Did Travis Green mishandle Nikolai Goldobin?

[IBatch]

Why is his even a thread.  Goldilocks had primo minutes with one of the most talented Canucks ever to lace them up and couldn’t make it work.  It’s NOT Greens fault he couldn’t make it work.  I had very high hopes for him this year and for a while he didn’t disappoint, and then he fell off the map.  Effort seems to be his biggest issue.  Skating back for line changes two years ago was cringe worthy to watch.  No hustle coasted like he’d just run a marathon or something and for a while it looked like he figured it out and then just ran out of gas.  Trade him if we can, if not waive him.  His production is not Greens fault, at his age he should know better.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Isn't this the same reason people gave up on Grabner basically when he was young.... He had offensive abilities but couldn't play D or hustle back on D, so he must not be good enough to play in the NHL....

[oldnews]

6 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Isn't this the same reason people gave up on Grabner basically when he was young.... He had offensive abilities but couldn't play D or hustle back on D, so he must not be good enough to play in the NHL....

Grabner wasn't "given up on" by the Canucks - he was traded in a deal for a guy that underachieved/was injured here - named Keith Ballard - who was a pretty solid top 4 D when he was acquired.

 

Grabner went on to be waived by the Florida Panthers - who "gave up" on him.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Just now, oldnews said:

Grabner wasn't "given up on" by the Canucks - he was traded in a deal for a guy that underachieved/was injured here - named Keith Ballard - who was a pretty solid top 4 D when he was acquired.

 

Grabner went on to be waived by the Florida Panthers - who "gave up" on him.

I'm talking about the people on here not the Canucks organization

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

I'm talking about the people on here not the Canucks organization

It was nearly 10 years ago, so I'm not sure who 'gave up' on Grabner on these boards - but Goldobin doesn't quite have one key asset Grabner does - world-class speed.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Just now, oldnews said:

It was nearly 10 years ago, so I'm not sure who 'gave up' on Grabner on these boards - but Goldobin doesn't quite have one key asset Grabner does - world-class speed.

Touche, but still the general public didn't care for him due to that flaw in his game and were in favor of getting ride of him and giving up on him. I'm seeing similarities a bit here with Goldy, yes Grabner had the speed and actually had a good shot and I actually can remember getting into arguments on here with people with them saying he had no shot, Grabner though didn't have the hands like Goldobin does Goldy may not be a sniper but he has great hands and patience to make passes to set up players for great offensive chances Grabner didn't have that in his offence. Anyways point is I stood behind Grabner when he was a Canuck, and I stand behind Goldobin as well but the way it played out in the last part of the season good chance he's gone though.

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Touche, but still the general public didn't care for him due to that flaw in his game and were in favor of getting ride of him and giving up on him. I'm seeing similarities a bit here with Goldy, yes Grabner had the speed and actually had a good shot and I actually can remember getting into arguments on here with people with them saying he had no shot, Grabner though didn't have the hands like Goldobin does Goldy may not be a sniper but he has great hands and patience to make passes to set up players for great offensive chances Grabner didn't have that in his offence. Anyways point is I stood behind Grabner when he was a Canuck, and I stand behind Goldobin as well but the way it played out in the last part of the season good chance he's gone though.

I agree with you that it's too early to 'give up' on Goldobin.  But I also think that it's not going to get an easier for him to earn minutes here, so he needs to take another big step.  I think he's a late bloomer type / young-minded - call it what you want - I wouldn't be surprised if he were one of those guys that improved considerably at 23, 24 years of age.  But in some / a lot of circumstances, you don't have that time - and wind up on your third or fourth stop / team by then.  I also think that despite Goldobin's skillset, he might not make the best fit in Vancouver because I think the principal skilled LW spot they're looking to fill (with EP) could use a different kind of player - heavier, forechecking, hard areas two-way player if that line is going to consist of EP and Boeser.  So then - does Goldobin fit on Horvat's line?  Not sure - particularly with the amount of hard minutes Horvat handles at time - it appears that Pearson is a better fit there.  And beyond - not sure Goldobin fits that well on a 3rd or 4th line.  Somewhat unfortunate imo - he'd be a good, talented young player to keep around and give time, but I think the clock is ticking faster given the circunstances here.  I'd probably look to move him despite his talent, to see if they can land a better fit - or more veratile type player.   These are a few of the similar concerns I'd have had with Dahlen's fit, if he'd performed better and was warranting a recall (despite the talent, was he a good fit?  Might be in the SHL - but not sure that's the case in the NHL, particularly with Boeser more and more looking like EP's principal winger.  

 

I think I'd be looking to move him for a comparable - one that might have a better chance of sticking somewhere in the lineup - I think if it were up to me I'd be looking for a guy like Kamenev if he could be had out of Colorado.

[bobbyg43]

I am not a dump an chase fan I think Goldie was just starting to get it an showed signs of coming around when Green dumped him to press box. Wasting free pick up players has no real value . All this exercise do was help Goldie to next level of his career, an it is apparent he will not be in Vancouver uniform. My checks an balances on coach Green are getting bit skewered now.I will say some times it was always gonna be gut check on Goldie an he failed to measure in that department for Coach Green .

[TNucks1]

35 minutes ago, bobbyg43 said:

I am not a dump an chase fan I think Goldie was just starting to get it an showed signs of coming around when Green dumped him to press box. Wasting free pick up players has no real value . All this exercise do was help Goldie to next level of his career, an it is apparent he will not be in Vancouver uniform. My checks an balances on coach Green are getting bit skewered now.I will say some times it was always gonna be gut check on Goldie an he failed to measure in that department for Coach Green .

in his last interveiw, he sounded pretty motivated to get into shape and work on his skills this summer, hoping too see him kill it next year.

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, bobbyg43 said:

I am not a dump an chase fan I think Goldie was just starting to get it an showed signs of coming around when Green dumped him to press box. Wasting free pick up players has no real value . All this exercise do was help Goldie to next level of his career, an it is apparent he will not be in Vancouver uniform. My checks an balances on coach Green are getting bit skewered now.I will say some times it was always gonna be gut check on Goldie an he failed to measure in that department for Coach Green .

Canucks as an org seem pretty consistent in their approach both in Vancouver and Utica. I understand that it can be a fine balance between TOI and sitting. While Virtanen hasn't reached his top end yet I liked the way he was handled. He started the season as a show me player and as the season progressed his TOI went from 10 - 12 minutes to 14 - 16 minutes. He moved up and down the lines. Goldy seems to have to play top 6 or not at all. That is tough. My biggest gripe is that he is not hard enough on the puck. It is what likely kills his NHL career.   

[CanucksJay]

Im still secretly hoping Goldy trains hard this summer and signs a one year one way deal.

 

That is highly unlikely though.... 

 

[oldnews]

On 4/20/2019 at 9:10 PM, CanucksJay said:

Im still secretly hoping Goldy trains hard this summer and signs a one year one way deal.

 

That is highly unlikely though.... 

 

I don't really see what other options he has.  He's an RFA - he's performed at a tweener level (imo) - and he doesn't have a great deal of leverage.

 

I think he has little choice but to re-sign (if he's offered a contract/qualified) work hard, come back and try to seize what might be a last opportunity here. 

If he doesn't succeed, he'll be waiver eligible - so it's possible he's dealt - or claimed off waivers and may get another opportunity elsewhere, but there are better ways to gain an NHL roster spot than being claimed off waivers.

 

I think he's a late-developing type - but I'm also concerned that he's not a great fit in the makeup of the forward group (that arguably could use a bit more heaviness/physicality in their top line....and I'm not sure he's a fit on the Horvat Pearson line - unless it becomes less of a defensive/counterpunch/transition line and more of an opportune, secondary scoring line.  Not easy to see a fit for Goldobin, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if he's just on the verge of his realistic window - he showed some signs amongst a lot of inconsistency but there's a player in there to grow into.

[oldnews]

On 4/17/2019 at 3:54 PM, Boudrias said:

Canucks as an org seem pretty consistent in their approach both in Vancouver and Utica. I understand that it can be a fine balance between TOI and sitting. While Virtanen hasn't reached his top end yet I liked the way he was handled. He started the season as a show me player and as the season progressed his TOI went from 10 - 12 minutes to 14 - 16 minutes. He moved up and down the lines. Goldy seems to have to play top 6 or not at all. That is tough. My biggest gripe is that he is not hard enough on the puck. It is what likely kills his NHL career.   

Yeah - thankfully that's something that can be worked on - but he needs to be mentally committed/engaged consistently.

Baertschi is a good example though of a young guy that played too timid - but overcame it - a good example for Goldobin imo.

[NHL'er]

 

[Nucker 67]

Goldobin wasn't the worst player on the team, but he was treated like the worst player. My guess is Green wanted Goldobin to play a more gritty, fast tempo game. Then maybe Benning should've brought in a gritty, fast tempo player. Goldobin is skilled and needs to play with skilled players. He won't impress anyone in the bottom 6. I still believe that it was a Canucks win with this trade, but I believe they should move on from Goldobin, if Green is still the coach. What if the Canucks had Caufield, for example, and Green wanted him to play with more grit and speed and to help him with his D game he played Caufield in the bottom 6. I don't think that's how they should develop Caufield, you put him on Pettersson's or Bo's line all, season and let them figure it out over time with some guidance. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

19 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Goldobin wasn't the worst player on the team, but he was treated like the worst player. My guess is Green wanted Goldobin to play a more gritty, fast tempo game. Then maybe Benning should've brought in a gritty, fast tempo player. Goldobin is skilled and needs to play with skilled players. He won't impress anyone in the bottom 6. I still believe that it was a Canucks win with this trade, but I believe they should move on from Goldobin, if Green is still the coach. What if the Canucks had Caufield, for example, and Green wanted him to play with more grit and speed and to help him with his D game he played Caufield in the bottom 6. I don't think that's how they should develop Caufield, you put him on Pettersson's or Bo's line all, season and let them figure it out over time with some guidance. 

Completely agree with this statement. At the same time, I don't disagree with Green trying to ensure Goldobin isn't a defensive liability but we need Goldy for his offensive talent, playmaking, and how he sees the ice. That's what needs to be optimized and enhanced. We need more production. 

 

Because of his skill, Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes also need a guy like Goldy. 

Next season, unleash the kid to play to his natural talent and build his confidence. Let him find chemistry in the Top 6 all season.

 

The priority should be to get this kid to play to his offensive potential. 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Completely agree with this statement. At the same time, I don't disagree with Green trying to ensure Goldobin isn't a defensive liability but we need Goldy for his offensive talent, playmaking, and how he sees the ice. That's what needs to be optimized and enhanced. We need more production. 

 

Because of his skill, Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes also need a guy like Goldy. 

Next season, unleash the kid to play to his natural talent and build his confidence. Let him find chemistry in the Top 6 all season.

 

The priority should be to get this kid to play to his offensive potential. 

 

 

I wonder if the Canucks had better D, would that have helped Goldobin's case?  I thought he was making improvement, the last few games I saw him play he was getting more involved along the boards. He had success playing with Pettersson and Boeser, but was then taken off that line.

[Dr. Crossbar]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I wonder if the Canucks had better D, would that have helped Goldobin's case?  I thought he was making improvement, the last few games I saw him play he was getting more involved along the boards. He had success playing with Pettersson and Boeser, but was then taken off that line.

I do think it would have helped but he also had to be more defensively responsible, too. Even with solid D, he can't be one-dimensional. This past season should make him a better player in the long run. 

 

For years a huge problem has been our forwards and defense doing way too much. We need more offense from our D and we need our forwards to be more defensively sound. 

 

So, yeah, this is another reason why we need to really sure up our D asap ... to allow our fowards to focus more on what they're good at ... allowing guys like Goldy to flourish. 

[oldnews]

20 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Goldobin wasn't the worst player on the team, but he was treated like the worst player.

This is a fundamental misread though.

He was treated like the least NHL-ready player on the roster - treated like the least developed, two way, versatile player on the roster - which is exactly what he was (aside from guys that went back and forth to Utica).   Pettersson is light years ahead of him without the puck on his stick.  Gaudette is a more mindful, engaged defensive forward, and he would have been in Utica were it not for multiple injuries.   Goldobin was treated like.....Goldobin.

 

[oldnews]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I do think it would have helped but he also had to be more defensively responsible, too. Even with solid D, he can't be one-dimensional. This past season should make him a better player in the long run. 

 

For years a huge problem has been our forwards and defense doing way too much. We need more offense from our D and we need our forwards to be more defensively sound. 

 

So, yeah, this is another reason why we need to really sure up our D asap ... to allow our fowards to focus more on what they're good at ... allowing guys like Goldy to flourish. 

And this is what limited Goldobin's minutes - in addition to the fact that EP and Boeser - particularly when the lineup wasn't very healthy, needed more heaviness out of their other linemate, and Horvat's line, playing a lot of shutdown was also not a good fit for Goldobin.  Goldobin was 'good' but unfortunately not good enough to tailor a line around - so it's really on Goldobin in the end to command minutes - and certainly not on Green to feed him them regardless of circumstances.