Kryten Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I understand what you are saying, which is why I said it's a form of oppression for some women. But what about all the women that wear the hijab or burqa by choice? Especially here in western nations? Are you proposing that these women be forced to give them up despite their cultural/religious sentiments? I've watched so many Richard Dawkins videos where some of these women are so passionate about their beliefs and their right to choose to wear the hijab.. it may not make sense to me, but it doesn't have to. Again, I think it is imperative that we focus on education and broadening minds. Let people make their own decisions about following (what I believe to be) man-made religions, or choose the path of science and common sense lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Possible to have a 'religious symbols ban in Quebec' thread not turn into a general religion thread on cdc? I'd like to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think the last thread stayed on topic, surprisingly. Anyways, this isn't about separation of religion from state, but about oppressing minority religious opinion. Public employees aren't pushing their religion on others by wearing religious garments, so banning them is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I just don't understand why Quebec is doing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I highly disagree that that's the case with Muslim women growing up here. Sorry. I dont buy it and I'll take my personal experience here over Ayan Hirsi Ali's experience living in Somalia where the social landscape is very very different. Of course because many just can't seem to comprehend why a woman would want to do that to herself, they are quick to say that even she insists it's her choice "she was brainwashed to do so". Give me a break with this imperial humanism. You're doing women who chose it willingly injustice by reducing them to victims when they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 As long as it will be uniformly enforced, I don't really see a problem with it. It's not like they're banning religious symbols everywhere... just as long as you're working for the government. The government is secular and those working for it should represent that. The same policy has been applied in France and in Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 As long as it will be uniformly enforced, I don't really see a problem with it. It's not like they're banning religious symbols everywhere... just as long as you're working for the government. The government is secular and those working for it should represent that. The same policy has been applied in France and in Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 This is beyond ridiculous. What will be accomplished by doing this? Government shouldn't be telling people how to live their personal lives, what to believe in, how to dress, etc. I may personally believe that the hijab is a (cultural and not religious) form of oppression used against women, but for some women it has much more significance than a simple piece of cloth. Same goes for Sikh men wearing the turban, it's a cultural and religious symbol which has great personal meaning for these men. As long as these religious symbols are not putting other people at risk, causing harm or enticing hatred, what's the big deal? The best thing the government can do is educate people, preach tolerance and acceptance by all, and allow their citizens to come to logical conclusions themselves. You cannot force a religious person to give up their faith... that's something that they have to come to on their own through education and washing away the years of indoctrination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I fail to see why some people are so up in arms over this. This is not a slight against any one religion or denomination of faith,. This is a clear separation of church and proverbial state which needs to happen from time to time. As of late we've had WAY to many politicians claiming religion as their justification for doing incredibly stupid things. office of religious freedoms (without any muslims bhuddists Taoists etc) bush and republicans claiming god given rights to this and that Canadian governments embrace of Israeli beliefs and jewish pandering Conservative MP's claims of the world being 600 years old American and Canadian tax dollars being funneled to special interest groups based on faith or faithful teaching. While I agree the optics of this are bad nobody is being singled out it seems. When you serve your "beliefs" more than the people you are sworn and paid to represent on a whole than the conflict of interest needs to be dealt with. In my personal opinion this looks bad, is being done poorly and backwards completely. But is necessary and should just be a start in the cleansing of religion from our politics and politicians. I will not comment again on this story as I refuse to drag myself into a religious debate that ends with someone telling me I;m stupid or my opinion is wrong or im not entitled to one all while proclaiming belief in a righteous god who is supposed to preach love and equality. As well, being of French Canadian/metis bloodlines I laugh at the idea of preaching equality and rights and beliefs while saying Quebec is wrong backwards and trying to attempt to force your decisions or beliefs on them by claiming they are wrong when it is their right to do as they will as a province. So happy arguing I expect this mess of a thread to be locked after say 3 or 4 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Again, can someone tell me how wearing a turban, or wearing a cross around your neck is somehow imposing your religion on someone? Kids in school will somehow convert to Islam when they seeing their teacher wearing a hijab? Seriously, are we that lazy? You strip someone's rights away so you don't have to be bothered to explain to your kids that there are many religions that exist around the world? Government has no business in deciding what people can or cannot wear (of course in the special case of if the person is wearing hateful messages, etc then intervention is definitely allowed). And all this time I thought Quebec was more progressive than the rest of Canada. On a side note, I'm really starting to despise this new government in Quebec. If Ms. Marois wants to enact all these bills that are walking the fine line between provincial and federal jurisdictions she should just bring up another separatist referendum. Quebec should not have been allowed to enforce their own special charter in the first place, they should secede first if they really want to be independent. Not to mention the millions of tax dollars they extort from the federal government to fund their unsustainable social programs... Oh and would you look at that. Quebec is set to receive another 7.8 billion dollars from the federal government this upcoming fiscal year...more than double of what any other province is set to receive... http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 You may have a point where it's enforced as law to wear that garment. But living here, parental expectations aside there really is no where near the same pressure. So I don't think this victim complex stands here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Are uniforms at school or work a symbol of oppression as well by that logic? Dress code from employers? There's a lot of people that find those a nuisance yet force themselves to go through with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Lol thanks. I don't disagree with your views at all if we're discussing Saudi Arabia but again I'm trying to put it in the context of Canadian women that have made the decision to wear it. Is it a symbol of oppression here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Again, can someone tell me how wearing a turban, or wearing a cross around your neck is somehow imposing your religion on someone? Kids in school will somehow convert to Islam when they seeing their teacher wearing a hijab? Seriously, are we that lazy? You strip someone's rights away so you don't have to be bothered to explain to your kids that there are many religions that exist around the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Can we just let Quebec separate already? Nobody likes them anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I fail to see why some people are so up in arms over this. This is not a slight against any one religion or denomination of faith,. This is a clear separation of church and proverbial state which needs to happen from time to time. As of late we've had WAY to many politicians claiming religion as their justification for doing incredibly stupid things. office of religious freedoms (without any muslims bhuddists Taoists etc) bush and republicans claiming god given rights to this and that Canadian governments embrace of Israeli beliefs and jewish pandering Conservative MP's claims of the world being 600 years old American and Canadian tax dollars being funneled to special interest groups based on faith or faithful teaching. While I agree the optics of this are bad nobody is being singled out it seems. When you serve your "beliefs" more than the people you are sworn and paid to represent on a whole than the conflict of interest needs to be dealt with. In my personal opinion this looks bad, is being done poorly and backwards completely. But is necessary and should just be a start in the cleansing of religion from our politics and politicians. I will not comment again on this story as I refuse to drag myself into a religious debate that ends with someone telling me I;m stupid or my opinion is wrong or im not entitled to one all while proclaiming belief in a righteous god who is supposed to preach love and equality. As well, being of French Canadian/metis bloodlines I laugh at the idea of preaching equality and rights and beliefs while saying Quebec is wrong backwards and trying to attempt to force your decisions or beliefs on them by claiming they are wrong when it is their right to do as they will as a province. So happy arguing I expect this mess of a thread to be locked after say 3 or 4 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Well that is how most people get their religious beliefs, from watching their parents, so it is not that much of a stretch to believe that a young child might be affected if say multiple role models in their lives ei doctor, teachers are displaying these items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Context is very very important my friend. It's not the same. An action when forced can be terrible but when chosen very liberating. I'll use the analogy of sexual intercourse, the action is independent of context (something goes in and out, in and out teehee). Likewise it's a piece of cloth on the head. Now bring force into picture, rape is reprehensible as is forcing someone to wear it. Sex with consent though has great reviews. Would it make sense then to paint sex in both situations with the same brush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A.A Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Well that is how most people get their religious beliefs, from watching their parents, so it is not that much of a stretch to believe that a young child might be affected if say multiple role models in their lives ei doctor, teachers are displaying these items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.