A Game Of Thrones: To the point of the TV show, no spoilers beyond that

[Hugor Hill]

9 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

ok boys, gotta get up at 5am... we shall continue. Can't wait till next episode. it should be a gooder..

 

9 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Well at least we are in agreement of that.

 

good talking.

I lean slightly towards WHL's position as I believe that Sansa believed that Littlefinger would come through as Sansa knew that Littlefinger is obsessed about her. Also, she was awfully confident about winning the battle:

 

"You are going to die tomorrow Lord Bolton. Sleep well."

 

Go back to earlier in the season when Sansa met up with Baelish in Mole's Town. She didn't even tell Jon about that. Littlefinger and his Knights of the Vale belong to Sansa, as far as she is concerned. And if she had told Jon about them, they wouldn't be 'hers' any more. 

 

Sansa wants power for herself. She can't rely on Jon alone.

 

Next season, or sometime in the future, I expect her to dispose of Baelish one way or another.

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Hugor Hill

[Shift-4]

10 hours ago, theminister said:

Here's a twist... with Ramsay gone there isn't really a main antagonist anymore aside from the Night's King and Cersei.

 

I think Sansa takes that role in step with Littlefinger, and turns to the dark side of the force.

Interesting thoughts.

Watch her become Joffrey

 

I was just about to come in and say this series is now in desperate need of a good villain. Either someone new is introduced, someone current becomes evil or all our favourites battle it out and we are left to choose sides.

 

Or perhaps everyone bands together to battle the White Walkers. 

 

Can't wait for the last episode to lay down some hints.

[RUPERTKBD]

There's still the Frey/Lannister army at Riverrun to consider. Jaime wants nothing more than to get back to KL, but he's not really wanted there.

 

Walder Frey can't be comfortable knowing that a Stark is back in Winterfell and she has The Vale and 1000+ Wildlings at her disposal. We probably won't see anything done this season, but at some point in the future it will need to be resolved.

 

Next week, I'm looking forward to Davos confronting Red Mel about Shireen....

[Canorth]

11 hours ago, theminister said:

Here's a twist... with Ramsay gone there isn't really a main antagonist anymore aside from the Night's King and Cersei.

 

I think Sansa takes that role in step with Littlefinger, and turns to the dark side of the force.

Euron Greyjoy will fill the void nicely. And there's always the Late Walder Frey.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Canorth

[Down by the River]

I don't think Sansa will become a villain, but she certainly will become more deceptive/duplicitous. She got to see firsthand at King's Landing how Margery and Olena worked a room without having to resort to violence. I don't think Sansa will be as virtuous as Dany, but certainly won't be willing to cut people's throats to get ahead either. 

 

I don't see Sansa and Jon going head-to-head because its unlikely that they want the same things. They'll disagree about things but I don't see them competing for the same goal.

[RUPERTKBD]

4 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

I don't think Sansa will become a villain, but she certainly will become more deceptive/duplicitous. She got to see firsthand at King's Landing how Margery and Olena worked a room without having to resort to violence. I don't think Sansa will be as virtuous as Dany, but certainly won't be willing to cut people's throats to get ahead either. 

 

I don't see Sansa and Jon going head-to-head because its unlikely that they want the same things. They'll disagree about things but I don't see them competing for the same goal.

I tend to agree, however, there is a small chance that the come to odds in the coming seasons. 

 

Right now, Jon is still a bastard and has no chance of becoming Lord of Winterfell. However, assuming that at some point, he meets up with Dany (and assuming that she accomplishes her goal of becoming queen of the Seven Kingdoms), he has a chance of being legitimized. Remember when Stannis offered him the stark name? He was definitely tempted...

[Down by the River]

7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I tend to agree, however, there is a small chance that the come to odds in the coming seasons. 

 

Right now, Jon is still a bastard and has no chance of becoming Lord of Winterfell. However, assuming that at some point, he meets up with Dany (and assuming that she accomplishes her goal of becoming queen of the Seven Kingdoms), he has a chance of being legitimized. Remember when Stannis offered him the stark name? He was definitely tempted...

Jon could definitely fall into that protective/patronizing older brother trap, which would irritate the hell out of Sansa. The episode 10 preview is out now and there is a scene with those two. 

 

Jon kisses Sansa's forehead and talks about needing to stick together, which may go against Sansa's desire for a little more independence after being basically a slave for several years

[riffraff]

I don't think Jons objective is to be lord of winterfell.  Right now his goal seems to be defeating the white walkers while ensuring that winterfell is secure.

 

perhaps if and when both goals have been achieved I could see him  being the lords hand and kicking back with a wildling wife.

[taxi]

47 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I don't think Jons objective is to be lord of winterfell.  Right now his goal seems to be defeating the white walkers while ensuring that winterfell is secure.

 

perhaps if and when both goals have been achieved I could see him  being the lords hand and kicking back with a wildling wife.

Jon is more the type that gets made the leader by others and doesn't necessarily pursue it himself. For example, he didn't join the Night's Watch with the intention of becoming Lord Commander. 

 

Regardless of what Jon's intentions are, Sansa must surely see him as a threat to her own attempts to rule. Even without a decree, he'd be potentially able to rally and lead an army.

[Guest]

The arrival of Arya will stir up the relationship. She loves Jon, and hated Sansa.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Guest

[soshified]

Jon needs to be Lord of Winterfell now. He needs to be in a leader position so that he can easily recruit people for the fight against the White Walkers.

[canuckistani]

4 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I tend to agree, however, there is a small chance that the come to odds in the coming seasons. 

 

Right now, Jon is still a bastard and has no chance of becoming Lord of Winterfell. However, assuming that at some point, he meets up with Dany (and assuming that she accomplishes her goal of becoming queen of the Seven Kingdoms), he has a chance of being legitimized. Remember when Stannis offered him the stark name? He was definitely tempted...

Its possible. Though isn't Lady Lyanna Mormont also a female head of the house ? 
Do remember that the North has always been different- they are the 'first men' and though they adopted the customs and ways of the Andals, perhaps female leadership is something they've always had, maybe as a 'last resort' as opposed to 'losing the name altogether, like the House Reyne of Castermere'. 

 

The Sansa-Jon Snow angle is interesting but i got a feeling he is destined for Dany. Jon, particularly the more circumspect Jon since resurrection, is a perfect compliment for Dany and her mercurial personality. 

The 'Sansa kills everything coz she is going to be ruthless' angle has another problem: right now, she thinks that she is the only Stark alive. Sure, Jon is her brother and she loves him and all that, but he is not a Stark- not yet. So perhaps her 'i am the last one' ruthlessless, is going to melt away once (if) she realizes that Arya and Bran are alive. 

 

Technically, Winterfell belongs to Bran. Ofcourse, it is up to the show and Martin, but he is basing his legal framework from medieval England in most case ( the interactions of bigger and lesser great houses, inheritances, etc) and IIRC, in the old English law, once Robb died, the title fell to Bran by default, as Jon is not legally legitimate and title cannot be lost due to post-legitimizing of an older illegitimate child after the fact. 

PS: Though it would also be concievable that a crippled man with the power to time-travel via weirwood trees, would prefer doing that, instead of day to day management of illiterate buffoons and thugs that is their society, who would need a lot of 'neck snipping' to be convinced that this comely little cripple lad means business. Not Bran's style either. 

Then there is also Arya. She is far more Dany-esque and a strong woman from the get-go, who is far more decisive, better at it (her move to go to Braavos on the spot is a stroke of genius that Sansa would've shat herself over for) and she not only can straight up KO sansa in a second, she most probably would be a better ruler. Sure, Sansa has 'intrigue ability' that Arya does not, but once she ghosts 2-3 lords in a whorehouse or their beds, she is going to be too badass to mess with by reputation, thus largely nullifying threat from other lords and schemers. 

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by canuckistani

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, canuckistani said:

Its possible. Though isn't Lady Lyanna Mormont also a female head of the house ? 
Do remember that the North has always been different- they are the 'first men' and though they adopted the customs and ways of the Andals, perhaps female leadership is something they've always had, maybe as a 'last resort' as opposed to 'losing the name altogether, like the House Reyne of Castermere'. 

 

The Sansa-Jon Snow angle is interesting but i got a feeling he is destined for Dany. Jon, particularly the more circumspect Jon since resurrection, is a perfect compliment for Dany and her mercurial personality. 

The 'Sansa kills everything coz she is going to be ruthless' angle has another problem: right now, she thinks that she is the only Stark alive. Sure, Jon is her brother and she loves him and all that, but he is not a Stark- not yet. So perhaps her 'i am the last one' ruthlessless, is going to melt away once (if) she realizes that Arya and Bran are alive. 

 

Technically, Winterfell belongs to Bran. Ofcourse, it is up to the show and Martin, but he is basing his legal framework from medieval England in most case ( the interactions of bigger and lesser great houses, inheritances, etc) and IIRC, in the old English law, once Robb died, the title fell to Bran by default, as Jon is not legally legitimate and title cannot be lost due to post-legitimizing of an older illegitimate child after the fact. 

PS: Though it would also be concievable that a crippled man with the power to time-travel via weirwood trees, would prefer doing that, instead of day to day management of illiterate buffoons and thugs that is their society, who would need a lot of 'neck snipping' to be convinced that this comely little cripple lad means business. Not Bran's style either. 

Then there is also Arya. She is far more Dany-esque and a strong woman from the get-go, who is far more decisive, better at it (her move to go to Braavos on the spot is a stroke of genius that Sansa would've shat herself over for) and she not only can straight up KO sansa in a second, she most probably would be a better ruler. Sure, Sansa has 'intrigue ability' that Arya does not, but once she ghosts 2-3 lords in a whorehouse or their beds, she is going to be too badass to mess with by reputation, thus largely nullifying threat from other lords and schemers. 

 

I think you basically touched on the truth of it here. As far as Sansa knows, she is the last Stark left alive and therefore is the heir to Winterfell, much as Lyanna is to Bear Island. I don't necessarily think she'll be ruthless like Cersei, but she's already started to play her cards close to the vest. In fact, she started doing so in the Vale, when she lied for Petyr to Lord Royce and the rest of the council.

 

Jon really isn't particularly ambitious when it comes to wanting power, however, if he ever does get together with Dany, (as many believe he eventually will) he'll have to be legitimized and will have to become Lord of Winterfell and very likely Warden of the North.

 

That could well be at odds with Sansa's plans and although I doubt that we'll see any tension manifest until next season at the earliest, there certainly is the potential for it to happen.

[*Buzzsaw*]

I used to like GoT for the reason it wasn't afraid to show the unvarnished truth of Medieval power politics and not afraid to let characters die.

 

But lately it has become a self-indulgent exercise in degrading and violent fetishes which clearly are just there because they tickle the author's fancies.

 

There is also a real lack of logic in the actions of the characters... as for example Jon Snow... could anyone this stupid really gain the loyalty of his followers... when he makes all the wrong choices, leading to a bloodbath and loss of most of his army?

 

Then there is the question of realistic wounding and injuries... we have now seen many examples of characters who clearly should be dead, who shrug off their wounds and bounce back... The Hound for example, or Arya Stark... since when does someone who takes a dagger in the intestines 4 or 5 times not develop sepsis from the stomach contents infecting the wounds?

 

The overall plot line has been dragged out and repeated ad nauseum... as for example Daenery's wanderings... first she finds a horde with which to re-conquer her kingdom, then she loses it, then she finds it again.  Same with her quest for a fleet...  It's clear the writer is just pulling plot out of his backside... anything to avoid coming to a conclusion and end to the series.  It's all about more episodes, more money now, not the story.

 

GoT has become a parody of itself.

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

16 hours ago, Captain Woodget said:

The arrival of Arya will stir up the relationship. She loves Jon, and hated Sansa.

I don't really agree with this.

 

All of the interaction we have so far seen between Arya and Sansa is that of the older sister, who is being groomed to be married off and the tomboy little sister, who sees Sansa as full of herself and her own concerns. Like many younger siblings, she resorts to teasing and generally being a pest to her older sister. However, I would not categorize Arya's feelings towards Sansa as "hate". In fact, if they are ever reunited, I'd bet we see just how much the two girls really do love each other.

 

Bear in mind that both girls have grown, both literally and figuratively.

[Tre Mac]

8 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't really agree with this.

 

All of the interaction we have so far seen between Arya and Sansa is that of the older sister, who is being groomed to be married off and the tomboy little sister, who sees Sansa as full of herself and her own concerns. Like many younger siblings, she resorts to teasing and generally being a pest to her older sister. However, I would not categorize Arya's feelings towards Sansa as "hate". In fact, if they are ever reunited, I'd bet we see just how much the two girls really do love each other.

 

Bear in mind that both girls have grown, both literally and figuratively.

I'd pay good money to watch that.  I agree I doubt she hates Sansa but she would definitely side with Jon if there ever was a conflict.  I hope they don't kill off Ghost next season and atleast make him a little more prominent.  I'd love to see Arya head to Riverrun to kill Walder Frey and find Nymeria and her pack(highly unlikely). 

[Kakanucks]

Was there any point in the show where it showed Sansa really cared for her siblings??

 

I mainly read the books, but catch an episode here and there. But was there much of a connection between Sansa and her siblings? Considering they were separated pretty much right in the beginning with her and Arya heading to KL with Ned.

 

BTW, just a general question, not trying to put down her character.

[Shift-4]

10 minutes ago, Kakanucks said:

Was there any point in the show where it showed Sansa really cared for her siblings??

 

I mainly read the books, but catch an episode here and there. But was there much of a connection between Sansa and her siblings? Considering they were separated pretty much right in the beginning with her and Arya heading to KL with Ned.

 

BTW, just a general question, not trying to put down her character.

Yup. She was really upset on the news of Robb's death.

[Hugor Hill]

28 minutes ago, Shift-4 said:

Yup. She was really upset on the news of Robb's death.

Yes, but that was season 3 Sansa.

 

Now we have season 6 Sansa.

 

Season 6 Sansa gives no f&%k.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Hugor Hill

[RUPERTKBD]

3 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

I'd pay good money to watch that.  I agree I doubt she hates Sansa but she would definitely side with Jon if there ever was a conflict.  I hope they don't kill off Ghost next season and atleast make him a little more prominent.  I'd love to see Arya head to Riverrun to kill Walder Frey and find Nymeria and her pack(highly unlikely). 

It's funny, because with the Targ's, (history of marrying brother to sister) Jaime and Cersei, Craster and his daughters and who knows what kind of inbreeding goes on at the Twins, House Stark is one of the few families where you wouldn't see that sort of thing. 

 

(Not that there's anything wrong with that. )