Primal Optimist

Where are we now?

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6 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

They were pretty much same as SC finalist Vegas, much bigger than Tampa and even bigger than the Bruins.   The perceptions is Canucks are small - they are not.   They are also not slow.   What they are, with Sedins retired now, is young.    That can change with a few signings but they will be one of younger teams next year unless they make some signings.    They do struggle to score but their "awful" D wasn't as bad as many think - when their top 4 was actually together, and it wasn't nearly enough, they had a playoff point pace.    Now they need to do that for more than 30ish games.

It's ok to be small if you're very talented like Vegas, Tampa and the Bruins are.  Just because they're not bottom 5 in size doesn't mean they're not small but maybe you're right in that it should be phrased differently.  They're built soft not small, which again is ok if you're very talented but the Canucks are not.  As far as the other stuff it's just a judgement call to a point.  Like how bad is the D?  Nonexistent offense and at best average defense from that group.  

 

Yeah it can change with some signings.. that doesn't need to be said, because that goes for every team in the league.  It will most likely change, but we're judging on the previous season and the current roster.  When change is made, we can reassess the situation.  I'm sure Benning won't be going into 2019 with this same group on D.  

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Where are we now? Still years away in my estimation.

 

I appreciate your optimism but I don't see this team being close to rebuilt. The defense has Tanev & Edler. Both good top 4 defenseman, then an abundance of bottom pair guys struggling to take the next step. Stecher is probably the closest to a legit top 4 but is he quite there yet? Still waiting on Guddy to be the player Lindenning paid a premium for. Pouliot is going from young to mid-age and still middling. MDZ isn't a top 4D plain and simple. Ben Hutton's regression is a massive blow to the outlook of this team IMO. This is a guy the Canucks were rumored at one point to not want to include in a deal for Tyson Barrie & now he's barely an NHL player. He was one of the reason's they even brought Guddy in. He was supposed to be a T4D going forward. Atleast they have Juolevi coming, but when he'll arrive to help this defense is still up in the air, especially with the recent news. And it will take more than just him. 

 

Boeser, Horvat & Pettersson definitely give this team some hope, but there is still work to be done to surround those guys properly. If Pettersson is a winger his first year then they could use another center. I just talked about the defense. Goaltending isn't as a big a deal with Demko coming but it won't steal them alot of games in the near future. They could probably use some more grit down the lineup. The penalty kill was in the bottom 3rd again this season and could stand to improve. And some of these young wingers (Leipsic, Dahlen, Goldy & Jake especially) need to step up and provide some legit secondary scoring after Boeser. And the defense also needs to provide more offense aswell. 

 

Atleast now with Baertschi/Horvat/Boeser and then Pettersson on the next line, we will have some guys that can create offense. But Pettersson needs someone to play with that's better than Sam Gagner and Brandon Sutter. And then they have to fix everything else around them.

 

I think its still a process my friends, and one that can't be rushed either. But we shall see how things play out here. 

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2 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

It's ok to be small if you're very talented like Vegas, Tampa and the Bruins are.  Just because they're not bottom 5 in size doesn't mean they're not small but maybe you're right in that it should be phrased differently.  They're built soft not small, which again is ok if you're very talented but the Canucks are not.  As far as the other stuff it's just a judgement call to a point.  Like how bad is the D?  Nonexistent offense and at best average defense from that group.  

 

Yeah it can change with some signings.. that doesn't need to be said, because that goes for every team in the league.  It will most likely change, but we're judging on the previous season and the current roster.  When change is made, we can reassess the situation.  I'm sure Benning won't be going into 2019 with this same group on D.  

I think the Canuck D is decent defensively (when healthy as they showed last year) but could not agree with you more re. the inability to create O.  It has been an issue for the team for about five years and counting.

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On 5/19/2018 at 10:32 AM, Chris12345 said:

Great question. Hard to answer as there can be many variables in play very quickly.

 

This won't be popular but I think the Canucks are being set up nicely to be a pretender for the next decade and do a lot of nothing for a long time.

I think I disagree... We've gotten pretty lucky with the draft so far. Horvat at 9, Petterson at 5, Boeser at 23, Gaudette at 149, Demko at 36, and Dipietro at 64. Yea we've misfired with Virtanen, and arguably Juolevi(Juolevi was a great pick, Tkachuk was the right pick), but they're both still going to be NHL players who could find their game. Ben Hutton at 147, and Tryamkin at 66, yes there are question marks with these guys, but if they pan out, that's 8 good quality nhl players on your team. 

Petterson and Boeser have that elite potential. 

There's a special team being built here, these kids are growing up together. Just need 1-2 more great picks and they'll have themselves a contender when Bo hits his prime. There's a lot to be excited about if you're a fan.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

I think I disagree... We've gotten pretty lucky with the draft so far. Horvat at 9, Petterson at 5, Boeser at 23, Gaudette at 149, Demko at 36, and Dipietro at 64. Yea we've misfired with Virtanen, and arguably Juolevi(Juolevi was a great pick, Tkachuk was the right pick), but they're both still going to be NHL players who could find their game. Ben Hutton at 147, and Tryamkin at 66, yes there are question marks with these guys, but if they pan out, that's 8 good quality nhl players on your team. 

Petterson and Boeser have that elite potential. 

There's a special team being built here, these kids are growing up together. Just need 1-2 more great picks and they'll have themselves a contender when Bo hits his prime. There's a lot to be excited about if you're a fan.

I think if Gaudette is put with the right players, he has the ability to be very successful (i.e., he is not a plug).

I hope he gets a chance to play with the skilled, fast players like Pettersson, Boeser and Dahlen (if Dahlen is the player that I think he is).

Possibly Dahlen, Gaudette, Pettersson...Baer, Bo, Boeser...JV, Sutter, Leipsic...Reeves, LE, Archie (Gaunce)

Waive Gagner

 

Goldy...if Dahlen isn't ready.

Edited by Pete M
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14 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

I think I disagree... We've gotten pretty lucky with the draft so far. Horvat at 9, Petterson at 5, Boeser at 23, Gaudette at 149, Demko at 36, and Dipietro at 64. Yea we've misfired with Virtanen, and arguably Juolevi(Juolevi was a great pick, Tkachuk was the right pick), but they're both still going to be NHL players who could find their game. Ben Hutton at 147, and Tryamkin at 66, yes there are question marks with these guys, but if they pan out, that's 8 good quality nhl players on your team. 

Petterson and Boeser have that elite potential. 

There's a special team being built here, these kids are growing up together. Just need 1-2 more great picks and they'll have themselves a contender when Bo hits his prime. There's a lot to be excited about if you're a fan.

I hope I am wrong!!!!!!!

 

I don't feel those picks are elite players. Probably  Brock....or pretty darn close. I fail to see how the Canucks can draft so many elite players in deep rounds. It's not like Crosby, Ovi, McDavid, or Daughty  went at 147.  Even if Benning is good the stats will come into play. OJ or Mathews? The point is other teams will cycle up with better picks.

 

I think they still MIGHT need a No1 center, another winger, and 2 dman, 1 being elite. You don't get those picking at 5 down every year.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

I hope I am wrong!!!!!!!

 

I don't feel those picks are elite players. Probably  Brock....or pretty darn close. I fail to see how the Canucks can draft so many elite players in deep rounds. It's not like Crosby, Ovi, McDavid, or Daughty  went at 147.  Even if Benning is good the stats will come into play. OJ or Mathews? The point is other teams will cycle up with better picks.

 

I think they still MIGHT need a No1 center, another winger, and 2 dman, 1 being elite. You don't get those picking at 5 down every year.

 


I think you misinterpret what elite skill is. Brock was on pace for 42 goals this year, at such a young age... That is elite talent. Petterson is a AAA prospect, whether you believe it or not, the kid has an elite ceiling, and the tool kit to dominate this league.

Horvat is following Scheifele's development curve almost to a T, Scheifele is elite, is he not? Bo has that top end ceiling, he's far from his prime. Gaudette is being lauded as the steal of his draft class, the kid is looking "real good", maybe not elite, but you don't need 9 elite drafted players.

In 3-5 years when all these guys are really hitting their stride, this will be a dangerous team, and not to mention the draft picks we pick up over the years while that happens. This is the most positive direction I've seen this team go in since 2006-2011. Hopefully OJ pans out into the smooth skating top pairing D-man and we can play him with one of Dobson/Boqvist/Hughes.(Truth be told, I think Wahlstrom will be the BPA @7

Edited by 5Fivehole0

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5 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

I hope I am wrong!!!!!!!

 

I don't feel those picks are elite players. Probably  Brock....or pretty darn close. I fail to see how the Canucks can draft so many elite players in deep rounds. It's not like Crosby, Ovi, McDavid, or Daughty  went at 147.  Even if Benning is good the stats will come into play. OJ or Mathews? The point is other teams will cycle up with better picks.

 

I think they still MIGHT need a No1 center, another winger, and 2 dman, 1 being elite. You don't get those picking at 5 down every year.

 

 

I think Vegas changed that line of thinking.  Sure they didn't win the cup, but they sure came close with a boatload of over-achieving lunch bucket players that were totally committed to each other.

 

Surround 2 or 3 elite players with moderately skilled character guys and a team may find some kind of synergy.

 

Trevor knows what it takes.  He was on such a team in 1994.

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3 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:


I think you misinterpret what elite skill is. Brock was on pace for 42 goals this year, at such a young age... That is elite talent. Petterson is a AAA prospect, whether you believe it or not, the kid has an elite ceiling, and the tool kit to dominate this league.

Horvat is following Scheifele's development curve almost to a T, Scheifele is elite, is he not? Bo has that top end ceiling, he's far from his prime. Gaudette is being lauded as the steal of his draft class, the kid is looking "real good", maybe not elite, but you don't need 9 elite drafted players.

In 3-5 years when all these guys are really hitting their stride, this will be a dangerous team, and not to mention the draft picks we pick up over the years while that happens. This is the most positive direction I've seen this team go in since 2006-2011. Hopefully OJ pans out into the smooth skating top pairing D-man and we can play him with one of Dobson/Boqvist/Hughes.(Truth be told, I think Wahlstrom will be the BPA @7

This is exactly it. Plus I don't think you need an elite center. Nobody considered Morrison elite yet the WCE line was one of the best top lines in the league. Most top lines that excel are two elite players plus a good complimentary player. I could actually see our top line being Virtanen/Pettersson/Boeser down the line with Jake the complimentary player.

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12 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I think Vegas changed that line of thinking.  Sure they didn't win the cup, but they sure came close with a boatload of over-achieving lunch bucket players that were totally committed to each other.

 

Surround 2 or 3 elite players with moderately skilled character guys and a team may find some kind of synergy.

 

Trevor knows what it takes.  He was on such a team in 1994.

I was thinking about Vegas too and how they changed the equation. Good post.

 

Bure was something else though....that's elite.

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12 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:


I think you misinterpret what elite skill is. Brock was on pace for 42 goals this year, at such a young age... That is elite talent. Petterson is a AAA prospect, whether you believe it or not, the kid has an elite ceiling, and the tool kit to dominate this league.

Horvat is following Scheifele's development curve almost to a T, Scheifele is elite, is he not? Bo has that top end ceiling, he's far from his prime. Gaudette is being lauded as the steal of his draft class, the kid is looking "real good", maybe not elite, but you don't need 9 elite drafted players.

In 3-5 years when all these guys are really hitting their stride, this will be a dangerous team, and not to mention the draft picks we pick up over the years while that happens. This is the most positive direction I've seen this team go in since 2006-2011. Hopefully OJ pans out into the smooth skating top pairing D-man and we can play him with one of Dobson/Boqvist/Hughes.(Truth be told, I think Wahlstrom will be the BPA @7

Yea I hope I am wrong I just struggle with the idea of being able to draft players late and consistently turn them into elite players.

 

Having said that I do agree this is a great direction. I love Bo but I don't think he will be elite. He doesn't need to be elite though he just needs to be Bo. He isn't the problem....it's whether or not Petterson pans out and if he is a No 1 center we have a No 1 center. Looks like he will be great but I am on the fence about elite. 

 

I also have very high standards of elite but that's ok. Brock is almost there and there's no reason to believe he won't get there.

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1 minute ago, Chris12345 said:

I was thinking about Vegas too and how they changed the equation. Good post.

 

Bure was something else though....that's elite.

He sure was.  We're all hoping that Pettersson will be that kind of elite eh?  Elias sure has the drive that Paval had.

 

Boeser has elite potential.

 

Maybe Demko?

 

Maybe #7 will reach that height one day?

 

If they can get a decent lotto in next year's draft...

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