Robongo Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 What really grinds my gears is that as a leader of this team, not once has he stepped up and taken responsibility for his mistakes. He constantly says "we should have done this , we can't be doing that " , but when you're the guy time and time again with the horrible reads and ill advised pinches then you've got to own it at least once in a while. He never does and I wish our media guys would call him out on his mistakes and make him be accountable for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I can't get over people talking about "heart & soul" like it's some tangible, quantifiable thing. It's an abstract perception based on the actions of an individual. What you call "heart and soul" I call "work ethic". I don't care who the player is, every player has a shelf life, especially with a given team. Bieksa is long past his, just as Burrows and others are getting to theirs (yes, the Sedins too). The point is, having "heart & soul" or work ethic is all well and good, but when that becomes the only redeemable quality in a players game when they used to be known for defensive responsibility and point production (ie Two Way Player), it makes it increasingly difficult to keep that player around. People who point to Edmonton and their "lack of heart & soul players", no one wants to be in Edmonton. It's a terrible city in which to live, and unless you're from there, there's no good reason to BE there. Heart and soul/work ethic is inherent to a man, however in order to get the most out of that player that player must want to genuinely be on that team, and in that city. Bieksa does, and does, however that's not enough any longer to keep him in the upper echelon of defencemen based on skill and ability. Bieksa is skating on very thin ice, and unless he significantly picks up his play the rest of this season, and continues strong into next season, he will be gone at the trade deadline next season. Just to set things straight......most defensemen cominto the league needing to improve and they leave the same way....Bieksa should not be traded, because of his intangables, he should just be slid down the ranking on our team, less minutes and less responsibilities.......if he was playing a #5 or #6 he would be just like a Hal Gill, or Bryan Allen type of Dman Everybody should just stop ragging on him and give him a little respect.......what do you think another team would do to him....exactly that, put him in a #5 or #6 spot Well, that my opinion for what it is worth....Merry Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 What really grinds my gears is that as a leader of this team, not once has he stepped up and taken responsibility for his mistakes. He constantly says "we should have done this , we can't be doing that " , but when you're the guy time and time again with the horrible reads and ill advised pinches then you've got to own it at least once in a while. He never does and I wish our media guys would call him out on his mistakes and make him be accountable for once. And that is just BS......you have no idea what he says or thinks in the dressingroom..........he is not going to throw anyone under the bus........and he knows his mistakes..........no one will beat up Bieksa more than himself.......That is a leader, and that is why every team in the league would take him......and put him in that #5 or 6 spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 And that is just BS......you have no idea what he says or thinks in the dressingroom..........he is not going to throw anyone under the bus........and he knows his mistakes..........no one will beat up Bieksa more than himself.......That is a leader, and that is why every team in the league would take him......and put him in that #5 or 6 spot I'm not talking about in the dressing room, I'm talking about the media scrums. I've been saying he's a no 5 d man for a while now and people were getting their panties in a bunch and calling me an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Just to set things straight......most defensemen cominto the league needing to improve and they leave the same way....Bieksa should not be traded, because of his intangables, he should just be slid down the ranking on our team, less minutes and less responsibilities.......if he was playing a #5 or #6 he would be just like a Hal Gill, or Bryan Allen type of Dman Everybody should just stop ragging on him and give him a little respect.......what do you think another team would do to him....exactly that, put him in a #5 or #6 spot Well, that my opinion for what it is worth....Merry Christmas The crux of this argument imo rests solely on the fact that Gillis wrongfully estimated Bieksa's elite playing window, regardless of whether or not he (Gillis) anticipated being here through the end of the contract, when the term was awarded. In a constantly shifting league landscape, where the Canucks are perennially a cap team, having that 4.6M in cap tied up in a 5/6 defenceman becomes a difficult pill to swallow, given the obvious need in the T6, where 2/3 of Bieksa's cap hit (3.0M) could be better allocated. For what Bieksa brings to the table now, relative to his current salary cap for not just this season, but next seasons as well I think the money could be spent more efficiently; Bieksa is trending in the wrong direction. Yes the salary cap is projected to rise next year, but thats still not the point. Good UFA acquisitions are steadily rising every year and boat anchor contracts like this are killing the Canucks' ability to seriously enter the fray to acquire the depth they need until we can develop a continuous pipeline of skilled prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 trade bieska to don cherry for the name of his tailor and an autographed pic of his dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 2 more years at 4.6 million woooooo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 the only reason I'm for keeping bieksa over burrows is that we literally have no one capable of stepping into the third pairing who's even close to being on his level - says a lot about our organizational defensive depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 My reaction when Bieksa is on the ice with anyone but Hamhuis to cover for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Finally! HN in C finally admitting this game against NYR was his worst ever. No kidding ! He lost it years ago and it's been all downhill since. Put him out of his misery and trade him off to Florida for a bag of pucks! Unfortunately, he's the "guy who goes down with the ship" so it'll be hard to get him to waive... Easily our worst defence man this year. Even more than Sbisa and Weber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Well said guntrix and Shadowgoon summarized things perfectly - that there is no longer any value in Bieksa, as he is a complete liability. Management better start warming up to the reality that they will need to push those three old, worn-out 30+ y.o. severe liability players (Bieksa, Burrows and Hamusless) out to pasture in Florida by season's end (if not sooner) either thru force or embarrassment (like benching them or sending them down to Utica for some conditioning), because if they keep them until the end of their lengthy MG induced - NTC's we will not see any improvement in the overall product on the ice and in fact will see a continued decline in the teams overall performance and we'll continue to see the half empty seats midway thru the game like last night when the place emptied out midway thru the 2nd - which would have been unthinkable years ago and shows how Vancouverites have lost complete faith in this team. What a travesty and a legacy MG left us with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Come on CDC, the problem isn't with Bieksa.t is with the lack of defensive prospects for the last 5 years, there would be no one better than Bieksa to show the intangables to a up and coming prospect, "IF" he was a blue chip prospect. Can he help prospect that will be #4, 5, 6 themselves, probably not. But alot of higher end type of players could learn from Kevin's intangable's. Ask yourself the question, and never mind the cap hit for a minute, if Bieksa doesn't play like a 3 or 4, then where do you think other teams will play him, and why is he worth a 2 or 3rd round pick? It is because he brings something to the table, not alot of guys bring. He can't help that MG gave him a truck load of money..........would you think it fair if your boss took some one your pay back, or co-workers said your wern't worth what you are getting paid......how about if your customers came in and said get rid of you.....your not worth it........ Hey, you could be the best truck driver in the world, but if they got you trying to play the piano, well you suck..........and who's fault is that? The problem is that they have him playing the wrong number.....simple as that!..... really shouldn't be an arguement about that. Maybe if we had guys back checking harder, that ould help, or a different offensive scheme..........there are lots of reasons that a player might not be doing well, yes, including old age.......but you guys talk about one thing and don't admit the other reasons. Get another young dman, and put Bieksa in the 5 or 6 and you guys would love him again! The prospects we don't have are not his fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 "I'll go down with the ship" - Guy cutting a hole in the bottom of the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Janisahockeynut you raise an interesting angle to the Bieksa Fiasco issue, however with all due respect - Bieksa's shortcomings have little to do with being surrounded by prospects or his role as a mentor. It does however have everything to do with his poor playing abilities like last evening when he was pinching / playing too deep and abandoned his post causing 4 goals. And- what about during the only goal last night by the Canucks when the first man back to congratulate Bonino BEHIND THE NET was who else - but Bieksa. Did you not ask yourself how he beat 3 other forwards to be on the scene first BEHIND THE NET? That was another case of him playing too deep - which is NOT HIS JOB!!! That was a prime example of he's not paying attention and learning from and not giving a hoot about the other 4 costly mistakes he made earlier in the game - amongst many others. Is that the type of discipline and teaching you want a senior player to install in a rookie D? Please.......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Maybe trade Kassian or Burrows or Higgins plus to Pittsburgh for Despres........take some cap hit back????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Bieksa has been pretty brutal this season there is no denying that. I don't think it is all on him though. The coaching staff, partly out of reputation and partly out of necessity due to no other real options, keep playing him as a top 2 guy which he clearly isn't anymore. If Bieksa is going to be played in the top 2 then he needs to tone down the pinching and focus on defense. His decision making is off and his ability to recover from mistakes is dwindling as well. It is not often that one player can really be singled out in a team game but last night Bieksa was definitely a difference maker - for AV and the Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Janisahockeynut you raise an interesting angle to the Bieksa Fiasco issue, however with all due respect - Bieksa's shortcomings have little to do with being surrounded by prospects or his role as a mentor. It does however have everything to do with his poor playing abilities like last evening when he was pinching / playing too deep and abandoned his post causing 4 goals. And- what about during the only goal last night by the Canucks when the first man back to congratulate Bonino BEHIND THE NET was who else - but Bieksa. Did you not ask yourself how he beat 3 other forwards to be on the scene first BEHIND THE NET? That was another case of him playing too deep - which is NOT HIS JOB!!! That was a prime example of he's not paying attention and learning from and not giving a hoot about the other 4 costly mistakes he made earlier in the game - amongst many others. Is that the type of discipline and teaching you want a senior player to install in a rookie D? Please.......! This is not at you, just a question to your point. We do not know what Willie is asking him to do, we are assuming that Willie isn't asking that..........what if he is and Bieksa just can't do it. As for being behing the net, Willie's play could put him exactly there, we just don't know. Other than that, sometimes, you just find yourself there! I don't know, I see what everyone is saying, but again, he was signed for his past play, and contract always run the risk of paying too much, but usually, they are behind in what the players value is.....they are paying for potential too.......Keep in mind Edlers play just a little when trying to hang Bieksa out to dry, Edler was a lt younger with more upside and had a league worst +- last year..........Willie needs to adapt his sheme also...... What's the definition of insanity? Well that goes for Willie as well as Kevin..........you have to use the tools you have to do the job, not throw them away and "wish" you had something different, or "wish" you didn't pay too much........and then just stand there complaining......the job won't get done that way! Go get a young deman........pay the price...... or live with it!...........Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Bieksa has been pretty brutal this season there is no denying that. I don't think it is all on him though. The coaching staff, partly out of reputation and partly out of necessity due to no other real options, keep playing him as a top 2 guy which he clearly isn't anymore. If Bieksa is going to be played in the top 2 then he needs to tone down the pinching and focus on defense. His decision making is off and his ability to recover from mistakes is dwindling as well. It is not often that one player can really be singled out in a team game but last night Bieksa was definitely a difference maker - for AV and the Rangers. Bank on!......But you can't ask a 5 to pretend he is a 2......................he is a 5 because of all the above thing you expect him to do that he can't.....so who's wrong here??? And you can't build a piano with a screw driver and a hammer(Pardon the pun!)! Wrong tools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Point well taken and I hear what you're saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'm not talking about in the dressing room, I'm talking about the media scrums. I've been saying he's a no 5 d man for a while now and people were getting their panties in a bunch and calling me an idiot. Well "people" need to grab a little reality! Hey on Edmonton he would be a 2 or 3, on NYI's a 6 or 7....pretty wide range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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