?

 

Edler Hughes OJ Pouliot Prov Guddy Zotto or a UFA  is miles better than anything we had last year.

 

But since it seems you like to disagree most of the time. I will assume you will do the same.

 

 

wake me up when this trade happens ok ?

i'll freely admit at that time i'm wrong and a negative nelly

 

most of these proposals have little to do with team building and balance

people are just hoping for shiny new toys

and getting other teams' talent for less then fair market value

 

i don't get a thrill at all out of these fantasy world type proposals

i'll go back to my previous stance of no longer commenting on them

the draft drew me back in to these issues

but prior to the draft i simply ignored these sorts of threads

seems like everyone will be happier if i go back to that approach

[Canucklehead73]

3 hours ago, mll said:

 With how he spoke of Frost or Sanheim it doesn't sound like they would be made available.

 

How would you talk about your assets? Not really disagreeing with you but most GM's are not speaking the truth when they are talking about their teams assets potential and ability.

 

Same goes for players talking about contracts... you never hear the real truth 

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, Agoork said:

They need a defensive center as well. 

The Hockey Writers had an article speculating that Sutter could be a target for Philly, and that their later 1st round pick (#19) could get the deal done.

Add in Tanev and take back a cap dump to even out the cap a bit, and we could really increase our prospect pool. 

Sure, it would hurt our defensive abilities this coming season, but this is all about the future...

I think the 2 teams make pretty good trading partners considering each teams situation.  We have what they need, and they have what we need.

I don't know what a deal would look like, but with Philly having 2 1st round picks, Frost, Sanheim and a wealth of other prospects, all the pieces for a deal to be made are there.  Maybe only for Sutter, or maybe only for Tanev... or maybe even a lesser deal for someone like Granlund. 

When I first read this my initial response was 'have you heard of Sean Couturier'?

But it's really just a matter of wording - ie if you'd said they need another defensive center as well, I'd agree with you.

 

However, the Canucks are in a similar situation imo.

The Canucks may have Sutter, but they too could stand to add another veteran shutdown/faceoff center to the mix.

They have a good wealth of talented young forwards - and some very good two way middle-six and depth forwards - but I think it's too early to lean on their own graduated prospects to play hard center minutes (wingers are fine) on their second bottom six line.   Moving Sutter would only greatly exaccerbate that.   They need Sutter - and arguably another depth C - to handle those hard minutes, handle dzone starts and top lines, generate ozone finishes/starts for young forwards, and generally make life easier on their young top 6 forwards.

I don't think this team is at the stage where it moves players like Sutter in teardown type deals - they've never approached this as a teardown, and they're even less likely to make this kind of move at this juncture imo.

 

Tanev is an interesting target for Philadelphia - although ideally I think a return on him would include an NHL ready defenseman as part of the package (or worthwhile veteran placeholder with futures)....

Might be good timing for them to make a move though with talented young guys emerging, their key vets in the 30 yr range - their window could be a year or two away, but a deal or two could open that for them.  

[bp79]

26 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

wake me up when this trade happens ok ?

i'll freely admit at that time i'm wrong and a negative nelly

 

most of these proposals have little to do with team building and balance

people are just hoping for shiny new toys

and getting other teams' talent for less then fair market value

 

i don't get a thrill at all out of these fantasy world type proposals

i'll go back to my previous stance of no longer commenting on them

the draft drew me back in to these issues

but prior to the draft i simply ignored these sorts of threads

seems like everyone will be happier if i go back to that approach

You should read my other posts. in fact, if you read the one you commented on,\. I clearly said I hope we never trade Tanev. Don't act all high and might with you new toy analogy

I simply responded to a threrad.,and gave my opinion on what Tanev and Sutter should bring. You realize this is all hypothetical right?.

It isn't about you responding or not. It is the fact you do it in such a crass and facetious.way. No need to be an arrogant jerk.

[mll]

1 hour ago, Canucklehead73 said:

How would you talk about your assets? Not really disagreeing with you but most GM's are not speaking the truth when they are talking about their teams assets potential and ability.

 

Same goes for players talking about contracts... you never hear the real truth 

 

Hextall has always had the same message over the years.  He wants to build his team from within and wants their young players to displace veterans.  

 

In his end of season presser he insisted that he was going to continue to stay the course re bringing up youth when they earn it.  He talked about how during the season they felt that Sanheim and Lindblom (a F) would be an upgrade over what they had, so they brought them up and they have been.  

 

Hextall wants to upgrade on some of his non-core players - it might mean some lateral trades.  They are looking for a C3 because they don't think they have the solution in house.  It buys time for their prospects to continue to develop. 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

Lets not dump all of our best defensive players please. Sutter had 25% ozone starts. That kind of zone protection will be massive for our kids. It’s because of him guys like the Sedins and the Boeser line could have protected shifts in the ozone.

 

Can move Tanev or Sutter but not both. Our defense is garbage enough without neutering our team. Sutter is far more valuable to us than Tanev and Tanev has more trade value. I say keep Sutter.

[TheHitman]

10 hours ago, Top Sven Baercheese said:

You're dreaming if you think we could get 14th overall + a top prospect for Tanev.

He's got too many injuries. I do like the idea of trading with Philly, but I'm sure they aren't moving Sanheim as he's a top defensive prospect.  
I think many people know that Tanev is a great D-man, but he'll only be great for you for 2/3 of the season when he's playing. 
I think if we were to trade, we'd be able to get one of their center prospects back, as they have Couturier, Giroux, Patrick, Laughton, Filpulla, Lehtera, and Konecny who can all play Center, with Frost and Rubstov as center prospects. I'd say Frost + 2nd rounder would be more likely. 

What other RHD could they feasibly get? They are direly struggling on defense with poor goaltending and don't really have any defensemen like Tanev now. Ron Hextall has moved towards more of an analytics approach which would make Tanev a suitable target for them. It's not like the Canucks can really afford to trade Tanev either so it should take good assets to pry him away from the Canucks. A mid 1st and B prospect for Tanev would be a huge steal for the Flyers who haven't won many trades lately.

[Ronaldoescobar]

While stranger things have happened. I would find it hard to believe you would get much more than an early second round pick (or equivalent prospect) for Tanev.

 

Keep him as he is worth a lot more to Vancouver than what you would get back from another team.  

[HockeydownUnder]

4 hours ago, bp79 said:

You should read my other posts. in fact, if you read the one you commented on,\. I clearly said I hope we never trade Tanev. Don't act all high and might with you new toy analogy

I simply responded to a threrad.,and gave my opinion on what Tanev and Sutter should bring. You realize this is all hypothetical right?.

It isn't about you responding or not. It is the fact you do it in such a crass and facetious.way. No need to be an arrogant jerk.

These proposals may be all hypothetical but ideally they should be at least somewhat realistic. Provorov isn't going to be made available for bits and pieces. They will want a young piece coming back and it will have to a piece that is a lot better than Stetcher.

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/ivan-provorov-played-game-6-grade-3-shoulder-ac-separation%3famp

 

Provorov is actually pretty good in his own end. He just turned 21 a couple months ago. He has the makings of a 1D. Your offer for a player of that calibre is insulting. You actually said you've never seen D as bad as the Flyers and that statement in itself is mind boggling. For perspective, the Flyers allowed 21 less goals than the Canucks last season and the Flyers goaltending didn't exactly do them any favors. Their defense is also very young asides from Macdonald and Gudas.

 

Philly aren't in win now mode. If they were they wouldn't have traded Schenn. They have a number of really good young pieces they plan to develop and they have vets they will sell off in the next couple years for more assets.

 

You want to start calling people arrogant jerks, fine. Don't be surprised when people point out how terrible every one of your proposals are. And I can't stress enough how laughable every proposal you've ever posted has been

[bp79]

9 minutes ago, HockeydownUnder said:

These proposals may be all hypothetical but ideally they should be at least somewhat realistic. Provorov isn't going to be made available for bits and pieces. They will want a young piece coming back and it will have to a piece that is a lot better than Stetcher.

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/ivan-provorov-played-game-6-grade-3-shoulder-ac-separation%3famp

 

Provorov is actually pretty good in his own end. He just turned 21 a couple months ago. He has the makings of a 1D. Your offer for a player of that calibre is insulting. You actually said you've never seen D as bad as the Flyers and that statement in itself is mind boggling. For perspective, the Flyers allowed 21 less goals than the Canucks last season and the Flyers goaltending didn't exactly do them any favors. Their defense is also very young asides from Macdonald and Gudas.

 

Philly aren't in win now mode. If they were they wouldn't have traded Schenn. They have a number of really good young pieces they plan to develop and they have vets they will sell off in the next couple years for more assets.

 

You want to start calling people arrogant jerks, fine. Don't be surprised when people point out how terrible every one of your proposals are. And I can't stress enough how laughable every proposal you've ever posted has been

So Tanev a 1st 2nd and 3rd Baer and sterch are bits and pieces? good to know. name a few of my terrible proposals? Considering I very seldom even bother. As for calling someone arrogant. If he wasn't;t being so why didn't he stick up for himself? Why not read all the arrogant things he said to me before judging me. 

 

So again please pull up these terrible proposals I have made. BTW anyone who calls a 1st Tanev Baer a 2nd Sutter and Stech. needs to evaluate their hockey Iq. I wait with baited breath for some made up proposals that you are going to claim I made. Man Cdc is full of

 liars,

BTW I don't like to be accused of thing I never said  Making up a lie is a \\cause for a ban you have 1 hour to find these so-called terribkl\le posts or I get the mods involved.

[6string]

No.

[bp79]

23 minutes ago, HockeydownUnder said:

These proposals may be all hypothetical but ideally they should be at least somewhat realistic. Provorov isn't going to be made available for bits and pieces. They will want a young piece coming back and it will have to a piece that is a lot better than Stetcher.

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/ivan-provorov-played-game-6-grade-3-shoulder-ac-separation%3famp

 

Provorov is actually pretty good in his own end. He just turned 21 a couple months ago. He has the makings of a 1D. Your offer for a player of that calibre is insulting. You actually said you've never seen D as bad as the Flyers and that statement in itself is mind boggling. For perspective, the Flyers allowed 21 less goals than the Canucks last season and the Flyers goaltending didn't exactly do them any favors. Their defense is also very young asides from Macdonald and Gudas.

 

Philly aren't in win now mode. If they were they wouldn't have traded Schenn. They have a number of really good young pieces they plan to develop and they have vets they will sell off in the next couple years for more assets.

 

You want to start calling people arrogant jerks, fine. Don't be surprised when people point out how terrible every one of your proposals are. And I can't stress enough how laughable every proposal you've ever posted has been

Shows how much you know about hockey surfer boy. Philly is very much in win-now mode. ever heard or Claude Jacob  Simmonds Coutier? 

[JeremyCuddles]

3 minutes ago, bp79 said:

Shows how much you know about hockey surfer boy. Philly is very much in win-now mode. ever heard or Claude Jacob  Simmonds Coutier? 

The oldest player of that bunch is 30. Voracek is 28, Couturier is 25, Simmonds is 29. It's not Cup or bust for them. The next couple years will be good experience for guys like Provorov, Konecny, and Patrick. And in a few years their oldest player will be 32/33 year old Giroux. Which as we have seen is not that old and he'll still be a great player for them.

[bp79]

2 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

The oldest player of that bunch is 30. Voracek is 28, Couturier is 25, Simmonds is 29. It's not Cup or bust for them. The next couple years will be good experience for guys like Provorov, Konecny, and Patrick. And in a few years their oldest player will be 32/33 year old Giroux. Which as we have seen is not that old and he'll still be a great player for them.

Players peak at 27-28 their window is now. Especially when they are going to have capo\p issues soon.Imnot saying its closing in the next couple of years, but its definitely open right now.