Gross-Misconduct Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It took the Sedins about 6 years to become top line players, 7/8 years to become stars. I say we stay patient and keep encouraging Kass, I would like to see him be thrown a few more offensive minutes ex, after a penalty kill on the second line or on 2nd PP unit No doubt he's going to improve. But please don't compare him to the Sedins. Kassian will never be up for the Hart trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 not even close......he does far more good than bad. In fact, he's no more of a liability than any player currently in the lineup. You are speaking to one of the most oblivious posters on these boards. Nino is willfully blind where Kassian is concerned. 43% offensive zone starts, positive corsi on, (let alone being highly productive pp60),......no amount of objective reality, evidence that Kassian is in fact not a liability, knowledge the coaches have that ironically Nino is oblivious to - no amount of common sense is going to penetrate those blinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gross-Misconduct Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 You are speaking to one of the most oblivious posters on these boards. Nino is willfully blind where Kassian is concerned. 43% offensive zone starts, positive corsi on, (let alone being highly productive pp60),......no amount of objective reality, evidence that Kassian is in fact not a liability, knowledge the coaches have that ironically Nino is oblivious to - no amount of common sense is going to penetrate those blinders. OMG, look oldnews, they are talking about Kassian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 You are speaking to one of the most oblivious posters on these boards. Nino is willfully blind where Kassian is concerned. 43% offensive zone starts, positive corsi on, (let alone being highly productive pp60),......no amount of objective reality, evidence that Kassian is in fact not a liability, knowledge the coaches have that ironically Nino is oblivious to - no amount of common sense is going to penetrate those blinders. I'm so dam oblivious but yet the coaches have done as I've suggested.... We may not see eye to eye and you may not like what I say but I've got a better read on this then you. I'm not and never have said he doesn't have potential just that he has many holes that are holding him back and he is not a top six player yet. Too many fools like you are putting to much pressure on the kid, he needs at this point to be a bottom six player with no expectations to be playing with the twins by the end of the year like so many think. He needs to learn how to work and work his way off the line and until that point he's a utility player nothing more. Get over your hype buddy. Edit; how many of the goals so far this year was a result of blown coverage by zack? You need to learn a little more about hockey before you go pretending you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm so dam oblivious but yet the coaches have done as I've suggested.... We may not see eye to eye and you may not like what I say but I've got a better read on this then you. I'm not and never have said he doesn't have potential just that he has many holes that are holding him back and he is not a top six player yet. Too many fools like you are putting to much pressure on the kid, he needs at this point to be a bottom six player with no expectations to be playing with the twins by the end of the year like so many think. He needs to learn how to work and work his way off the line and until that point he's a utility player nothing more. Get over your hype buddy. Edit; how many of the goals so far this year was a result of blown coverage by zack? You need to learn a little more about hockey before you go pretending you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Ok so you talk tough but can't back it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Nino is willfully blind where Kassian is concerned. 43% offensive zone starts, positive corsi on, (let alone being highly productive pp60),......no amount of objective reality, evidence that Kassian is in fact not a liability, knowledge the coaches have that ironically Nino is oblivious to - no amount of common sense is going to penetrate those blinders. Ok so you talk tough but can't back it up? More ironing Nino. I started out by backing it up. Edit; how many of the goals so far this year was a result of blown coverage by zack? You need to learn a little more about hockey before you go pretending you do. Ok Nino, here's your chance to back up your tough talk. Why don't you chart these Kassian blown coverages leading to goals for us. Shouldn't be that hard - the team has only given up a total of 6. Surely they're traceable back to Kassian. You may have to get in line however, behind the Edler, Hansen, and Sbisa haters - they'll certainly want to take issue with you blaming it all on Kassian lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 More ironing Nino. I started out by backing it up. Ok Nino, here's your chance to back up your tough talk. Why don't you chart these Kassian blown coverages leading to goals for us. Shouldn't be that hard - the team has only given up a total of 6. Surely they're traceable back to Kassian. You may have to get in line however, behind the Edler, Hansen, and Sbisa haters - they'll certainly want to take issue with you blaming it all on Kassian lol. Lol true. Watch the game highlights and watch zacks position or lack there of on the goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Lol true. Watch the game highlights and watch zacks position or lack there of on the goals. Well done Nino. Don't bother putting anything at all into backing up your tough talk. Begging the question is always considered fool proof. Very convincing btw. You evidently thought hard, and worked even harder there. Tap out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Once Kassian figures out his consistency from game to game or even shift to shift then we will have a dominant power forward. Bertuzzi never figured it out until he was 27 years old. Kassian is the exact type of player teams dream about for the playoffs when he is on his game. Let WD work with him and give him time. Most dominant power forwards figure things when they're <24 years old. While there's the odd flash in the pan like Bertuzzi or Franzen, they're the abnormality rather than the norm. Guys like Lucic, Malone, pre-concussion Booth, Perry, Getzlaf, etc became successful at around the age of Kassian now. Should he fail to make any huge strides this year (20g, 25a... something like that).... chances are he'll fall into the Steve Bernier, Taylor Pyatt category of "power fowards". Guys who are legit NHLers, put up some points, but just 3rd/4th line players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Lol true. Watch the game highlights and watch zacks position or lack there of on the goals. Kassian has been on the ice for two goals against both in the Edmonton game. The Arcobello goal had nothing to do with Kassian at all. Kassian and Vey were the deep fore checkers. It was 3 on 3 and all three (Hamhuis, Bieksa & Richardson) converged on the puck carrier instead of each taking a man leading to an easy back door goal. The Yakupov goal was Kassians fault as far as being unable to handle a blind pass off the wall from Sbisa. Yakupov grabbed the loose puck and blew past Sbisa (his fault) and scored on Miller which was the weakest goal he gave up that game. So two things went wrong after Kassian touched the puck and there was nothing he could do to stop the play. Ultimately I'd put the blame on Miller for that goal as it should have been an easy save. So what are you watching? how many of the goals so far this year was a result of blown coverage by zack? None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Lol true. Watch the game highlights and watch zacks position or lack there of on the goals. We've all seen the 'highlights' or, as I like to call it, empirical evidence that you don't have a clue what you're watching. Now go home and get your shine box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Lol true. Watch the game highlights and watch zacks position or lack there of on the goals. You just accused Old of not being able to talk tough and not back it up and your response to his request then is to not back it up? You don't see the problem with that? Especially after making the bold claim that you have a better handle on this that he does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Kassian has been on the ice for two goals against both in the Edmonton game. The Arcobello goal had nothing to do with Kassian at all. Kassian and Vey were the deep fore checkers. It was 3 on 3 and all three (Hamhuis, Bieksa & Richardson) converged on the puck carrier instead of each taking a man leading to an easy back door goal. The Yakupov goal was Kassians fault as far as being unable to handle a blind pass off the wall from Sbisa. Yakupov grabbed the loose puck and blew past Sbisa (his fault) and scored on Miller which was the weakest goal he gave up that game. So two things went wrong after Kassian touched the puck and there was nothing he could do to stop the play. Ultimately I'd put the blame on Miller for that goal as it should have been an easy save. So what are you watching? None. On the Arcobello goal kass was the high man and went in deep when there was a turnover in the o zone and caused an odd man rush to start the breakout, he was also slow on the back check. This was talked about on the play by play between periods as well if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 You just accused Old of not being able to talk tough and not back it up and your response to his request then is to not back it up? You don't see the problem with that? Especially after making the bold claim that you have a better handle on this that he does? A man can't sleep...... If he's this hot shot kid everyone thinks he is why do the coaches drop him down the lineup every year? He makes a ton of mistakes and is lazy on the back check. He is not ready for the top six is all I've ever said you all need to recheck what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 A man can't sleep...... If he's this hot shot kid everyone thinks he is why do the coaches drop him down the lineup every year? He makes a ton of mistakes and is lazy on the back check. He is not ready for the top six is all I've ever said you all need to recheck what I'm saying. I think you are making the mistake of thinking everyone has evaluated him to be a super star. So far this season and preseason he's made few mistakes and is back checking quite well. He hasn't looked lazy at all. The only gripe on him right now that I have is his endurance. Also we can go back just a few posts to see you asking "how many of the goals so far this year was a result of blown coverage by zack? You need to learn a little more about hockey before you go pretending you do. " You were using that to prove your point that his positioning has been bad and he's been lazy. So having rechecked what you were saying we're all still looking for you to justify this. I would say so far you've shown a real lack of understanding of his game; this is no doubt because of your dislike for him which we could go back into other threads about Kassian to see you disparaging him. He may not be ready for a top 6 role. IMO he's probably not but he's getting close to it. Your claims of him being lazy though are more than ridiculous. What we've seen this year is a player who is continuing to improve and mature. If you can't back up your comments about him when asked to maybe don't make the comments anymore. From my POV you look no less silly than anybody claiming he's a first line superstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 He may not be ready for a top 6 role. IMO he's probably not but he's getting close to it. I personally hope to see him and Vey swapping spots between 2nd/3rd line RW spots all season as their play merits. Sedin, Sedin, Vrbata Burrows, Bonino, Vey/Kassian Higgins, Richardson/Horvat, Vey/Kassian Matthias/Dorsett, Horvat/Richardson, Hansen/Dorsett That would seem to suit both their developmental wheelhouses IMO and allow them to compete for the ice time IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 On the Arcobello goal kass was the high man and went in deep when there was a turnover in the o zone and caused an odd man rush to start the breakout, he was also slow on the back check. This was talked about on the play by play between periods as well if I recall. They broke the play down during the intermission. Their conclusion was, and I agree, the three Canucks converging on the puck carrier leaving both wingers wide open led directly to the easy tap in. Anytime a high player moves deep it's up to another player to cover for him. Richardson did that but was out skated on the rush. Richardson should have left the puck carrier to Hamhuis and covered the winger. It was his man that scored and Bieksa's man that set up the tap in. Kassian was no slower than Vey on the backcheck and the puck was in the net before either could possibly have been any help. Looking beyond the impossibility of either of them preventing the goal their job would have been covering the d-men who also had no effect on the goal. Edit: Your question was - "How many of the goals so far this year was a result of blown coverage by zack?" The answer to that is none. Both were the result of "blown coverage" by others. Specifically Bieksa, Richardson (both attempting to cover the man Hamhuis should have had), and Sbisa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 here are the highlights that Baggins is talking about http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2014020031 press the blue buttons for the individual goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 A man can't sleep...... If he's this hot shot kid everyone thinks he is why do the coaches drop him down the lineup every year? He makes a ton of mistakes and is lazy on the back check. He is not ready for the top six is all I've ever said you all need to recheck what I'm saying. You are getting downright comical Nino. EOTM has broken it down for you very clearly. The Sbisa giveaway in the deep slot was not a Kassian "blown coverage". The Archobello goal was a very uncharacteristic case of two of the Canucks best defensive players - Hamhuis and Richardson - getting a bit crossed up in the first period of the first home game of the season. Not a big deal - not the trailing wingers fault, and certainly nothing there to substantiate anything resembling your ironic tough talk. That rush coverage was something that was discussed at the time in the GDT. Only Nino can conclude what you have - that Kassian's coverage caused that goal. Oblivious. Kassian's underlying numbers entirely betray your blinders - not to mention the fact that for people actually watching, he is frequently the third man back, despite being a winger, because he actually pays attention to when his center is in deep. If he were so mistrusted, he would not have been getting ozone starts in the low 40s under both AV and Tortorella. Kassian has not been sheltered in the least. What has been the case are coaches developing him the right way. He hasn't been spoon fed a top 6 role prematurely. That was the case with the entire Canucks core btw - from the Sedins, to Kesler, to Burrows - all those guys took years to work their way up the lineup. You and a few other wannabees ironically are the only folks suggesting there is some kind of alarm or shame in the fact Kassian is not yet a top 6. I am and have always been perfectly content to see him in a 3RW role to this point of his career. How you perceive him being "dropped down" is curious considering he hasn't had a top 6 role to lose. The irony there is that the opportunity he got under AV to play with the Sedins - he lit it up for a few games - and wasn't demoted - it simply was not his job to lose - he just wasn't and isn't ready for that role, and he may never be the ideal type winger to play with them. Guys like Burrows and Vrbata are exceptionally rounded veterans who play the pitch and catch very well, are outstanding two way players, puck hounds, and excel in a whole range of areas that complement the Sedins. Any noob who expects Kassian to step into that role as a young winger is deluded. Apparently you think the fact he hasn't is some kind of indictment. I find that highly ironic. He's played solid, responsible, and disciplined hockey, and has produced very well in his role. No concern whatsoever. He's coming along nicely. You're pretty much the last Hodgson fanboy holding out still attempting in futility to run Kassian down. Hodgson has no points in 3 games and is already -4, again. He's the premature top 6 who has been demoted. There's where your story actually fits. Thanks for coming out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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