[RUMOURS] Daily TSN Trade Rumours.

[86Viking]

chicago has won 2 cups, and they had to retool and majorly change their team after the 1st cup. They got rid of players, stayed competitive, and had to move some players that had impact.

Sundin would have been a horrible signing if he agreed to a 2 year deal, if he did would we not have lost the sedins that summer.

Ray shero has tried and given up high picks and prospects to increase his chances to win a cup. Atleast they have one a cup. Holmgen Traded 2 of his best including their captain and got great returns for both of them. THose players in return have and will continue to help that team grow and be competitve for years to come.

Gillis hasnt traded for a top 4 d man, Ballard doesnt count as he never got used it that role, and he did overpay for him. Then after barely playing him and wasting over 4m in cap for a couple years they bought him out. Same thing with booth, Samuelsson was a leader and really helped our PP during the glory years. Booth never panned out, but yes that deal was worth what we gave up just to bad hes been so injured.

Giving up a good prospect D and a 2nd round pick for a smaller skilled center that the coach refused to use in the top 6. That wasnt smart, Roy is not a checking line center. Pahlsson was a good fit for that role but he never seemed interested in staying. Higgins and Lappy were good moves, but in no way did that put us over the top.

We have lacked secondary scoring or a decent 2nd unit PP when the chips are on the line. You want to tell me that you want MG a first time ever GM in charge of knowing who to keep, what to get in return? I wouldnt. He at the very least should be moved out of the gm role and let someone with real experience take over.

Since the cup finals, we needed a quality top 6 center for Kesler, and we never did replace Salo or Erhoffs good passing ability from the point on the PP. Sounds like a GM hasnt done enough to improve his team.

Moving Schneider after an awful handling of two good goalies. As he over valued what he wanted for both possibly. We groomed Schneider for years to become our new #1. And in a last minute move we trade him for a draft pick? That doesnt help improve our team now. We should have got a quality top6 player in return for a prime aged #1 goalie, not a pick who is 2-4 years away from making an impact on our team. With the core we have now we need the help now.

I have given Gillis many years to try to show us he is a capable gm, and i just dont see it. And if the time comes in the next year or two where we end up trading some of our core like : KEsler, Edler,Garrison,Bieksa,Burrows,Hansen,Tanev,Luu etc.

I wouldnt have much faith in what he gets in return, or how he can move a couple of those pieces and doing a retool while still try to be competitive. I dont expect them to finish 1st in conference every year, but I want to see a team compete hard, see some youth injected in the line up.

We need a change in some way, could be a trade. All i know is we have all seen this coming, we all saw the new division we were going to be in and it wasnt going to be easy. But in no way would it be acceptable for us to all of a sudden become a fringe playoff team in the west.

Reality is what it is, if some want to defend him thats fine, I just think all along he was the wrong hire and the team back then needed someone who had the knowledge and sense of when his team needs a shake up or change. He has given out big NTC contracts to some players and now they are under performing, and handcuffing them. Hell if Shea Weber can get a huge deal like he did but his GM doesnt authorize a NTC that has to say something. Not like he took a discount. Doesnt matter who the player is they are all multi millionaires who get paid a ton for what they do. ITs a business, life goes on if you dont perform you shouldnt handcuff a team.

I truly believe hockey needs to change the way players get paid. I would love to see something like the NFL, where sure they pay huge money for some of their players, but many times theres a minimum they get. Say they sign a guy for 5yr 50m. But of that 50m 25m is guaranteed. It keeps the players hungry, goals to achieve. Instead of getting a NTC on a long term deal worth 4m or more per season. They then have horrid seasons, are overpaid for the roles they play or what have you. Those players should have to restructure their deals if they want to stay on their team.

I hope some moves are made, I dont want us blowing up the core at the deadline, but a move or 2 to try and shake things up is needed. Then see what happens, dip in and see what certain ufa;s want. IF we fail to make the playoffs i really think the GM should be on the hotseat. Even if we get in and loose in the first round i dont think its acceptable.

Anyways, thats how i feel, I saw us get so close to winning, and dont want to see us fall and become an aging core with a bunch of guys with NTC and have no ability to make improvements. We need some youth injected into our lineup.

[dragon4401]

cap drop check goalie asking prices these days check....Biiiiig problem with your goalie argument where would his cap of come from?

Not using Roy is on AV...on any team he is a top6 player and it cost only a 2nd and a mid prospect LHD...Stanton has been far better for us then Connaution for the Stars...Probably would not of claimed Stanton if still had him so even in hindsight knowing how it worked out id still take it again

Ballard again fit a need we had then fell into AV doghouse...Just because you don't like it does not make it not a bold move hate to burst your bubble

And even in hindsight you would not of hired Gillis? Your joking right? the GM that brought this franchise from a crappy team to the best years in franchise history?

Chicago did trade core pieces away to fit cap but remember how old Toews and Kane are so its not like that hurts them at all to move a few vets

He is still under little pressure pissy fans will not change that...He knows he has no key UFAs to sign with the cap increasing he will be able to move Hansen at the deadline and that's probably only move done till the offseason...And if looking for a UFA signing like Vanek/Moulson/Stasiny you will be disappointed...I forsee signings like Fiddler or Hemsky...can fit up and down the line and be solid additions to the team and when looking at the Sweden game it is apparent to me Edler could very well be a PWF with jumping into the play...if keep him off the blueline and let him stay focused on offence I gotta feeling he will be just like Burns for us

[86Viking]

he has all the same core players now from day 1 on the job. Adding FA in Hamhuis woul basically wrote his ticket where he wanted to play.

If you give up a good amount for a pending FA who is top 6, i would hop the GM would tell the coach, try him with kesler and have Kes slide to the wing. See if theirs some chemistry. So saying that a GM should leave his transactions fully on the coach to use at his discretion is the wrong thing.

So ballard fell into the doghouse before every playing? Because he never got a shot in the top 4, which is salary dictates is where he should play, yes we signed Hammer after i realize that. still could have done more to try and make it work. Having a coach not use a guy like him but instead use Rome is horrible, we all but gave Ballard no confidence for when he played and if he made a mistake he got benched. I do recall Tanev being a good pairing with Ballard.

You just said Chicago moved some vets, yes Kane and Toews are young, Sharp is a bit older then Kesler, Hossa is older than the Sedins. So you agree that moving some vets to remain competitive and retool/get under the cap/not over pay is a good thing then, well sure sounds like you do anyway.

I have never once mention getting or signing Vanek or Moulson in a post ever. Both will command to much money. Who wants to pay Vanek 7m or more for 7 years? I dont. Moulson had great chemistry with Tavares, maybe he signs their but doubt it. Think he is over rated for the $ he will get, plus he is 30 and will get 5yr deal minimum probably.

Only reason why we should try to get stastny would be to move Kesler to the wing, give him a quality playmaker. But again, stastny as a UFA will command 4-7yr deal for atleast 6-7m. We just cant afford that. Shorter term 3 years or so, making a commitment to try to contend fine.

Also, MG has tied too much $ in our D. We finally get rid of Ballard, overpay for a 1 year player and give him a ntc and 6yr deal in Garrison. I like Garrison but in no way should we have got into a bidding war for his services. I was hoping we would get him, but for 3 yrs and no more than 3.5m. Thats all he is worth.

Whats MG hold up signing our most consistant and basically youngest D in Tanev? seems like he loves 4-5m longer term deals. Think Tanev has proven for a while now he is a solid top 4 D man. Why is he not resigned? Sure hope we dont trade him, as Bieksa is getting older and we have 2 ufa smaller right hand d men. Tanev can take some of the workload from bieksa, and we can continue to groom Corrado.

Moving 1 of the 4m or more LHD is a move we should look at making, but dont give them away for a prospect, especially a guy who for right now is so overrated like MAntha. Mantha could have been had in the draft just a year ago. And now people want us moving our best offensive D man for him in return. thats unbelievable to me, if a move like that happens, it shows its a total rebuild thats going to happen and you might as well move most of your core and i dont think you would have an issue asking some of the NTC guys to waive if they see us go into a rebuild

[dragon4401]

IF Edler gets moved your right about that it wont be for Mantha or some other prospect it will be for an NHL ready young player and I see Ottawa being best bet

Whats the difference in paying 4-5mil for 5 d whereas pay 7.5mil and 2-4mil for 3? Our defence when healthy if very solid but that has not been the case as of late and some guys being overplayed and it is leading to the problems and breakdowns...I have no problems paying what we are and Tanev is a RFA he is under no pressure will see him probably go the distance into the offseason and be signed

You said it we will not have the cap for a top UFA and still fit other pieces we will need...and there is no need to take a prospect who may not be ready for the NHL and force them in and potentially ruin them(I do see several making a serious push but end of the day only see 1 or 2 making it)

And yes they did but they also had the luxury of drafting Kane and Toews something we have not so we are not anywhere near them in terms of team setup...And our drafting is finally getting better since the Nonis era that was complete crap

As I said I don't see a need to panic teams miss the playoffs then rebound strong...I see few guys like Hansen and Booth gone for sure going into next season so will see where we go

[86Viking]

if ottawa would have interest dont htink they would pay the price, but zibanejad or turris would be the starting point.

Still dont get why their fans keep putting Spezza in all their proposals. He is a great player, they need to either play ryan with him or go get a winger for spezza. Cant do much with conacher and oft injured michalek.

[dragon4401]

if ottawa would have interest dont htink they would pay the price, but zibanejad or turris would be the starting point.

Still dont get why their fans keep putting Spezza in all their proposals. He is a great player, they need to either play ryan with him or go get a winger for spezza. Cant do much with conacher and oft injured michalek.

The problem I heard with Spezza is that besides Alfie he does not work well with others...I cant say either way on that but I don't think that's the case there but again I got no clue don't watch Sens often

[smithers joe]

i believe gillis has made some very good moves and some not so good....over all i like what he has done and trust that he is still trying to make this team competitive...would i trust the cdc gm's above our team gm, to lead this team?......no way, we know crap....

[Warhippy]

Out in The Big Apple?

Both Ryan Callahan and Dan Girardi were the subject of trade rumours before the NHL broke for the Sochi Olympics. According to TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie, the New York Rangers haven't made any appreciable progress during the Olympic break on new contracts for the pair; terms remaining an issue on both.

At this time, the Rangers don't have anything imminent in terms of trade for either guy, and McKenzie expect things to play out over the next 7-10 days.

Future In Question

According to John Vogl of The Buffalo News, pending unrestricted free agent Steve Ott's future with the Sabres is in question.

"I told them I want to be here," Ott said Sunday. "We'll see where it all goes. I am professional enough to know the business side of things and what the situation is here as well. We'll see how it all plays out in the next two weeks."

The Sabres' captain said he has not had contract talks with the Sabres.

[Warhippy]

St. Louis In Play?

Larry Brooks of the New York Post writes that Martin St. Louis' name has been in trade speculation and that the New York Rangers have inquired about a possible deal that would bring him to The Big Apple for captain Ryan Callahan.

Brooks, however, adds that Lightning general manager Steve Yzerman has no interest in dealing away the Olympic gold medallist and two-time Art Ross Trophy winner for a player considered to be a rental.

The Post also says Callahan's asking price of seven years at about $6.75 million per year is believed to be beyond what the Lightning would be willing to pay to keep him from hitting the open market this summer.

Wanting To Stay

His name has been in trade rumours, but Colorado Avalanche forward P-A Parenteau has made it clear he wants to stay in Denver.

"You try not to think about it, but it's not easy, especially when you have a family," Parenteau told The Denver Post.

"I love it here. I want to stay here. You don't want to leave a place you love, and you don't want to leave a really good team too, which is what we have here. So, I know this is a really big chance for me now, and I'm planning on making it happen."

[MoneypuckOverlord]

i believe gillis has made some very good moves and some not so good....over all i like what he has done and trust that he is still trying to make this team competitive...would i trust the cdc gm's above our team gm, to lead this team?......no way, we know crap....

the clowns here no jack crap about managing a hockey team at the NHL. They struggle for a half season, and they call for the GM to get fired, and to trade off all core players for a bunch draft picks, and maybe 1st rounders. These place is absolutely clueless when to comes to managing a hockey club. Not that I know how to manage a hockey team myself, but most of what MIke Gillis have been doing to this team is is nothing but positive moves. Edler at 5 millino is a good signing. David Booth was also a good trade, because we still end up with a 2nd round pick, and he's not a deadbeat like Samuelson. Bieksa was a warrior in the playoffs prior to his current contract. Garrison is on pace to a 40 point season. Dan Hamhius... welll... what can I say... he made team Canada despite being the 7th dman.... The Keith Ballard trade was not the best, of course we all make mistakes and Letting Ehrhoff go was probably his worst move. But still. MIke Gillis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm chairs on Canucks.com

[Pears]

the clowns here no jack crap about managing a hockey team at the NHL. They struggle for a half season, and they call for the GM to get fired, and to trade off all core players for a bunch draft picks, and maybe 1st rounders. These place is absolutely clueless when to comes to managing a hockey club. Not that I know how to manage a hockey team myself, but most of what MIke Gillis have been doing to this team is is nothing but positive moves. Edler at 5 millino is a good signing. David Booth was also a good trade, because we still end up with a 2nd round pick, and he's not a deadbeat like Samuelson. Bieksa was a warrior in the playoffs prior to his current contract. Garrison is on pace to a 40 point season. Dan Hamhius... welll... what can I say... he made team Canada despite being the 7th dman.... The Keith Ballard trade was not the best, of course we all make mistakes and Letting Ehrhoff go was probably his worst move. But still. MIke Gillis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm chairs on Canucks.com

Only problem with this post is that Gillis is an idiot.

[Warhippy]

On The Mark(ov)?

According to Tony Marinaro of TSN Radio 690, the Montreal Canadiens have offered a one-year, $6 million contract to defenceman Andrei Markov.

Marinaro adds that Markov, an unrestricted free agent at season's end, is seeking a three-year deal while general manager Marc Bergevin wants to go one year at a time.

Leafs Looking?

TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger told TSN Radio 1050 on Tuesday that Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Dave Nonis is rumoured to be looking for a top four defenceman. Dreger reports that The Maple Leafs are only interested in 'hockey moves' and would probably prefer to stay away from a rental player.

Dreger adds there's still the possibility that a Jake Gardiner type of trade occurs - but only if the rate of return is acceptable.

Nothing Too Big

As Mike Zeisberger of The Toronto Sun adds, Nonis is not looking at making a splash ahead of the Mar. 5 trade deadline.

"I don't anticipate us making any major moves," Nonis told The Sun. "And I definitely don't see us getting involved in a rent-a-player transaction that sees us move resources for someone we only have for a handful of weeks."

Nonis added that while he's not closing the door completely on a major deal, it would have to be one that's too good to pass up.

"You're always looking to get better," he said. "But it has to be a hockey deal. It has to make sense long term while helping us now as well."

Another Flame On The Block?

With pending UFAs Michael Cammalleri and Lee Stempniak already mentioned on the block, Scott Cruickshank of The Calgary Herald says the Flames would like to deal Shane O'Brien. The veteran blueliner has a $2 million cap hit tha runs through next season.

Blue line help in Philly?

Tim Panaccio of CSNPhilly.com writes that the Philadelphia Flyers will need an 'impact defenceman' if they want to make the playoffs, thinking that a player like Andrew MacDonald of the New York Islanders, Winnipeg Jets blueliner Dustin Byfuglien, Nick Schultz of the Oilers, Calgary's Dennis Wideman and Dallas Stars defenceman Trevor Daley could be a fit.

Waiting On Erat

Washington Capitals GM George McPhee will be asking disgruntled forward Martin Erat again if he wants to be traded. "I don't think that's going to change," McPhee told Chuck Gormley of CSNWashington.com. "I'll talk to him when he gets back and if he still wants to be traded, we'll try to accommodate him.

"It's been a difficult year with transactions. Had this been a typical year we might have been able to move him within weeks of his request, but that wasn't the case this year."

(The Other) Subban in Play?

With Boston's goaltending set with Tuukka Rask for years to come, Stephen Harris of The Boston Herald thinks prospect Malcolm Subban could be, 'a very valuable chip' in a possible trade if he can land a player which helps the Bruins win the Stanley Cup again.

-----------------------------------

you have to wonder what it would take to get Malcolm Subban out of Boston on some level especially knowing just how close the Subban Brothers are and how PK is possibly mulling his options in Montreal.

[MJDDawg]

the clowns here no jack crap about managing a hockey team at the NHL. They struggle for a half season, and they call for the GM to get fired, and to trade off all core players for a bunch draft picks, and maybe 1st rounders. These place is absolutely clueless when to comes to managing a hockey club. Not that I know how to manage a hockey team myself, but most of what MIke Gillis have been doing to this team is is nothing but positive moves. Edler at 5 millino is a good signing. David Booth was also a good trade, because we still end up with a 2nd round pick, and he's not a deadbeat like Samuelson. Bieksa was a warrior in the playoffs prior to his current contract. Garrison is on pace to a 40 point season. Dan Hamhius... welll... what can I say... he made team Canada despite being the 7th dman.... The Keith Ballard trade was not the best, of course we all make mistakes and Letting Ehrhoff go was probably his worst move. But still. MIke Gillis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm chairs on Canucks.com

The revisionist history that goes on in these forums is fun to read.

The team has struggled for half a season you say? I say they've struggled for 2 1/2 seasons, been swept in the first round of the playoffs two straight years and are on the verge of completely missing the playoffs this season.

All their core players are in serious decline, the team is one of the oldest in the league, the teams' trade options have been limited by the number of NTC's they have, and the prospect pool, while improved in the last couple of years, is still not deep enough.

Finally the GM, who is desperate to chase the dream for another year or two at the expense of the longer term benefit of this team goes out and signs an old school coach who clearly does not fit the type of players and game this team has been built around.

Everyone here, including myself, might be clueless, but it doesn't take a PHD to see what has and is happening with this team right now and where it might be headed if our GM continues to chase the dream while our assets with the value needed to transform this team to the next generation of Canucks continue to decline in value.

[Amish Rake Fighter]

the Canucks are the 13th oldest team in the league, younger than Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim, San Jose, etc...

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams

[MJDDawg]

the Canucks are the 13th oldest team in the league, younger than Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim, San Jose, etc...

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams

Surprised to see teams like Chicago and Philly as being older.

I should have worded my response better. I was more referring to the age of the core group.

[5minutesinthebox]

On The Mark(ov)?

According to Tony Marinaro of TSN Radio 690, the Montreal Canadiens have offered a one-year, $6 million contract to defenceman Andrei Markov.

Marinaro adds that Markov, an unrestricted free agent at season's end, is seeking a three-year deal while general manager Marc Bergevin wants to go one year at a time.

Leafs Looking?

TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger told TSN Radio 1050 on Tuesday that Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Dave Nonis is rumoured to be looking for a top four defenceman. Dreger reports that The Maple Leafs are only interested in 'hockey moves' and would probably prefer to stay away from a rental player.

Dreger adds there's still the possibility that a Jake Gardiner type of trade occurs - but only if the rate of return is acceptable.

Nothing Too Big

As Mike Zeisberger of The Toronto Sun adds, Nonis is not looking at making a splash ahead of the Mar. 5 trade deadline.

"I don't anticipate us making any major moves," Nonis told The Sun. "And I definitely don't see us getting involved in a rent-a-player transaction that sees us move resources for someone we only have for a handful of weeks."

Nonis added that while he's not closing the door completely on a major deal, it would have to be one that's too good to pass up.

"You're always looking to get better," he said. "But it has to be a hockey deal. It has to make sense long term while helping us now as well."

Another Flame On The Block?

With pending UFAs Michael Cammalleri and Lee Stempniak already mentioned on the block, Scott Cruickshank of The Calgary Herald says the Flames would like to deal Shane O'Brien. The veteran blueliner has a $2 million cap hit tha runs through next season.

Blue line help in Philly?

Tim Panaccio of CSNPhilly.com writes that the Philadelphia Flyers will need an 'impact defenceman' if they want to make the playoffs, thinking that a player like Andrew MacDonald of the New York Islanders, Winnipeg Jets blueliner Dustin Byfuglien, Nick Schultz of the Oilers, Calgary's Dennis Wideman and Dallas Stars defenceman Trevor Daley could be a fit.

Waiting On Erat

Washington Capitals GM George McPhee will be asking disgruntled forward Martin Erat again if he wants to be traded. "I don't think that's going to change," McPhee told Chuck Gormley of CSNWashington.com. "I'll talk to him when he gets back and if he still wants to be traded, we'll try to accommodate him.

"It's been a difficult year with transactions. Had this been a typical year we might have been able to move him within weeks of his request, but that wasn't the case this year."

(The Other) Subban in Play?

With Boston's goaltending set with Tuukka Rask for years to come, Stephen Harris of The Boston Herald thinks prospect Malcolm Subban could be, 'a very valuable chip' in a possible trade if he can land a player which helps the Bruins win the Stanley Cup again.

-----------------------------------

you have to wonder what it would take to get Malcolm Subban out of Boston on some level especially knowing just how close the Subban Brothers are and how PK is possibly mulling his options in Montreal.

I dont see Subban being worth a whole lot. There is a plethora of goalie talent out there right now

[theminister]

The revisionist history that goes on in these forums is fun to read.

The team has struggled for half a season you say? I say they've struggled for 2 1/2 seasons, been swept in the first round of the playoffs two straight years and are on the verge of completely missing the playoffs this season.

All their core players are in serious decline, the team is one of the oldest in the league, the teams' trade options have been limited by the number of NTC's they have, and the prospect pool, while improved in the last couple of years, is still not deep enough.

Finally the GM, who is desperate to chase the dream for another year or two at the expense of the longer term benefit of this team goes out and signs an old school coach who clearly does not fit the type of players and game this team has been built around.

Everyone here, including myself, might be clueless, but it doesn't take a PHD to see what has and is happening with this team right now and where it might be headed if our GM continues to chase the dream while our assets with the value needed to transform this team to the next generation of Canucks continue to decline in value.

That's the pot calling the kettle black.

Struggled on their way to a 2nd straight Presidents Trophy?!? Losing Daniel Sedin to a vicious elbow, and losing to the eventual Stanley Cup winner? And we were swept? Sutter even said we were their hardest opponent that year.

Apparently you don't remember things quite as well as you think you do.

You'll understand then when the rest of us think that you're just having a spaz.

[theilluminati]

That's the pot calling the kettle black.

Struggled on their way to a 2nd straight Presidents Trophy?!? Losing Daniel Sedin to a vicious elbow, and losing to the eventual Stanley Cup winner? And we were swept? Sutter even said we were their hardest opponent that year.

Apparently you don't rember things quite as well as you think you do.

You'll understand then when the rest of us think that you're just having a spaz.

Ummm...yeah...don't speak for the rest of us because honestly if you think the Canucks have done well the last 2+ seasons then clearly you're the one having the "spaz"...( oh and what is this 1985 and are you in grade 7? who the hell uses "spaz" in the last 25 years?)

[theminister]

Ummm...yeah...don't speak for the rest of us because honestly if you think the Canucks have done well the last 2+ seasons then clearly you're the one having the "spaz"...( oh and what is this 1985 and are you in grade 7? who the hell uses "spaz" in the last 25 years?)

I'm not speaking for the rest of this fan base. I've learned long ago not to do that.

I think they did well in 2011-12... Yes, absolutely. Struggling must mean something different where you're from. Name a team that hasn't 'struggled' some in that time. Chicago? They did in 2012. Boston? Ditto. LA? This year.

I'm bringing it back.

[oldnews]

the clowns here no jack crap about managing a hockey team at the NHL. They struggle for a half season, and they call for the GM to get fired, and to trade off all core players for a bunch draft picks, and maybe 1st rounders. These place is absolutely clueless when to comes to managing a hockey club. Not that I know how to manage a hockey team myself, but most of what MIke Gillis have been doing to this team is is nothing but positive moves. Edler at 5 millino is a good signing. David Booth was also a good trade, because we still end up with a 2nd round pick, and he's not a deadbeat like Samuelson. Bieksa was a warrior in the playoffs prior to his current contract. Garrison is on pace to a 40 point season. Dan Hamhius... welll... what can I say... he made team Canada despite being the 7th dman.... The Keith Ballard trade was not the best, of course we all make mistakes and Letting Ehrhoff go was probably his worst move. But still. MIke Gillis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm chairs on Canucks.com

and regarding his worst move.....10 years for Ehrhoff was a non-starter. Good move to let him move on imo. That's a mad term.