[Official] Canucks coach talk. Keep all talk here.

[Clinch16]

I saw AV at a North Vancouver Deli yesterday. He returned his soup because it was cold.

Should I start a new thread?

[DIBdaQUIB]

I agree with him.

The will to win can't be injected by someone else....it comes from within. These guys know - they're not young players. They're players who've come so close only to see it fade away.

I like AV's interaction and leadership...a good leader doesn't have to be a drill sergeant...a good leader, first and foremost, needs the respect of their crew and you have to earn that in how you treat them. Sure, times will dictate that a good ol' butt kicking may be in order but, at least at the start, I'd hope a new coach doesn't come in there and try to assert his power and authority with a heavy hand. Get their attention by teaching them things you know that they may not....the approach will be important. These aren't new, fresh to the game guys. It has to be done properly, with the right balance between guidance and support.

You guys who are so quick to criticize everything Canuck have become spoiled and don't respect how difficult it actually is to excel in this game/league....good teams can drop like flies when they hit a skid. It's doesn't mean they're not good teams (just look at Chicago right now).

And those constantly undervaluing KB don't appreciate what he brings, not only to our team, but to the game itself. He is a leader and a good coach coming in will recognize that and allow for that role to remain unchanged.

Much of what you say is correct but...KB's comments could also be the warning signs of a power struggle to come. The amount of freedom to run "the room" these players have had is almost unprecedented and it failed miserably. Something has to change and while it was time for AV to move on, much of the blame for the team's failures falls directly on the core leaders and their inability to hold each other accountable for poor effort and bad habits. There's a reason new CEOs often make changes to senior personnel when they take on a new position. People who have had freedom, prestige influence and authority do not easily surrender it to someone else. Teams who's underperformance has lead to a coaching change and a turn around (Montreal, LA, Toronto etc) have all had success because they bought into the new coaches approach. That KB is already resisting change should be cause for concern.

[wallstreetamigo]

Much of what you say is correct but...KB's comments could also be the warning signs of a power struggle to come. The amount of freedom to rung "the room" these players have had is almost unprecedented and it failed miserably. Something has to change and while it was time for AV to move on, much of the blame for the team's failures falls directly on the core leaders and their inability to hold each other accountable for poor effort and bad habits. There's a reason new CEOs often make changes to senior personnel when they take on a new position. People who have had freedom, prestige influence and authority do not easily surrender it to someone else. Teams who's underperformance has lead to a coaching change and a turn around (Montreal, LA, Toronto etc) have all had success because they bought into the new coaches approach. That BK is already resisting change should be cause for concern.

THIS

[GLASSJAW]

Is anyone really surprised that country club Kevin is concerned that he might have to actually earn his ice time and role on the team with a coach who does not believe it is up to him and the Sedins to make decisions about that?

Bieksa is a HUGE part of the problem here and should be the first to go imo.

Statistically, you're absolutely wrong. Bieksa is a good player. He does well for the team.

Do you believe in the relevance of corsi statistics? If so, read this:

http://canucksarmy.com/2012/6/18/hamhuis-bieksa-and-heavy-lifting

Do you believe in a more grit-heart-n-soul approach?

Then watch a game.

Bieksa is not the problem on this team.

[Gustavo Fring]

Yes that comment really did bother me...

He talks as if the group has won the Stanley cup and that they don't need hardly any guidance.

Honestly I wouldn't mind if he said that if the core had some hardware to back it up.

Someone needs to bring this core back to planet earth. Their arrogance is at an all time high. Now I know why Dr. Recchi said what he said.

[wallstreetamigo]

Statistically, you're absolutely wrong. Bieksa is a good player. He does well for the team.

Do you believe in the relevance of corsi statistics? If so, read this:

http://canucksarmy.c...d-heavy-lifting

Do you believe in a more grit-heart-n-soul approach?

Then watch a game.

Bieksa is not the problem on this team.

Corsi statistics are very useful in the right context. But they have nothing to do with what I am talking about.

If you think the last two playoff performances (and even a large part of this regular season's performance) is what constitutes "heart and soul" maybe you need to watch some other teams like Ottawa and Detroit to see what real heart and soul is about when push comes to shove.

Bieksa is a big part of the problem because he is never held accountable for his poor play (and his comments seem to suggest he does not want to be going forward) while people suggest that he is able to motivate the other players on this team as a leader. NOTHING is more demoralizing then the guy who is never held accountable also getting to be the one who places expectations on you to perform better.

If Bieksa was Ballard would he have spent time in the press box for his play at times this season? Of course he would have. THAT is what the issue is. The fact that Bieksa is now whining about what he thinks the team needs is empty to me. The country club hs not worked the lat two seasons but Bieksa thinks it needs to continue?

Sorry, but that is a guy looking out for himself, not his team. Great leadership there.

[asmodeus]

while I feel every aspect of the teams poor performance should be examined and addressed....I would think the craptacular PP and largely invisible top six should be cause for far greater concern than how cocky Bieksa is.

[wallstreetamigo]

while I feel every aspect of the teams poor performance should be examined and addressed....I would think the craptacular PP and largely invisible top six should be cause for far greater concern than how cocky Bieksa is.

His cockiness is a symptom of a much larger issue with the team that also affects every on-ice issue......it is a sense of entitlement that leads to a lack of accountability. What happens when the main guys are not held accountable? No sense of urgency to improve. No fear of losing your job if you don't lay it all on the line.

The PP, top 6, etc. are all symptoms of the ineffective leadership approach of this team. None of those things will improve until the attitude changes. Bottom line.

You need the players in place for sure. But you also need the right attitude, motivation, and accountability to get the most out of them.

[Vansicle]

Surely you would want a tough defenseman in return then, right? Or do you want to have our team get even SOFTER? This guy is not going anywhere, for good reason. To suggest we trade him is one of the most moronic things I've heard in a while.

This.

The fact that Bieksa fails from time to time is a testament to him trying, ie, taking risks. If there is anything that bugs the living cramp out of me about this team is how safe everyone plays it.

Is he right about needing a coach who cracks the whip? Hard to say, but regardless, he's still going to have to be accountable to the new coach irrespective of his coaching style. Naturally Bieksa is going to spout off about what kind of coach the team needs; KB is a lout. And that is exactly what this team needs more of.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajjX9_QtSAk

This video never fails to cheer me up.

[Dogbyte]

Highschool students sometimes need someone to 'crack the whip'.

Elite athletes need (a management team) to encourage their best performance by providing strategies to enhance strengths and diminishes weaknesses. A thorough evaluation and subsequent plan for the player's participation and role on the team on/off the ice will develop commitment, discipline and character. A team system that promotes and utilizes the player's best qualities.

An intelligent, experienced and talented management team is required.

Also...like everyone else around here, Bieksa is entitled to his own opinion.

I find it extremely interesting how people view the "coaching" philosphy. While I agree that high school kids need to be pushed an adult athlete also needs a certain push as well. I've played higher level sports for many years and as an adult you need a peer or someone you respect to focus your attention. There are even more serious concerns like children and mortgages when you are an adult. Someone has to make the game more important than your life at that moment. Regardless, I think any coach that gets the players to re-evaluate what they bring and where they can improve will greatly benefit the team. I'm all for bringing in a guy like Tippett that can teach Bieksa how to make better plays, the moreso if we keep Edler.

[Alex Burrows 14]

Lol to people blaming bieksa. And btw I agree with him

[Neil HD]

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--babcock-keeps-pushing-red-wings-in-perhaps-his-best-coaching-job-ever-184636304.html

This is the kind of standard I want our next coach to hold our players to, rookie or veteran. Replace Babcock with AV and Brendan Smith with Edler and Bieksa, and I truly believe both guys would have responded with more remarkable all-around games.

[Ghostsof1915]

For all the flak that Naslund got on his "we choked" statement. At least he was honest and disgusted with himself and the team.

I know people got mad for that. But the truth hurts.

But like a true leader he said afterwords "We have something to prove".

The Canucks players as a whole need to look at themselves in a mirror and honestly ask if they are doing everything they can to win? Because it sure didn't look like it.

[Undrafted]

I agree with him.

The will to win can't be injected by someone else....it comes from within. These guys know - they're not young players. They're players who've come so close only to see it fade away.

I like AV's interaction and leadership...a good leader doesn't have to be a drill sergeant...a good leader, first and foremost, needs the respect of their crew and you have to earn that in how you treat them. Sure, times will dictate that a good ol' butt kicking may be in order but, at least at the start, I'd hope a new coach doesn't come in there and try to assert his power and authority with a heavy hand. Get their attention by teaching them things you know that they may not....the approach will be important. These aren't new, fresh to the game guys. It has to be done properly, with the right balance between guidance and support.

You guys who are so quick to criticize everything Canuck have become spoiled and don't respect how difficult it actually is to excel in this game/league....good teams can drop like flies when they hit a skid. It's doesn't mean they're not good teams (just look at Chicago right now).

And those constantly undervaluing KB don't appreciate what he brings, not only to our team, but to the game itself. He is a leader and a good coach coming in will recognize that and allow for that role to remain unchanged.

I agree with most of this and I think anyone who's ever been a boss or a supervisor at work would also realize that screaming and yelling at people is rarely effective at motivating the people who work for you. More often than not, that kind of thing is counter-productive when it comes to motivation.

And I don't think a lack of motivation was the problem with the team; the majority of the problems has been execution and poor on-ice decision making.

How many times have we watched games and seen the Canucks try one too many passes instead of taking an obvious shooting opportunity? How many times have we watched our D make ill-advised passes up the middle of the ice, often with disastrous results? Obviously, the answer is far too many times. Those aren't caused by motivational problems, those are systems-based problems; it wasn't that the Canucks didn't work hard enough, it was that they didn't work smart enough.

[asmodeus]

His cockiness is a symptom of a much larger issue with the team that also affects every on-ice issue......it is a sense of entitlement that leads to a lack of accountability. What happens when the main guys are not held accountable? No sense of urgency to improve. No fear of losing your job if you don't lay it all on the line.

The PP, top 6, etc. are all symptoms of the ineffective leadership approach of this team. None of those things will improve until the attitude changes. Bottom line.

You need the players in place for sure. But you also need the right attitude, motivation, and accountability to get the most out of them.

Fair enough..and hard to argue the point. But I still firmly believe that no amount of leadership or accountability will ever make the Sedins effective playoff performers. You could put Scotty Bowman behind the bench with Babcock and Robinson assisting and the result would be the same....broken cycle vanishing act.

If this core stays same it won't make a bit of difference how accountable the players hold themselves to be...no goals is still no goals.

[GLASSJAW]

Corsi statistics are very useful in the right context. But they have nothing to do with what I am talking about.

If you think the last two playoff performances (and even a large part of this regular season's performance) is what constitutes "heart and soul" maybe you need to watch some other teams like Ottawa and Detroit to see what real heart and soul is about when push comes to shove.

Bieksa is a big part of the problem because he is never held accountable for his poor play (and his comments seem to suggest he does not want to be going forward) while people suggest that he is able to motivate the other players on this team as a leader. NOTHING is more demoralizing then the guy who is never held accountable also getting to be the one who places expectations on you to perform better.

If Bieksa was Ballard would he have spent time in the press box for his play at times this season? Of course he would have. THAT is what the issue is. The fact that Bieksa is now whining about what he thinks the team needs is empty to me. The country club hs not worked the lat two seasons but Bieksa thinks it needs to continue?

Sorry, but that is a guy looking out for himself, not his team. Great leadership there.

People here keep using the buzzphrase "held accountable" like it's clear in definition and applicability

Held accountable for what? Bieksa is not to blame for the team's regular collapses, and he cannot be held accountable for the treatment of Ballard, because it's not him doing the treatment. So, what exactly are you saying? Bench Kevin Bieksa when he gets caught on a pinch or in the wrong zone, even though that's what the Canucks coaching staff ASKS of him? It is not a fool-proof strategy.

Is Bieksa to be held accountable for Ballard's treatment? The whole team looked rotten this year, should they all have been benched? Are you going to bench a gritty right handed defenseman on a team that totally lacks both grit and a right handed shot? I am very glad you aren't the coach, your emotions dictate objectivity far too much

Again, statistically Bieksa is not the problem. His playoff numbers are not good, but they are not bad. Compared to the rest of the team they ARE good.

Saying "Bieksa is looking out for himself" and saying that he is "whining" is YOUR editorial and it's YOUR interpretation, it has absolutely nothing to do with his on-ice play or even his personality

The team needs changes, I am the first to agree with that. I'm by no means in Deb territory where I think the team does no wrong, but I do think removing a few weak pieces (a goalie, ballard, and a forward), bringing in a new coach and one or two supplement players would instantly put this team in the elite category again

[poetica]

I think Bieksa's right that this group of guys wouldn't respond to a Tortorella style coach screaming at them like unruly teenagers. But, he's obviously wrong in thinking they can be counted on to always motivate themselves because we've seen them fail to do that too many times. And Bieksa is one of the worst when it comes to "Well, we almost beat them with a 20-minute effort" type of comments after bad games, making it seem as if his confidence is morphing into undeserved ego. That's not good.

Personally, I never minded AV's more father figure style of coaching, I only wished he'd played up on it more. They might not respond to being yelled at, but I would have loved to have seen how they would have responded to him going full on "disappointed dad" on them.

Imagine something along the lines of.....

"Gee, guys. I just don't know what to say here. I look at all of you and how much you've grown as men and as players and I've been so proud to be your coach and to know you all. But then I see you out there playing like you are tonight, phoning it in like you don't care anymore and I'm confused. With the amount of talent, skill and dedication this group has, I really expected better of you. I just don't know where I went so wrong. I just...I just don't have anything else to say to you right now. I'm just so disappointed."

[Alex Burrows 14]

Yeah, you're 14, you know everything.

No I just disagree that he's part of the problem and I agree with what he said

[TheRussianRocket.]

Bieksa is in danger of turning his swagger into an unhealthy arrogance.

He has an annoying habit of trying to look too casual and then loses the head when an opposition player rushes him into mistakes. If that is not bad enough he then loses focus and set out to punish the guy even when it takes him out of position or gives up a penalty.

This has only become a problem in the last 2 seasons.

lol, whatever floats your boat there.....Bieksa is a core player of the team whether he makes mistakes or whatnot. He plays with heart and soul and so what if he messes up here or there...every player does it, who doesn't....he plays with a wicked attitude and in overall has a wicked attitude, reminds me of old school hockey players.

Idk which Bieksa your talking about, but alright..