Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #27

[Kevin Biestra]

22 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

I tend to agree with you but it is pretty hard to argue Bo not getting consideration because of number of games when we already have 3 players picked that have played fewer games than Bo. Think he just needs to be considered on merit alone now.

 

And not to mention that the guy both you and I are currently nominating only played 289 games with the Canucks. LOL

 

My chiding is all in good fun.  But at the same time, I would suggest that one consider that there was a point where several players not yet even nominated were where Bo is at now.  Chris Oddleifson basically had his time with the Canucks end exactly where Bo is today.  And apparently his contribution hasn't stood the test of time such that he would be voted or even nominated in the late 20s.  Don Lever JUST got voted in at 26...where would he be voted in if he had been traded from the Canucks after 275 points instead of 400?  And that's just very close comparables - limiting myself to forwards and captains.

 

It's like if Trevor Linden got traded in 1992.  Without the 1989 series, or the 92 division title.  Or even the first round victory against Winnipeg.  Or the Calder nomination.  It would be like...that Trevor guy was looking really promising there for a few years and was captain for a year before Dave Babych took over, but hey, we did get player X for him so we have to appreciate that.

 

And the thing is, if Horvat left today...he would have been part of a more forgettable and less historic period of Canucks hockey than the 1970s where Oddleifson and Lever reigned.  At least they were pioneers.  Horvat's time with the Canucks (not his fault but it's true) has been a half decade of almost constant futility.  One first round playoff exit.  Six career playoff games.

 

I do believe that Horvat will stick around and will captain the team to at least a playoff series victory or two.

 

But if his Canucks career ended today...nobody in 20 years is going to be looking back on the 2014-2020 window of the Canucks as some sort of golden age like 82 or 91-94 or 2011-12.  It was just the 70s again without being pioneers.

 

The moment always seems so much more important than it is when it's in the process of happening...

Edited April 15, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[-AJ-]

20 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

I tend to agree with you but it is pretty hard to argue Bo not getting consideration because of number of games when we already have 3 players picked that have played fewer games than Bo. Think he just needs to be considered on merit alone now.

 

And not to mention that the guy both you and I are currently nominating only played 289 games with the Canucks. LOL

You make a fair point, haha and I do have Bo coming up, but I have about 4 or 5 guys to nominate before him. For my money, Rota is the better player between the two of them, scoring 42 goals in one injury-shortened year (on pace for 47 goals) and was also on pace for 39 goals in a second year. I don't usually vote for guys with fewer games, but when they play very well, I'm more likely to.

 

Of course, I suppose I'm preaching to the choir here, haha.

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, -AJ- said:

You make a fair point, haha and I do have Bo coming up, but I have about 4 or 5 guys to nominate before him. For my money, Rota is the better player between the two of them, scoring 42 goals in one injury-shortened year (on pace for 47 goals) and was also on pace for 39 goals in a second year. I don't usually vote for guys with fewer games, but when they play very well, I'm more likely to.

 

Of course, I suppose I'm preaching to the choir here, haha.

 

And a Stanley Cup final run.  The guy was one of the legends that emerged from that team.

[the grinder]

kearns  nominate  the butcher 

[Beary Sweet]

Voted Jovanovski. Nominating Kurtenbach

[5Fivehole0]

Voted Courtnall*

Nominating Hirsch

Edited April 15, 2020 by 5Fivehole0

[Timbermen]

Vote Kearns

Nominate Kurtenbach

[Kevin Biestra]

26 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Voted Ronning

Nominating Hirsch

 

Ronning was already voted in at 25.

 

And I think it's already just understood by all that this list is the top 50 Canucks of all time after Corey Hirsch.

[5Fivehole0]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Ronning was already voted in at 25.

 

And I think it's already just understood by all that this list is the top 50 Canucks of all time after Corey Hirsch.

I meant Courtnall, and everyone knows Rome is the GOAT

Edited April 15, 2020 by 5Fivehole0

[5Fivehole0]

If Mogilny is that high up, Petersson should be on the list soon. The kid's better than most guys on that list.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, You Mad Bro? said:

Voted Horvat. Already 26th in franchise scoring and only going to climb so he should be voted in right around here. 
 

Nominate Kurtenbach 

That would kind of disregards defenseman achievements and players that were great but didn't play long - like Coutnall - especially playoff hero's.   Horvat will get his due in time - and believe in five years the list could look very different now that we are close to getting back as a threat to get in the playoffs and have a young core that will only get better.  Plus even going by this alone there are others on this list that scored more points and aren't in yet - including Sundstrom who's 91 point team record lasted until Bure arrived, Adams who had both great regular seasons and notable playoff moments, - the "Streak" and going by this still not nominated Vervegaert should also be in right about here (which he should not - the hyped power forward was pretty good - on one side of the puck at least).    Don't really mind at all that he's on the list - but he should wait a while yet (same with Tanev) before getting votes over who's available now.  

Edited April 15, 2020 by IBatch

[kchengc]

Voted Kearns. Nominate Tiger

[smithers joe]

kearns

 

larinov

[Baratheon]

Vote Kearns

 

Nominate Butcher!

[Baratheon]

7 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

If Mogilny is that high up, Petersson should be on the list soon. The kid's better than most guys on that list.

Petey is a complicated one for me.  On the one hand I agree with you.  If you were to plunk EP in a 1 on 1 game he would take a lot of the guys on this list completely to school.  Part of that is just the evolution of the game however.  As good as he is, he still only has two 66 point seasons under his belt.  His 55 career goals are what Mogilny got in his first year for us to use your comparison.  

There's for sure a case to be made for him though!  His immediate impact on the team/city is probably rivaled only by Bure and maybe Hughes.

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

My chiding is all in good fun.  But at the same time, I would suggest that one consider that there was a point where several players not yet even nominated were where Bo is at now.  Chris Oddleifson basically had his time with the Canucks end exactly where Bo is today.  And apparently his contribution hasn't stood the test of time such that he would be voted or even nominated in the late 20s.  Don Lever JUST got voted in at 26...where would he be voted in if he had been traded from the Canucks after 275 points instead of 400?  And that's just very close comparables - limiting myself to forwards and captains.

 

It's like if Trevor Linden got traded in 1992.  Without the 1989 series, or the 92 division title.  Or even the first round victory against Winnipeg.  Or the Calder nomination.  It would be like...that Trevor guy was looking really promising there for a few years and was captain for a year before Dave Babych took over, but hey, we did get player X for him so we have to appreciate that.

 

And the thing is, if Horvat left today...he would have been part of a more forgettable and less historic period of Canucks hockey than the 1970s where Oddleifson and Lever reigned.  At least they were pioneers.  Horvat's time with the Canucks (not his fault but it's true) has been a half decade of almost constant futility.  One first round playoff exit.  Six career playoff games.

 

I do believe that Horvat will stick around and will captain the team to at least a playoff series victory or two.

 

But if his Canucks career ended today...nobody in 20 years is going to be looking back on the 2014-2020 window of the Canucks as some sort of golden age like 82 or 91-94 or 2011-12.  It was just the 70s again without being pioneers.

 

The moment always seems so much more important than it is when it's in the process of happening...

Couldn't have said it better if I tried - and I have almost every new thread.   Oddleifson is almost a perfect comparable minus the recent C given out.  A two-way forward, checker, mucker who also contributed on the scoreboard.  Lever waiting this long is a bordernline travesty - and guys like Sundstrom have seen little love (except 189lbs early - since his voting strategy seems to have  changed to pick one of the two or three front runners that are most deserving to keep the list from getting out of hand - same as me and maybe a few others from what I can tell).   Hoping our pretty regular posts on taking a step back and really looking at our entire history is helping swing votes a little.   My list Mogilny, Salo haven't got in yet - same with BMO and sorry Horvat you haven't done enough to be ahead of these guys yet.  Sundstrom, Kearns, Jovo, Courtnall, Adams, Babych and Hamhuis are involved in some great Canuck moments...Horvats greatest moment is taking a ridiculous amount of face offs and winning most of them one game this year.... and what about Kurtenbach? Williams and Odjick are wild cards as well.  Definitely fan favorites and great Canucks with some epic moments.  Gino's very first game going against two of the better enforcers/fighters in the league - his time playing with Bure and getting endless passes on two on ones (and missing a lot ha ha), and for the you-tube generation St. Louis vs Odjick never gets old.  Williams and his goal celebrations....and the fact his record for most PIMs is now as untouchable as Broduers wins or Orrs most productive seasons - or Gretzky's bazzillion records too.  In 200 years he will still be on top - and he played some of his best hockey with us .... and had over 1200 PIMs in 4.5 years....Is what Horvat has done so far better then that?  If we are voting for futures BB and EP and QH should be on the list by now too....but that's not how it works and how is Tanev even a top 50 Canuck?  Hard to explain that one.  Who's out then?  Murzyn - no way he should be...Aucoin?  Well both toiled on bad teams .... how many PP goals did he score again one year?  Rota?  He's already getting love ... which he should.... Smith?  One of the best goaltending seasons we've ever had....Larionov?  Hmmm.  Sure there is a case for him to be in the 45-50 range...but he's been on the list for a while AND is has also got votes pretty much right away too.   Anyways - again you said it best - I can't help getting a little fired up.  Tanev before Murzyn OK...I guess I could live with that.  But before Kearns, Jovo, Babych, Butcher, Hamhuis and Lanz...maybe even McCarthy?  Come on.

 

It's too bad Horvat has had to spend the first 1/3 of his career on a bottom team.   Wait five years and I'm sure he will have leapfrogged right into the mid-teens IF things go well and we have some playoff success.  For now though - too many other guys yet to get voted in, and a few yet to receive nominations..... 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

If Mogilny is that high up, Petersson should be on the list soon. The kid's better than most guys on that list.

Hmmm.  Well how many goals did Mogilny score again?  How many guys all-time do we have that have beat 100 points?  Mogilny is too high - I agree on that absolutely.  But if we are going on 2-3 seasons we shouldn't sleep on Larionov or Tallon either.    Better then most?  Well on this team he's not as good as Miller or QH this year alone - maybe we should wait until he's actually done something ( im a huge fan and sure he will)  Greg Adams, Ronning, Linden, Rota, Sundstrom, Sedin, Sedin, Bertuzzi, Naslund and of course Bure and Mogilny all have had better season then EP..and that's of the top of my head ...  We can all see the potential but blow on him too hard and he falls over - I have serious doubts he'd survive when the Sedins had to - and of course before that when the regular season was called more or less like the playoffs are now.   Thank god we have him - hes perfect for todays hockey - and I'm sure he will move up the list quickly...but he has to do it.  Nedved was also super hyped - the next thing etc.  Let's wait before we crown him "better than most guys on that list".   Good grief.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Baratheon said:

Petey is a complicated one for me.  On the one hand I agree with you.  If you were to plunk EP in a 1 on 1 game he would take a lot of the guys on this list completely to school.  Part of that is just the evolution of the game however.  As good as he is, he still only has two 66 point seasons under his belt.  His 55 career goals are what Mogilny got in his first year for us to use your comparison.  

There's for sure a case to be made for him though!  His immediate impact on the team/city is probably rivaled only by Bure and maybe Hughes.

The impact on the city had a lot to do with toiling for several years no doubt and what he did his first ten games was only one upped by what Bure was doing when he started despite the point difference.  You could tell right away that Bure was going to the HHOF....best skater ever - including McDavid (and don't get me going about the "fastest skater" now they let them take a stride before the clock starts PLUS they do a lap further inside the rink - it's like cheating, watch some video of how they used to do it and it's pretty clear that 14 seconds is the new 13).    Mogilny is one of a few guys to score over 70 goals in a season - and when he first came he was great.   Faded quickly and was part of the Messier era which kind of ruined it for him - became a floater and Kovalesque way too quickly.  Still its undeniable that he was one of the best talents to ever suit it up with us - arguably better then the Sedins and second to only Bure.  QH's .... well awesome too.  Let's not forget that BB also reached 50 goals faster then any rookie not named Bure too.  EP IS hard.  Two years in a row he started strong then faded over the course of the season.    Larionov probably should get in before EP - but won't.   Think he should be in the late 40's....and still he will bump someone out who's spent a lot more time with us.  Like Aucion or Murzyn.   

[Baratheon]

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The impact on the city had a lot to do with toiling for several years no doubt and what he did his first ten games was only one upped by what Bure was doing when he started despite the point difference.  You could tell right away that Bure was going to the HHOF....best skater ever - including McDavid (and don't get me going about the "fastest skater" now they let them take a stride before the clock starts PLUS they do a lap further inside the rink - it's like cheating, watch some video of how they used to do it and it's pretty clear that 14 seconds is the new 13).    Mogilny is one of a few guys to score over 70 goals in a season - and when he first came he was great.   Faded quickly and was part of the Messier era which kind of ruined it for him - became a floater and Kovalesque way too quickly.  Still its undeniable that he was one of the best talents to ever suit it up with us - arguably better then the Sedins and second to only Bure.  QH's .... well awesome too.  Let's not forget that BB also reached 50 goals faster then any rookie not named Bure too.  EP IS hard.  Two years in a row he started strong then faded over the course of the season.    Larionov probably should get in before EP - but won't.   Think he should be in the late 40's....and still he will bump someone out who's spent a lot more time with us.  Like Aucion or Murzyn.   

Yeah 40's sounds about right.  I haven't started to think about him as a nomination just yet.  I fully expect EP to rocket up this list over the next several years but we aren't there yet.  

Such a bummer that we got coronavirused out of the rest of this season.

[IBatch]

38 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

Yeah 40's sounds about right.  I haven't started to think about him as a nomination just yet.  I fully expect EP to rocket up this list over the next several years but we aren't there yet.  

Such a bummer that we got coronavirused out of the rest of this season.

Ughh... you got that right.  The tension as we watched our team slip away - mostly by one goal (and the odd EN goal) games was palpable.  I really believed we would have turned it around in a great Canuck moment - then went on and really made it difficult for whomever we played first - maybe even won a round.  Markstrom and BB getting injured was the edge we lost - and they were back or soon coming back for the final 10-14 games for sure.   The most exciting season we have had in a long time.  I've stated over and over again that both BB and EP are destined for greatness on this team - have made my peace with this season now am just hoping the next one isn't interrupted as well.   EP is a special player.  He never had a personal trainer or hockey skills coach - hes' 100% self taught the same way Lafluer was coming from a town where those things weren't available ... instead he had infinite ice time on his own to hone his skills - and the results are something new (which after 100 years is hard to imagine).  Once his body catches up to his brain - the sky's the limit....never heard Wayne Gretzky ever compare himself to anyone before him...and doubt we will see anyone have the first three months he had as a rookie for a long time. .....  QH's....well the sky's the limit with him too.    Coroovirus#Canuck Luck....at somepoint this crap has just got to change...#Otto kicked it in # Brashear # Bertuzzi  # number 2 pick # riots # Please god let this stop!  Ha ha.