DSVII

Let's wait till EOD when all moves are in first. Disappointed with motte, but that's the price we paid for waiting to the last minute while we tried and make a 9% playoff chance work.

The story is changing....ever so slowly.

It's only been three months. You can't reverse the trend of 8 years overnight. Give the new regime some more runway first.

This is a results driven business. You need to forecast where you will be going forward. Would you take him on your team today for the next 5 years at 10 mil? You gotta have perspective when evaluating your team One great run in a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic conditions does not equal sustained success in a regular season. As our bubble run and the Habs today show.

Not completely insane, but you must trade one of OEL, Myers or Boeser to facilitate keeping JT. That 8x8 SJ gave to Hertl doesn't give me any comfort either, so unless JT is on board for a discount I'm for trading him.

The $10 million goalies will age poorly, and in Price's case, has aged poorly (Bobrovsky and Price)

The effort put into this post is about the level of my expectations this deadline. I'm okay if nothing happens, the important thing is how we approach the cap in the offseason.

Where's the church of petey guy!

I'd like to think Green's permissive system that gave up so many high danger chances Tanev had to block may have had something to do with that

Someone resurrect one of the Myers stats threads to remind me haha

You gotta try really hard to get down to Jack Edwards level of hack

That's fine haha we can have a difference of opinion, I don't even listen to 650 anymore so not even sure what that segment said. I guess it just comes down to the nub of it, who do you think stole more games for their respective teams? McDavid or Demko? I think you can make the case that players like Shesterkin and Demko have been saving their teams more than McDavid and Matthews have been outscoring their team's problems. But there's so many nuances to consider it isn't worth our time to go over it. And yeah, was at the game last night, those goals weren't Demko's fault. Maybe one of them, but the rest was defensive breakdowns. And yes The team definitely is rounding out. Loving what Boudreau has brought to the team. But there's still a visible hole in the team on the RHD side this season, I'm cautiously optimistic this season. but it's keeping the whole gang together for the next year that's got me concerned. But I'm confident we'll find a way.

We still need to solve for Boeser's raise and JT's extension. We are definitely losing someone this offseason if Boeser doesn't take a discount (I too hope, Boeser signs an extension $1.25 mil below his qualifying offer. It would go a long way to helping us out.) Considering we still have that $3.4 mil in dead cap from Holtby, Virtanen and Halak next year Someone's gonna walk, and even your scenario had Poolman being traded. I don't think anyone's going to bite on a $2.5 mil 3rd pairing RHD. Or Jason Dickinson. Could be wrong, but they aren't attractive trade pieces.

Taking Demko out of the line up disproportionately hurts the team more than say, losing Horvat or Boeser. If either of those guys miss a game, we still have a chance, if Halak is in net, it's basically a write off. Or to quantify it, the value Demko is earning above his $5 mil cost is substantially higher than the extra value Bo is giving us at $5.3 mil when it comes to generating wins. Markstrom and Demko covered up a lot of the issues this team had. I'm willing to bet Tampa can still do damage without Vasi. They play a good system. Just watching the habs game last night, we dominated them sure, but we also gave a 30th place team a heck of a lot of premium chances where the guy was alone in front of the net. Despite our expensive defense. That's where that argument comes from.

That price is literally bordering almost worth keeping him. But in the long term I'd like to see what he can get us next TDL.

The 2014 team that Gillis left Benning with transforms between 'nothing of value' that was passed on to the next GM to 'too good to tank' depending on whatever fits the narrative of the day to justify the last 8 years of bungling. And yes, there were NTCs on that team, some were even traded. That 100 pt team is an asset in itself. Did people here forget the calls for Nonis to trade pieces of the core because people thought they couldn't cut it? The team missed playoffs two of the three seasons post-lockout and the Sedins were set to be UFAs before Gillis and Gilman flew over to Sweden to convince them to re-sign. And people act like this core was neatly bundled together and gift wrapped for management. As the oilers show, it's one thing to inherit a core of elite players, it's entirely another task to make a team with that core that can go far. Frick man, I lost my patience with Gillis in 2013, especially in light of some of the win now trades as posted in the OP but the more the Pro-Benning guys make me look back on what he's done the more I think ive been too harsh on Gillis. I think back to our new analytics hire. It's like comparing a guy that plays chess with a guy gluing macaroni pieces on construction paper.

I think you need another cat sandwich Alf

None of these moves really move the needle and are all peripheral. You need to be stockpiling picks in the top 100 to make a difference and even when we do, we flip them for immediate help. The individual wins are fine, but Benning's real failure in trades is his failure to accumulate value in the big picture over the long run. He has a reverse paper clip to house method of trading. You start with assets like Kesler, Bieksa and your default draft picks. You trade the two and acquire a good base to build off of: 1.) Bonino, 1st (McCann), low 2nd, Sbisa, Forsling (drafteed), High 2nd (where we could have had Debrincat/Kyrou) You then convert that into: 2.) Sutter, Gudbranson, Clendenning Which in the end we're left with 3.) Sutter, Pearson. If Benning had a wallet. He essentially traded a $5 bill for two toonies, then the two toonies for one toonie, which depreciated into three quarters. He then traded the three quarters for a loonie. When we started off with an asset worth $5. And you're praising him for that? The strategic view of this trade, is he took a high 2nd and McCann (two potential top six assets) and turned it into a serviceable top 9 player. That is a huge failure. Benning failed to acquire enough picks or prospects to make up for the deficit he created himself. Let's not forget his futures for help now trades when he started 2nd for Sven Baerschi (the 2nd became a top 4 D playing on Calgary right now) 2nd for Linden Vey 3rd for Dorsett 3rd for Pedan Kassian and a 5th for Brandon Prust His proper rebuild to reverse that trend consists of acquiring what? A 4th and Goldobin for Hansen? It was simply not enough to dig out of the misses he had. How many drafts from 2016-2019 have the Canucks ended with more than their 7 alloted picks in the draft? 2016 was a wasteland because Benning froze at trade deadline yet again. From a prospect pool standpoint, people seem to think that Benning was trying to claw his way out of a hole Gillis made, but in actual fact, he was digging deeper into that hole for three years, then realized he had to dig his way up, but half heartedly used a spoon instead while trying to flounder with his playoffs mentality. ----------- As for the rest... Sure, good stuff 3rd and 7th for Lack (dumping players for picks) 2nd for Bieksa (dumping player for pick) - this pick was later flipped to get Sutter. Not used in the draft. Dahlen for Burrows (prospect for dumping vet) Goldobin and 4th for Hansen (prospect and pick for dumping vet) Motte and Jokinen for Vanek (prospect for dumping vet) - I preferred a pick though, but motte is good. Karlsson for Dahlen (prospect for prospect) Window dressing Granlund for Shinkaruk... (see above) 7th for McNally (dumping player for pick) Etem and Jensen swap... (2 young players that needed new starts) Pouliot for Pedan and 4th (ok, this was kinda pointless, probably shouldn't have been made) Mckenna, Pyatt, 6th for Archibald, Nilsson (younger replacements plus a pick) Schenn, 7th for Del Zotto (replacement plus pick) Mazanec for 7th (ok, he gave up a pick here, but for a prospect) Spooner for Gagner (again, another pointless move he shouldn't have made) Ugh Gudbranson and 5th for McCann, 2nd, 4th (yup, this was a dumb one... I'll give you that) Wish he targeted a different asset than Sbisa/Bonino, like Shea Theodore who Anaheim let walk in the expansion draft 3rd and Sutter for 2nd, Bonino, Clendening (we needed a defensive 3C to allow Horvat to develop, so this wasn't exactly a surprise) - We let cheaper options walk because Benning wanted his guy Non-Trades Hamhuis Vrbata Ryan Miller (in hindsight (i wanted to keep them)) Markstrom Tanev Stecher Toffoli From a salary cap standpoint, Benning really made some asymetrical trades in the opposing team's favor, giving value when he had the leverage and indirectly playing a part in helping opposing GMs assemble their super teams. Isn't it a funny coincidence that the last two back-to-back cup winners in the salary cap era got premium value for a soon-to-be overpriced 3C from Benning they were going to lose to free agency anyway? Then leverage what they got from us to help take them over the hump? Pittsburgh : Bonino completed their 3rd line with Kessel at $2 mil cap hit Tampa: Flipped the 1st from JT Miller to get Blake Coleman at $1.8 mil cap hit You can win the battle, and lose the war. Benning didn't have any strategic thinking beyond 'making the playoffs at all costs'.

Guy started two seasons ago. And he's already got two calder candidates this year in Lucas Raymond and Moritz Seider. You say this knowing that no one will hold you to account 2-3 seasons from now, which will still be the just the halfway point of Benning's tenure. I'm willing to bet Detroit makes the playoffs before Benning made it in his year six on a technicality. (and no, 2015 is from what he inherited from Gillis and the Sedins. Like you said, what came before matters).

The point was in the first and last sentence. A rebuild could have been done with the Sedins at 14 million. Their NMCs would not have gotten in the way of a rebuild or prevent Benning from pursuing one. Benning had the choice, he chose to compete and mortgage the future. The core was drafted with the default picks that the league provides every GM every year but Benning hasn't done anything above that (bringing in more picks) to actually do a proper rebuild to supplement that core. Demko and Petey for sure I think props are given, Hughes was the consensus BPA. Still, I can give you a hockey magazine and Benning's 1st round picks for those same years, and have you step up to the podium you can come up with a similar core, one that most likely also includes Tkachuk. It's how you construct the team around the core and ensure a steady pipeline of prospects that make you a Tampa Bay. The point though is if we had truly rebuilt, stocked picks and yes 'tanked' a bit, that core could have been a bit better. I love Petey and Hughes but you could have had a shot at players like Barzal, Matthews, Makar, Tkachuk, Dahlin, Svechnikov rather than winning meaningless games in March when we were statistically eliminated. Benning never put himself in a position to be lucky or have opportunities fall his way. Also, Benning had 8 years. Personally, I'd say he had 5, the mandate was a retool when he joined up till the 2015 playoff mirage. 2016 should have been the start. And yet he didn't rebuild, he kept mortgaging the future and kicking the can down the road. Even if I go by your standard, what did he do with those three years post Sedins? Trade away two 1sts (an unprotected 1st that thankfully paid off) and a 2nd and capped out the team with UFAs while finishing bottom 10 in the league. The truth is that the core alone isn't good enough. And Benning created a cap situation where even if the team did succeed (and by succeed, the low bar of making playoffs), it would be for a very short window.

You can rebuild with the Sedins here. No one but the most avid scorched earth enthusiasts were calling for their trade. The twins even mentioned that they were fully supportive of being mentors for new players during a rebuild. LA managed to deepen their prospect pool with Kopitar, Quick and Doughty on their books. Anaheim still accumulated assets with Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler. Rangers still traded for extra picks after committing $20 million to Panarin and Trouba. This NMC narrative is the reddest of herrings. A rebuilding team and the Sedins are not mutually exclusive.

I'd argue the 2020 bubble run, where we qualified on a technicality and went on a run, was the more disastrous mirage from a long term strategic level. As a fan, that small 8-0-1 was great just to see competent hockey again. Remember 2020 when JB traded an unprotected 1st, as well as our 2nd and Madden away while we were sitting out of a playoff spot with Markstrom and Tanev still injured? It's great that Miller returned the value but covid gave this team the rest and opportunity needed and management didn't see the bigger picture of this team there. At the very least, Management has no illusions about what this team is. We aren't going all in this year for playoffs.

Benning's 2020 offseason failure is now complete: https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/transactions-signings-trades/2022/2/14/22933257/montreal-canadiens-trade-tyler-toffoli-to-the-calgary-flames-habs-emil-heineman-pitlick-draft-picks I've said it before, and i'll say it again. The day JB lost his job, our divisional rivals lost their best ally.

Time and place for everything, even with Sidney Crosby, Penns didn't start the consident trend of trading their first rounders till like 2013, 8 years after drafting their generational talent. They still had to stock the cupboards before making a push. And they were securely making playoffs consistently when they were trading those picks. Benning was emptying the cupboards at an alarming rate as soon as he hit on Hughes and Petey just to try and trading 1sts to try and claw our way out of the bottom 10 in standings. It was in no way sustainable in the long run.

Canucks Fans, Day 0 of the new GM's job: