Naslund's Jersey Retirement

[-AJ-]

19 minutes ago, Dr.BRR said:

These were all my points when I was discussing it the other night. I get his playoff success was minimal, but if you have these stats beside your name how are you not going to be retired.  he said they were ROH worthy but not rafters.  Anybody else know if the ROH is just a Canuck thing or do a few teams have it now.

 

He was saying Tanti deserves the rafters before Nassy, but like I said early that goes back to when he grew up watching hockey and Tanti meant more to him than Nassy.

Tanti was great and probably underrated by many, but he wasn't putting up numbers as good as Naslund and he played in a far more offensive era during the late 80s. If he's so gung ho about playoff success, ask him about how Tanti had only one playoff goal in 18 games and 10 points. That's a 0.55 points-per-game. Naslund had 33 points in 45 games for a .733 points-per-game, and in a far more defensive era. Naslund was essentially everything Tanti was, but better except Tanti maybe had a bit more of a physical edge.

[HKSR]

27 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Don’t forget Bob Gainey.  You know with his 40ish points per year and all. 

• Frank J. Selke Trophy winner in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981.
• Selected to the NHL All-Star Game in 1977, 1978, 1980, 1981.
• Conn Smythe Trophy winner in 1979.
• Stanley Cup championships in 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1986 (as Player), 1999 (as GM).
• Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1992.
• In 1998, Gainey was ranked number 86 on The Hockey News' list of the 100 Greatest Hockey Players.

Let me know which of those Stan Smyl accomplished.

[HKSR]

54 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Wendel Clark - TOR (Original 6) -- I'll give you this one... probably didn't need a jersey retirement

Bob Nystrom - NYI -- integral part of 4-time Stanley Cup championship wins

Butch Goring -- integral part of 4-time Stanley Cup championship wins and Conn Smythe winner

Terry O'Reilly - BOS (Original 6) -- basically if Gino Odjick had a scoring touch.  Also can you imagine a player retiring and then right away becoming the team's head coach?  That's Terry O'Reilly.  Even then, it took until 2002 before his jersey was retired so it wasn't without some thought. 

Bill Goldsworthy - MIN/DAL - played in 4 all star games

Adam Graves - NYR (Original 6) - bit of a stretch, but he was a 2nd all star for his 52 goal season, and also integral in the 94 cup

Dale Hunter - WAS

 

 

If you open it up to other eras...

 

Shane Doan

Vic Hadfield

Jere Lehtinen

etc.

 

I stuck to forwards and didn't even list any defensemen, including low-scoring ones such as Ken Daneyko, Keith Magnuson, Chris Phillips...

 

Brian Sutter is retired in St. Louis and has similar numbers to Smyl with no run to the finals.

I'll give you some of those, but a lot of these guys won NHL awards, Stanley Cups, etc. 

Stan Smyl really didn't accomplish anything significant on the ice other than the 1982 cup final run.  He didn't even play in a single all star game lol

 

 

[IBatch]

Just now, HKSR said:

• Frank J. Selke Trophy winner in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981.
• Selected to the NHL All-Star Game in 1977, 1978, 1980, 1981.
• Conn Smythe Trophy winner in 1979.
• Stanley Cup championships in 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1986 (as Player), 1999 (as GM).
• Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1992.
• In 1998, Gainey was ranked number 86 on The Hockey News' list of the 100 Greatest Hockey Players.

Let me know which of those Stan Smyl accomplished.

So I get it - your not a fan of Smyl - all 5’7” and 175lbs of him that would do anything for his team too.  Ugh.  If he played on the Islanders or Oilers he’d be posting Glen Anderson numbers.   I’d take him on my team before Naslund  - but hey continue your dialogue. 

[HKSR]

Just now, IBatch said:

So I get it - your not a fan of Smyl - all 5’7” and 175lbs of him that would do anything for his team too.  Ugh.  If he played on the Islanders or Oilers he’d be posting Glen Anderson numbers.   I’d take him on my team before Naslund  - but hey continue your dialogue. 

Don't misunderstand me.  I'm a fan of Smyl, I just don't think his jersey should have been retired.  ROH definitely.  Jersey retirement was a stretch.  Almost felt like our franchise was just trying to fit in with all the other teams and have a jersey retired.

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I'll give you some of those, but a lot of these guys won NHL awards, Stanley Cups, etc. 

Stan Smyl really didn't accomplish anything significant on the ice other than the 1982 cup final run.  He didn't even play in a single all star game lol

 

 

LOL  .. really the disrespect is pretty uncalled for.   First you make it about the points - then your called out about it and then make little remarks next to each player that he  outscored, now it’s funny?  I’d give you a shovel but you started with one when you mentioned Smyl is undeserving and instead rented a backhoe with your replies. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by IBatch

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

LOL  .. really the disrespect is pretty uncalled for.   First you make it about the points - then your called out about it and then make little remarks next to each player that outscored him now it’s funny?  I’d give you a shovel but you started with one when you mentioned Smyl is undeserving and instead rented a backhoe with your replies. 

What disrespect?  Even in my original reply I said he should have definitely been acknowledged, just that the jersey retirement was a bit too far.  Nothing other than the fact he really didn't accomplish anything over and above to get a jersey number retired IMO.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

What disrespect?  Even in my original reply I said he should have definitely been acknowledged, just that the jersey retirement was a bit too far.  Nothing other than the fact he really didn't accomplish anything over and above to get a jersey number retired IMO.

It was the “not even in an all-star game lol” comment that pricks me the most.    I’m sure Phillips and Sutter meant something to their franchise...and back then the Oilers hogged up to ten spots a year .... wonder if in 20 or so years someone will look at Lindens stats too and wonder why his number is retired.  It is what it is - Smyl and his family meant a lot to Vancouver for a long time - at least we don’t have cup banners hanging in the rafters like OTT right?  Don’t sweat it - I probably should have just not hit submit reply.  

[beni]

They shouldng be retiring and more jerseys any time soon. Too many already

[HC20.0]

I grew up watching Naslund, so maybe I’m a bit biased, but I think Naslund deserves to be up in the rafters. You can definitely make the lack of playoff success argument, however Naslund brought a lot of respectability back to Vancouver after the Messier/Keenan debacle. The Canucks were a joke before the WCE took over the league. Not only that, Nazzy was DOMINANT in his prime. Arguably the best player in the NHL for three years. Naslund dominated offensively in one of the worst scoring eras too. 

[NexusRift]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

The problem isn't Nazzy.  The problem is the bar was set really low with Stan Smyl.  Yes he was a heart and soul type player, but other than Vancouver, what other team ever mentions Smyl anymore when referring to the Canucks? 

 

When people in the industry talk about the Canucks, it is always Linden, Bure, and the Sedins.  Those 4 stand out above all the rest. 

IMHO, only players of outstanding accomplishment should have their numbers retired. 99, 9, 66 and 4. Obviously, that's for the whole league. That being said........

 

When exactly did number retirement become a thing for individual teams?

[NexusRift]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

The problem isn't Nazzy.  The problem is the bar was set really low with Stan Smyl.  Yes he was a heart and soul type player, but other than Vancouver, what other team ever mentions Smyl anymore when referring to the Canucks? 

 

When people in the industry talk about the Canucks, it is always Linden, Bure, and the Sedins.  Those 4 stand out above all the rest. 

IMHO, only players of outstanding accomplishment should have their numbers retired. 99, 9, 66 and 4. Obviously, that's for the whole league. That being said........

 

When exactly did number retirement become a thing for individual teams?

[Standing_Tall#37]

6 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Smyl stands out as substantially above Bure when it comes to whether anyone should ever wear his number again on a Canucks jersey.

 

 

I dunno, Bure was 3rd all time for goals per game in nhl history. His scoring clip is higher than ovechkin’s even. Had he not had only 1/2 a career, his stats would be vastly higher and his legacy in the NHL would be much more respected League-wide.

 

 I think there should only be 3 numbers in the rafters and arguably only 2 in GM place. 33,22 and maybe 10.

 

we have the same amount of retired numbers as teams who had players that were instrumental in winning them multiple cups 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Standing_Tall#37

[Kevin Biestra]

4 hours ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

I dunno, Bure was 3rd all time for goals per game in nhl history. His scoring clip is higher than ovechkin’s even. Had he not had only 1/2 a career, his stats would be vastly higher and his legacy in the NHL would be much more respected League-wide.

 

 I think there should only be 3 numbers in the rafters and arguably only 2 in GM place. 33,22 and maybe 10.

 

we have the same amount of retired numbers as teams who had players that were instrumental in winning them multiple cups 

 

What you are describing as your criteria for a retired number are my criteria for the Hall of Fame.

 

Retiring a number is about contribution to, leadership for and representation of the team and city, if you ask me.  Yes, you certainly need to excel at the game of hockey, but it takes something else to say nobody should ever wear your number again.

[Standing_Tall#37]

3 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

What you are describing as your criteria for a retired number are my criteria for the Hall of Fame.

 

Retiring a number is about contribution to, leadership for and representation of the team and city, if you ask me.  Yes, you certainly need to excel at the game of hockey, but it takes something else to say nobody should ever wear your number again.

     That is why Buffalo and us will be the laughing stock of the league for quite some time. I think what you’re describing is actually my criteria for ring of honour members. 

[Kevin Biestra]

16 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

     That is why Buffalo and us will be the laughing stock of the league for quite some time. I think what you’re describing is actually my criteria for ring of honour members. 

 

If you think retiring the jersey of a guy that played 13 years for your team, captained the team to a Cup final and retired as the all-time franchise record holder in everything...  Never mind, screw it.

[The Colt 45s]

On 5/8/2020 at 12:41 AM, Pears said:

I think something we can all agree on is the Sedins will be the last jersey retirements we have for a very long time. And if we’re being completely honest (I’m saying this with Nazzy being my favourite player growing up), the only players who should be in the rafters are the Sedins, Linden and Bure. 

They are the last ones until EP, QH, and BB play many, many years in Vancouver.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, The Colt 45s said:

They are the last ones until EP, QH, and BB play many, many years in Vancouver.

 

We'll see.  If Edler gets to 1,000 games there might be some discussion.

[NexusRift]

13 hours ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

I dunno, Bure was 3rd all time for goals per game in nhl history. His scoring clip is higher than ovechkin’s even. Had he not had only 1/2 a career, his stats would be vastly higher and his legacy in the NHL would be much more respected League-wide.

 

 I think there should only be 3 numbers in the rafters and arguably only 2 in GM place. 33,22 and maybe 10.

 

we have the same amount of retired numbers as teams who had players that were instrumental in winning them multiple cups 

After looking at this:       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vancouver_Canucks_players

 

I would say my line of thinking regarding this goes with the quote as above. In so much as the achievements of Nazzy and Trev's with our 'Nucks is substantial, they pale in comparison to the league wide achievements of 33, 22, and 10. The last sentence above says it all.

 

I realize individual team's have impressionable, beloved players who have nurtured memories of past glories, and the trend to honour them via number retirement seems, at least in part, a practice to keep season ticket sales strong. I guess ya' gotta give your fans their fleets of fancy, huh.

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, NexusRift said:

After looking at this:     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vancouver_Canucks_players

 

I would say my line of thinking regarding this goes with the quote as above. In so much as the achievements of Nazzy and Trev's with our 'Nucks is substantial, they pale in comparison to the league wide achievements of 33, 22, and 10. The last sentence above says it all.

 

I realize individual team's have impressionable, beloved players who have nurtured memories of past glories, and the trend to honour them via number retirement seems, at least in part, a practice to keep season ticket sales strong. I guess ya' gotta give your fans their fleets of fancy, huh.

 

The only jersey retirement I've ever seen that I would call a ticket sales ploy is Jeremy Roenick in Phoenix, and those guys would retire Pat Jablonski's jersey if they thought it meant they could sell another $50 worth of hot dogs at the concession that night.

 

The league has a good number of retired jerseys where the player is honored for long service, great leadership and team heroics where the player would probably not get into the Hall of Fame.  Brian Sutter, etc.  And there's a reason why Hall of Famers like Larry Murphy and Mark Recchi and Dino Ciccarelli probably don't get their jerseys retired anywhere, because they never settled down in a city and both stewarded the team and captured the heart of the city for a decade or so.

 

I don't know why you seem to want to conflate the two different honors.  If you don't get why Stan Smyl or Trevor Linden belong in the rafters, it's like you haven't felt the pulse of the team for the last 40 years.