As a fan, would you support a rebuild?

[BI3KSA-]

This team is not going to win as it stands. I can't accept any arguments otherwsise, to be honest.

But, a complete rebuild might not be needed.

Picture a Stanley Cup contender in say three years. Is Luongo the goalie? Doubt it (past his prime) - hopefully with a couple of year's experience as the only #1, Schneider is ready to peak.

Sedins are no long the number one line, but still a serious threat as a high scoring second line. So, who is the first line? They need at least one big, skilled forward to form the basis of a new number one (and that's not Kassian or Schroeder).

Core defense is Garrison, Hamhuis, and Tanev by then. I assume (hope) Edler and Ballard are long gone. So again, they need at least one, high impact defenseman. Better still, two.

Start with a new number one d-pair and first line, and then what is now the core, forms a great second unit. Let that build for couple years and they should be OK.

To rebuild completely is too far a step back, but to think that there is a resurrgence possible with the pieces currently in place is delusional. How they find those 3 to 4 key number one unit pieces over the next couple years is the challenge management has. I also don't think AV is the right person at the helm to build this new identity. He's been a great coach for this version of the Canucks, but he's done here I think.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

The thing everyone still needs to remember that Rebuilding does not guarantee success. Look at all the teams that have been rebuilding over the last ten years. Yes it’s easy to notice the big winners CHI and PIT. But what about all the other teams that have been rebuilding and haven’t had much to show for it.

EDM- Sure they look good with 3 first round draft picks and Eberle. But guess what they haven’t got anything to show for it as of yet. In fact they haven’t made the playoffs in 7 years . This year was supposed to be their break out year and guess what the just barely we ahead of the Flames. Will they really be cup contenders in a few more years? The really sad thing is out of all the #1 picks they had their best player is the one they picked and #22 (not really a rebuild pick).

CLB – CLB have had 11 out of the last 13 years where they have had a top 10 picks (5 in the top 5), and they have made the playoffs only 1 time. To be honest if Bobroski wasn’t there this year they would have easily had yet another terrible year. Will they be cup contenders anytime soon?

NYI- Another team who has had 6 top 10 draft picks (4 of them in the top 5) in the last 7 years. This team barely made the playoffs this year. Yes they are giving the penguins a good run right now but are they really cup contenders any time soon? Without that one #1 overall draft pick that turned out (Tavares) where would this team be? Has rebuilding really turned out well for the islanders?

STL – The blue look like a good team build from drafting but was that really from a rebuild. In the last 10 years they have only had 2 top 10 picks, Erik Johnson and Alex Pietrangelo. I think It’s safe to say only one of those players turned out in their value. Look who’s all making an impact on their roster TJ OShie (24 overall), David Backes (62^nd overall), Perron (26^th overall), Berglund (25^th overall). Did STL rebuild, or did they just do a great job at developing their prospects somewhat like the wings have done.

WPG – Here’s a team that been in the rebuilding phase for a long while considering to the days of the thrashers. 12 out of 14 years they have picked in the top 10. (6 of them our #4 or better) Now by rebuilding goes this team should be a cup contender every year. They should be president trophy winners year after year. Wait what?... they’ve only made the playoffs once in the last 13 years. Are the WPG anywhere close to being cup contenders in the next few years? The answer is NO.

Which teams has it worked for?

PITS

CHI

Why has it worked for them?

Because they have a Stanley cup.

Why did it work?

Penguins got gift wrapped easily two of the top 5 players in the league since entry in the NHL and probably for the next 5-10 years (injury permitting). The types of players that don’t come around every draft year. Was is really good drafting or just getting lucky to suck at the right year?

The Blackhawks missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 years from 99-2008. And in that time they had 6 Top 10 picks (3 of those were #3 or better) Take a look at those 6 top 10 picks and tell me which of those players made an impact CHI winning their cup. How would you rate them?

2000 #10 overall

Mikhail Yakubov. Who? Played a total of 53 games in the NHL 40 with CHI and 13 with FLA

F

2001 # 9 overall

Tummo Ruutu traded for Andrew Ladd in 2008, Ladd a huge boost to the team.

B+

2003 #3 overall

Cam Barker, I don’t really need to comment do I?

D-

2005 #7 overall

Jack Skille, Traded for Frolik, FroliK really didn’t have that much of an impact.

C-

2006 #3 overall

Jon Toews, Captain and all-star

A+

2007 #1 overall

Pat Kane, Another all-star.

A+

In their 9 year rebuild stage they got 3 impact players, Toews and Kane being the biggest help. 3 for 9 years isn’t that great considering they had 6 top 10 picks. They just happened to get two huge gift wrapped players like Toews and Kane.

So in reality does the rebuilding theory work? No, only if you get gift wrapped all-stars, which doesn’t happen in every draft. Some teams have got some good players out of the early draft picks but that doesn’t make a team an instant cup contender. It’s so easy to look at teams like PITS and CHI and think that’s how a team should be built, but in reality if it was that easy all the teams listed about should have won a cup by now. The Stanley cup isn’t won by putting the best team on paper on the ice. It has so much to do with luck, injuries, bounces and getting hot at the right times. Rebuilding is not a good option and will not guarantee a cup in Vancouver. The best thing this team can do is get value out of the picks we do draft. Then develop them into players that make an impact on the team.

Still want a rebuild?

[Socrates]

I agree with most of this, but no Edler (suspect he has to go in a trade for something else).

I also see the 4th line as an issue with this team. Lapierre and Hansen are not the players to build a 4th line around. I would keep Hansen but it wouldn't hurt this team to lose Lapierre and maybe Higgins.

Having Sedin, Sedin, Hansen, Burrows, and Lapierre as 5 of top 12 is just too small or, at least, too many "similar" players. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think any of the current defence will be the 1st pairing - they need one more for that.

[Socrates]

Cory Schneider is the one we gotta move. As I've mentioned in my post above, I'm a Lou fan. I'm also a Schneider fan. That being said, Schneider is going to be way easier to move and will fetch a decent return in the process. I'm not saying Lou wouldn't bring in a decent return, but his contract will make it difficult to move him. Besides, we know what we're paying him the next decade or so.

Cory is wonderfully talented, no doubt there. He could be this and he could be that, but what it comes down to, we don't really know. One can give out excuse after excuse, but what it really came down to on his performance last game? Not good. Was his performance any different than any of Lou's past metldowns? I think not. He'll probably be a/the goalie for the Americans in any international play, and he could be a great performer for us. However, he would better serve himself as a starter for another NHL team. The Vancouver fan base will force him to want out, especially if his performances are hot and cold. I'm sure the goalie graveyard attack mentality will affect him down the road.

[Danthecanucksfan]

A tweak or a re-tool is not a rebuild. They are the things that you have to do, even to keep a championship team competitive.

To me, rebuild is exactly as the name implies. Take it apart and rebuild from scratch. And I'm not ready to see that yet. I still think we have the assets available to make a run again in the next few years.

[JS40]

We don't need a rebuild!

[Nuxfanabroad]

Study what Ottawa/Bryan Murray has done, last 3~5 years. Also a Canadian market; with a Swedish-bent, & a recent finals appearance. They were heavily criticized with the Heatley return..who's laughing now? Murray moved quicker, if you compare that with Lu's scenario. As well, when people realized Clouston was a dud, they didn't re-sign the guy, as MG did AV.

They stockpiled picks, so eventually even the unheralded ones will emerge, due to internal competition(see Pageau). Subtle deals like acquiring Runblad(then parlaying into Turris); not to mention 'tender acquisitions like Anderson & Bishop(also turned into an excellent young asset, Conacher).

All of this for a squad nearer to the Cap floor than the ceiling.

[Coconuts]

Of course, it's bound to happen sooner or later.

[nuck nit]

How about just a rebuild of management?

[BigRedMachine]

The core of this team is rotten. Blow it up.

[J.I.A.H.N]

As a fan, would you accept and support a rebuild?

My question is simply would you support the Canucks through a rebuild if that were the course of action deemed necessary.

One of the main reasons teams wait too long to go through a rebuild is purely for business reasons. Namely the decreased revenue and interest in the team that comes with losing for an extended period.

I am very frustrated with the Canucks at this point. So frustrated that I would be okay with going a different direction even if it meant losing for a few seasons.

Now, there are different types of rebuilds.

1. The Tweak - We have seen the first kind for the last few years. Basically tweaking the roster and maintaining the same core.

To me, this approach will not work going forward, but it is still a type of rebuild so it is on the list.

2. The Re-Tool - The second type is more of a re-tool. Where you maintain a significant portion of your team and try to add a few major pieces without going through the losing.

It is the ideal rebuild scenario but unfortunately it is much harder to effectively pull off than it appears. Every team tries to do this every year so you have to be pretty effective to beat out 29 other teams for those limited impact assets that are available. The Canucks have not shown any ability, imo, to be able to do so consistently.

3. The Gut and Grow - The 3rd type is the painful one. A deep rebuild like we will see the Flames go through. And have seen the Oilers go through. Basically sucking enough for several years to build with top draft picks.

I think drafting and development need to be a much bigger priority but am not sure Vancouver or the Aquilinis would have the balls to see this one through.

I know for me I have seen enough of this core group now to be comfortable with something between option 2 and option 3. I think I might actually be excited to see some bigger changes even if it meant some growing pains.

What do you guys think?

[MJDDawg]

As a fan, would you accept and support a rebuild?

My question is simply would you support the Canucks through a rebuild if that were the course of action deemed necessary.

One of the main reasons teams wait too long to go through a rebuild is purely for business reasons. Namely the decreased revenue and interest in the team that comes with losing for an extended period.

I am very frustrated with the Canucks at this point. So frustrated that I would be okay with going a different direction even if it meant losing for a few seasons.

Now, there are different types of rebuilds.

1. The Tweak - We have seen the first kind for the last few years. Basically tweaking the roster and maintaining the same core.

To me, this approach will not work going forward, but it is still a type of rebuild so it is on the list.

2. The Re-Tool - The second type is more of a re-tool. Where you maintain a significant portion of your team and try to add a few major pieces without going through the losing.

It is the ideal rebuild scenario but unfortunately it is much harder to effectively pull off than it appears. Every team tries to do this every year so you have to be pretty effective to beat out 29 other teams for those limited impact assets that are available. The Canucks have not shown any ability, imo, to be able to do so consistently.

3. The Gut and Grow - The 3rd type is the painful one. A deep rebuild like we will see the Flames go through. And have seen the Oilers go through. Basically sucking enough for several years to build with top draft picks.

I think drafting and development need to be a much bigger priority but am not sure Vancouver or the Aquilinis would have the balls to see this one through.

I know for me I have seen enough of this core group now to be comfortable with something between option 2 and option 3. I think I might actually be excited to see some bigger changes even if it meant some growing pains.

What do you guys think?

[bobopan]

MG is not going to blow this team up i just can't see him doing that. I think a retool and this team can be competitive in a couple years time once the Sedins contracts are up for renewal and the cap is possibly raised. Moving one of our higher paid d-man seems like the best idea imo.

[J.I.A.H.N]

the sedin's are only 32 so you shouldn't be rebuilding it is time to retool over the next three to five years and create a new core to replace the old core. If he is unable to retool then you rebuild. If mg does a very good job at retooling then then there will be one year where we will have a not completely declined twins and a line ready to take over.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I voted re tool. Realistically, I want to go into next season with the following players. (Obviously it wont happen, but I can dream).

???? - Kesler - Burrows

???? - ???? - ????

Higgins - ???? - Hansen

???? - Lapierre - ????

Hamhuis - Bieksa

Garrison - Tanev

???? - Corrado

Schneider

Lack

Our defence is fine, but we will have to trade one of Edler, Garrison or Hamhuis. If the Sedin era is over, then Edler will likely want out as well. He already lost Salo and Ehrhoff and probably won't want to stay if we somehow lost the Sedins

We need North Americans with heart who give it their all game after game. Corrado and Tanev are good young players, and this is what the team needs.

[Guest]

Yes I'd support a rebuild provided there is a clear plan (that I like of course). Size, speed, heart and local talent. Start with coaching and management.

[GoaltenderInterference]

Anything is better than watching the team play like this...

[131313]

First I will support the Canucks whatever they do because I have been a fan too long to change now. (and I am completely disgusted with the league as a whole) As to what I would prefer, I voted for a retool since they are still a reasonably young core. The Sedins at 32 and Burrows at 31 are the old men on the team after Luongo. It is time for Luongo to go and Schneider to become the goalie, and one of the core D men needs to go (preferably Edler). One top 6 forward and a third line center and this team can be a contender again. I really like the RD lineup of Bieksa, Tanev, Corrado. And it is time for AV to move on, he is a good coach and won't be unemployed long but it is time for a change.

[CrazyAL]

I say every Dman making over 4mil per is asked to waive his NTC, liked KB's effort tonight always been a fan still am but it's time to make some tough calls, this dcore is unable to handle a fore check. People moan about no goals, well to get goals you need quick transition out of your own end with speed, something the Canucks have not had for a while now.

[Underachieving Hero of CDC]

No such thing as a quick rebuild