What the Nylander contract negotiations taught the agents of all these RFAs and how it can really affect the Canucks cap issue. I highly suggest for all to read this.

[coastal.view]

2 hours ago, Qwags said:

This will be my 10,499th post of my time on CDC. As the leading authority on people with this number of posts, I'd like to think I can offer some wisdom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like pie.

well with such a vast history of authority and experience

i think i can speak for all of us on here

that you should at least specify what kind of pie

 

theoretical pie does not make me drool

but a banana chocolate cream pie does

 

[Qwags]

19 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

well with such a vast history of authority and experience

i think i can speak for all of us on here

that you should at least specify what kind of pie

 

theoretical pie does not make me drool

but a banana chocolate cream pie does

 

Pumpkin pie or die. 

[oldnews]

5 hours ago, Qwags said:

This will be my 10,499th post of my time on CDC. As the leading authority on people with this number of posts, I'd like to think I can offer some wisdom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like pie.

 

I will try pie.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, Qwags said:

Pumpkin pie or die. 

I love pumpkin pie - so hard not to eat the whole gd thing in one or two sittings.

[rekker]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

I love pumpkin pie - so hard not to eat the whole gd thing in one or two sittings.

Yip. With whip cream. One of my favs. 

[IBatch]

Guys rarely sit out and until the last few years used to be offered a fair contract.  Nylander was paid too much.  The take away from this is the apple doesn’t far much from the tree (like father like son).  Don’t think we have anything to worry about with Boeser.  He’s not getting AHO type money, that bar has already been firmly set...Eichel, McDavid, AM also did that.  

 

We don’t have  to understand  the intricacies of a contract to see BS when it’s right in front of us and he got a BS deal...it’s NOT team friendly, Kadri says hello him and Gardiner are the first casualties oh yeah and a first plus Marleau.  Sure they got one year of Barrie so it’s not all bad.  

 

RFAs are getting paid way too much now, at least the best ones, and TO could have made a statement but instead choose to pay up and did with both Nylander and AM (one of the highest paid guys in the league but yet to break 80 points, not a top five guy yet let alone a top five center).   Marner will get his big cheque too.    In fact Eichels PPG and PP sixty aren’t much different then Boesers at the same time...good thing we won’t have to pay him 10 million right? 

 

And on the OP .... I did NOT have to read it, but I did anyways and still don’t see why that’s like a secret mystery of the universe and how the heck it really matters when it comes to Boeser.   What I said at the beginning is a way bigger impact (RFAs making third contract money now).   All things being equal, six years ago Boeser would be making 4-5 in today’s dollars on a full term deal.  He’s about the sixth best RFA up this year and the best ones (Marner and Point) would be making around 7 on a term deal that took them to free agency or bought maybe one year. 

 

Way back when Tavares signed for 5 and EK was the best in the world already and signed for 7.5 ish...things were a lot better cap wise, now teams are sacrificing too much to pay these guys and no team can afford a powerhouse except for Vegas, Florida and TB...

[Russ]

Also have to remember if you're not a playoff threat like the leafs were, you could always let the player sit the whole season.

 

And how many RFAs looked at Nylander, saw how crap he played missing that first 1/4 of the season and realized thats probably not best for their careers....

[Glug Datt]

On 7/16/2019 at 1:00 AM, mll said:

Nylander lost over 3M by holding out and it allowed the Leafs to lower his cap hit.  The cap hit of the 1st year doesn't reflect what he earned.  From the link:

 

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Cap hits are pro-rated to the time on the roster as well as salary payment save the bonus.  The team simply needs to have accounted for the contract's overall AAV and the longer he holds out the less money they need to have accounted for.  

 

Nylander got his full 2M bonus but his 10M base salary for that 1st year was pro-rated to his time on the roster.  Each day holding out cost him close to 54K (10M x 1 day / 186 days) and it ended up being over 3M.  

 

Holding out reduces the AAV of the contract as it's only calculated on the amount actually paid out.   The longer he holds out, the lower the actual salary payment so the lower the overall AAV of the contract.   Instead of having an AAV of 7.5M had he signed at the start of the season, his AAV is only 6.962M because he held out and lost salary.

 

In his 1st year the AAV is increased because the season is shortened for him.  In that 1st year he still accounted for his average AAV of 6.962M against the cap for the season although his full season cap hit was shown to be over 10M.  It's because of the pro-rata. 

 

He signed with 126 days left into a 186 day season. 126 days left / 186 day season x 10.278M = 6.962M

 

CapFriendly has the breakdown of the cap hits: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker/2019

 

It's only an issue if the team uses up the cap space before the player signs, but as long as Toronto was 6.962M under - it didn't matter when he signed.  The 6.962M cap hit is covered by banked cap space and prospective cap space.

 

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Example.  Say 22 players with exactly a 74.5M cap hit.  It leaves 7M in cap space to add 1 player and reach the 81.5M max cap hit.  No injuries and no roster movement all season to keep it simple.

 

As long as the player holding out signs for no more than a 7M AAV - they can sign him at any time and will always be cap compliant at the end of the season.

 

Signing happens 45 days into a 180 day season.  Up to those 45 days the max cap hit accumulated is 45 days / 180 days x 81.5M = 20.375M and breaks down as follows:

 

22 players at 74.5M x 45 days / 180 days = 18.625M

+ banked cap space of 7M x 45 days / 180 days = 1.75M

 

The player holding out signs and his cap hit is shown as 9.33M (7M x 180 days / 135 days left - as cap hit x pro-rata of days left must equal 7M)

 

The sum of all the cap hits at signing date is now  83.83M (74.5M + 9.33M).

 

With 135 days left that's a cap hit of 62.875M for the remainder of the season (83.83M x 135 days left / 180 days)

 

Prospective cap space is 81.5M x 135 days / 180 days =  61.125M

There's a difference between the two of 1.75M  (62.875M - 61.125M).   That difference is exactly the amount of the cap space that has been banked and can be used.

 

It's only an issue if the team didn't bank the cap space and were operating at a cap hit that doesn't cover the contract's average AAV - in this example 7M.

 

If they operated at 81.5M the first 30 days of the season with no cap space banked, then the team would need to be a full 9.33M under at the signing date to accommodate a 7M AAV.

 

THANK YOU FOR THIS! 

 

I almost started another thread entitled, 'What the Nylander contract negotiations actually taught the agents of all these RFAs and how it can really affect the Canucks cap issue. I highly suggest for Arrow 1983 to read this.'.. 

but you've saved me the trouble. 

 

Lots of comments about Brock's character & whatnot, but I was shocked that nobody was commenting on the fact that the OP doesn't even know what he's talking about.. 

[Arrow 1983]

On 7/16/2019 at 1:00 AM, mll said:

Nylander lost over 3M by holding out and it allowed the Leafs to lower his cap hit.  The cap hit of the 1st year doesn't reflect what he earned.  From the link:

 

----------

Cap hits are pro-rated to the time on the roster as well as salary payment save the bonus.  The team simply needs to have accounted for the contract's overall AAV and the longer he holds out the less money they need to have accounted for.  

 

Nylander got his full 2M bonus but his 10M base salary for that 1st year was pro-rated to his time on the roster.  Each day holding out cost him close to 54K (10M x 1 day / 186 days) and it ended up being over 3M.  

 

Holding out reduces the AAV of the contract as it's only calculated on the amount actually paid out.   The longer he holds out, the lower the actual salary payment so the lower the overall AAV of the contract.   Instead of having an AAV of 7.5M had he signed at the start of the season, his AAV is only 6.962M because he held out and lost salary.

 

In his 1st year the AAV is increased because the season is shortened for him.  In that 1st year he still accounted for his average AAV of 6.962M against the cap for the season although his full season cap hit was shown to be over 10M.  It's because of the pro-rata. 

 

He signed with 126 days left into a 186 day season. 126 days left / 186 day season x 10.278M = 6.962M

 

CapFriendly has the breakdown of the cap hits: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker/2019

 

It's only an issue if the team uses up the cap space before the player signs, but as long as Toronto was 6.962M under - it didn't matter when he signed.  The 6.962M cap hit is covered by banked cap space and prospective cap space.

 

-----------

Example.  Say 22 players with exactly a 74.5M cap hit.  It leaves 7M in cap space to add 1 player and reach the 81.5M max cap hit.  No injuries and no roster movement all season to keep it simple.

 

As long as the player holding out signs for no more than a 7M AAV - they can sign him at any time and will always be cap compliant at the end of the season.

 

Signing happens 45 days into a 180 day season.  Up to those 45 days the max cap hit accumulated is 45 days / 180 days x 81.5M = 20.375M and breaks down as follows:

 

22 players at 74.5M x 45 days / 180 days = 18.625M

+ banked cap space of 7M x 45 days / 180 days = 1.75M

 

The player holding out signs and his cap hit is shown as 9.33M (7M x 180 days / 135 days left - as cap hit x pro-rata of days left must equal 7M)

 

The sum of all the cap hits at signing date is now  83.83M (74.5M + 9.33M).

 

With 135 days left that's a cap hit of 62.875M for the remainder of the season (83.83M x 135 days left / 180 days)

 

Prospective cap space is 81.5M x 135 days / 180 days =  61.125M

There's a difference between the two of 1.75M  (62.875M - 61.125M).   That difference is exactly the amount of the cap space that has been banked and can be used.

 

It's only an issue if the team didn't bank the cap space and were operating at a cap hit that doesn't cover the contract's average AAV - in this example 7M.

 

If they operated at 81.5M the first 30 days of the season with no cap space banked, then the team would need to be a full 9.33M under at the signing date to accommodate a 7M AAV.

 

I read this post and I had to respond, mostly cause people will actually believe your math works. However, before I wrote the OP, I had thought this scenario out as well and yes you would be right if this example actually pertained to the Canucks but it doesn't. 

 

1) Without Boeser signed, Roussel's contract can not be placed on LTIR and therefore, the Canucks will have to carry his contract as he will go on IR, and will then call up a player to stay at the 23 max roster.

2) Using the current roster, Roussel on IR, Schaller in the AHL, Goldy yet not signed, Gaud on the team that would make 23 players the cap space remaining would be $5.2 mill. 

3) simple math tells us you just pulled 74.5mill out of a hat and I don't believe in magic, Canuck scenario 81.5-5.2= 76.3mill that not 74.5 million a difference of 1.8 million and you knew it because your model had to have a difference of 1.75. Furthermore, your model doesn't account for further injuries and more call ups. Your model is what we call in accounting, playing with the slim margins. In logic or reasoning we call this, reductio ad absurdum, argumentum ad absurdum. 

4) you model doesn't include signing bonuses and if you read the article that I posted you would know that signing bonuses don't get held back therefore count to the cap. Maybe you would suggest Boeser doesn't get a signing bonus and I would argue that most new NHL contracts included them and therefore, a reasonable assumption can be made he will receive one in his first year of the contract.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Arrow 1983