Pyrene Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 As anyone can tell, the Canucks are not having a great year. I am NOT going to discuss lucrative deals that includes trading half the team, but rather look at what the ideal situation is. First off, Higgins is not a 2nd line player. We need a 2nd line player. Secondly, David Booth's incoming buyout is a no-brainer. Thirdly, Edler has been given more than enough time to show he's not in a massive slump / off year; while he is still recognized across the league, a deal needs to be done with him. Additionally, i truly believe the Sedins and Burrows are in a slumped off year; they've been our most consistent producers and I'm not about to give up on them. Here is what we do: -sign Tanev to a 3M/ per deal. -sign Schroeder to 1M deal -Sign Kassian to 1.5M deal. -sign Santorelli to 1.5M deal. I left Santorelli on the 4th line because we cannot bank on him being as amazing as he's been so far this year; history has shown these types of enigmatic players slow down. If he wants a roster spot, he needs to earn it. I would like him to kick off someone, and keep roster spots conpetitive. Where does this leave us? We should trade Edler + Hansen for a PP QB in someone like a Matt Carle. This leaves 11.5M in cap space for two 2nd line players. Then, trade Chris Tanev + B prospect + 1st for E. Kane. --> then we call up Corrado, and possibly Shinkaruk or Horvat, or maybe Jensen... Sedin / Sedin / Burrows E.Kane / Kesler / ______ Higgins / Schroeder / Kassian Sestito / Richardson / Santorelli Dalpe Hamhuis / Carle Bieksa / Stanton Garrison / Corrado Alberts Luongo Lack This lineup also leaves us with 4.9M in cap-space to work with. It also injects some much need youth into our system. I also left Kassian on the 3rd line because he's not yet ready for a 2nd line role; he should be eased into it. Note: Carle may not be available; he is just used as an example of what Edler should fetch. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silfverberg Snipes Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Kane is not coming here, any other team as desperate as us will have better pieces to offer. Just let that sink in so you don't have to fret about it later. I know you said Carle may not be available, but what makes you think any other above average offensive quarterback will be. I also don't like sacrificing Hansen and Edler to upgrade in one area. We have really poor depth on our right wing and Hansen is a player that can slide seamlessly up and down the line-up. The bottom line here is that we're fracked. A rebuild is on the horizon and I think it's better we start sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 You re-sign Tanev, then trade him to WPG? Bad GM101, right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Kane is not coming here, any other team as desperate as us will have better pieces to offer. Just let that sink in so you don't have to fret about it later. I know you said Carle may not be available, but what makes you think any other above average offensive quarterback will be. I also don't like sacrificing Hansen and Edler to upgrade in one area. We have really poor depth on our right wing and Hansen is a player that can slide seamlessly up and down the line-up. The bottom line here is that we're fracked. A rebuild is on the horizon and I think it's better we start sooner than later. Under normal circumstances, I think he would come, but the fact that it has turned out into an all out bidding war, no way Vancouver wins as I'm sure some team will give an arm and a leg for him. Hopefully we can sign him when he becomes a free agent. I would suggest actually, going after Andrew Ladd. 4.4 mill cap hit for this season plus 2 more. From around Vancouver similar to Kane, and can be a major piece. We have a chance at being able to get him and who knows, maybe if we sign him, Evander will be more willing to sign with us when he is ufa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzy Mahmood Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'd rather trade Bieksa, or Garrison, or Stanton, or Corrado, or Edler, before Tanev. He is absolutely vital to the long-term success of our franchise, and would be one of my seven NTC players if you could edit player contracts: Henrik Sedin Daniel Sedin Ryan Kesler Zack Kassian Dan Hamhuis Chris Tanev Roberto Luongo All other players would not have NTCs and be up for discussion. Add to those seven our top prospects: Bo Horvat Hunter Shinkaruk Brendan Gaunce Nicklas Jensen Frankie Corrado And the lesser guys that I would keep ideally: Ryan Stanton Eddie Lack Tom Sestito Dale Weise Mike Santorelli Brad Richardson And you have a core that looks dynamite: Sedin-Sedin-Kassian ?-Horvat-Kesler Shinkaruk-Gaunce-Santorelli Sestito-Richardson-Weise Hamhuis-? ?-Tanev Stanton-Corrado Luongo Lack Question is, how to fill those gaps? Trade-able players + assets: Alex Burrows Jannik Hansen Chris Higgins Kevin Bieksa (NTC) Jason Garrison (NTC) Alex Edler (NTC) 1st 2nd MG should easily be able to acquire two top 4 D and one top 6 forward through Free Agency and trades with a stockpile like that. I'm thinking: Tyler Myers to play with Hamhuis Andrew Ladd to play with Horvat + Kesler Willie Mitchell to play with Tanev Willie Mitchell - 3 years, $10.5m ($3.5m per season) Trades: To Buffalo: Alex Edler (ask to waive NTC) + Jannik Hansen To Vancouver: Tyler Myers To Winnipeg: Chris Higgins + Frankie Corrado + 2nd round pick To Vancouver: Andrew Ladd + 4th round pick Sedin-Sedin-Kassian Ladd-Horvat-Kesler Burrows-Gaunce-Santorelli Sestito-Richardson-Weise Shinkaruk (13th man but subs into top 9) Archibald (14th man for muscle) Hamhuis-Myers Mitchell-Tanev Stanton-Bieksa Garrison (yes, 7th D man on that salary...) Luongo Lack $722k under the $71m cap for next season, and that is one team I would be VERY excited to watch. And it only involved two trades and one UFA signing, all it takes is to convince Edler to move. And to do that? Sit him now for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayRayDown Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think Kassian should be a top 6 next year. He is showing he can contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Here's how I view next years roster: Sedin - Sedin - _____ _____ - Kesler - Kassian Higgins - Horvat - Burrows Sestito/Archibald - Richardson - Santorelli Hamhuis - Tanev Garrison - _____ Stanton - Bieksa/_____ Lack/_____ _____/Lack/Eriksson Have Sestito and Archibald rotate in the line up every now and then and trade some big pieces like Edler, Luongo, Hansen, Bieksa, and picks. Players to target via trade/free agency: - Thomas Vanek - Evander Kane - Ryan Ellis - Jakub Voracek Try to trade for anyone proven that's 24 or younger. IMO picking up a young puck moving D man like Ryan Ellis would do nothing but wonders for this team going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawkdrummer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 random thoughts... I don't see this team as it stands doing much better till we can move assets in the summer. I don't care if make the playoffs this year as it's very doubtful this team has the scoring to get past the first round. We should be playing Kassian as much as possible now so he can gain the experience needed to be a reliable top 6 forward for next season. Are Jensen and Schroeder top 6 players? Why is Jensen not even getting a shot with the big club? (perhaps I just answered my own question) I don't think Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce will be ready to help us next year and they shouldn't be rushed they should be developed. It's a process! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 11th overall in the league despite this awful stretch. Still holding down a playoff spot and only 3 points behind the allegedly far superior LA Kings. Despite the sky is falling mentality that has pervaded this board and fan base recently, realizing that a season has peaks and valleys is a much healthier mental approach to being a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 OP, the 'thirdly' and 'additionally' you list contradict each other. You believe the Sedins and Burrows are just in a slump but Edler is not despite similar amounts of time underperforming offensively? You'll need to back that up more to make a serious argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrene Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 OP, the 'thirdly' and 'additionally' you list contradict each other. You believe the Sedins and Burrows are just in a slump but Edler is not despite similar amounts of time underperforming offensively? You'll need to back that up more to make a serious argument. my bad on the grammar. However, I do believe Edler is in more than just a slump... Under the new systems by AV and Torts, the Sedins and Burrows have scored less, and so have Edler. Whats the difference though? Other d-man have shown to score points under this system whereas Edler has not. Other forwards have shown to be just in much as a scoring drought as the Sedins and Burrows. Its a game of comparisons. anyways, replying to the other posters, 1. right wings is something we are abundant at. Richardson and Santorelli can also play wing. 2. to whoever suggest WIllie Mitchell, another shutdown dman is the last thing we need; we need a PP QB. That's why i suggest even possibly over-paying for one. 3. one of the poster may have a point about Tanev. Moving possibly Garrison + B Prospect + 1st for a 2nd line winger possble? 4. I do not believe Kassian can step into a 2nd line role EFFECTIVELY. Anyone that cannot score 50+ points consistently should not be on the 2nd line. Thats why I said Higgins is not a 2nd line forward. He is an extremely good 3rd liner. However, I project the second line to have a 3rd spot for a possible position for either Kassian, Santorelli, or maybe Higgins. Its the best we can do under our circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The problem wasn't with using thirdly and additionally, rather that you used the same argument to support two different outcomes. As far as the extra reasoning you've supplied now, Higgins is quietly having a good year. Santorelli has increased his scoring over previous years and Kassian has actually done well. Weise and Richardson are also scoring well for their roles, so really it's just our top four of the Sedins, Kesler and Burrows (maybe if you want to include Hansen) that are underperforming offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrene Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 The problem wasn't with using thirdly and additionally, rather that you used the same argument to support two different outcomes. As far as the extra reasoning you've supplied now, Higgins is quietly having a good year. Santorelli has increased his scoring over previous years and Kassian has actually done well. Weise and Richardson are also scoring well for their roles, so really it's just our top four of the Sedins, Kesler and Burrows (maybe if you want to include Hansen) that are underperforming offensively. Higgin's definition of a "good year" is being on pace for47 pts despite being so hot for awhile now. Like I said, he's an extremely solid 3rd liner. Kassian, unless he plays stellar, will not score 50 next season. We can't bank on guys always having good years; rather, bank on them to play average. However, if they do play good, thats why theres that spot on the 2nd line for whoever plays well. Kesler is underperforming because of the lack of offensive linemates / a puck moving dman. The Sedins? honestly I just want to have good faith that they'll do better next year. They proved they haven't regressed with their start of year play. They lack that puck moving dman Edler is supposed to be. The roster I proposed isn't even a SCF worthy team, its just a small step along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Using point production as a reason for where you slot a player into the lineup is flawed thinking. In fact, for this season, you can't use anyone's point production as the root of an argument as the lines have been juggled so much it's amazing anyone has any scoring consistency. Given how this season has played out, it safe to say that MG, Torts and the rest of the coaching staff has made chicken soup outta chicken s**t. If the playoffs started today, Canucks would be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappipappi Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 To Winnipeg: Chris Higgins + Frankie Corrado + 2nd round pick To Vancouver: Andrew Ladd + 4th round pick Winnipeg isn't trading their best player and captain for some junk. He has more trade value than Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Edler > Carle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thad Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Edler > Carle Big time haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrene Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Edler > Carle Depends on the aspect of play. Carle's own zone play may be bad, but at least he knows what to do with the puck in the offensive zone. We have a plethora of stay-at home dmens in Garrison, Hamhuis, Tanev, Stanton and up and coming Corrado for that job. I loved AV"s 1 o-zone dman and 1 d-zone dman and it worked miracles that year. Remember when GM MG wanted 200 pts out of the dcore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzy Mahmood Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Winnipeg isn't trading their best player and captain for some junk. He has more trade value than Horvat. Says you. Higgins is a 40-50 point scorer, not far off of Ladd in all honesty, they gain Corrado who would be a great addition to their D core, and the 2nd pick also has value. If the Peg trade Ladd, no way do they get a prospect like Horvat. From anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappipappi Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Says you. Higgins is a 40-50 point scorer, not far off of Ladd in all honesty, they gain Corrado who would be a great addition to their D core, and the 2nd pick also has value. If the Peg trade Ladd, no way do they get a prospect like Horvat. From anyone. Even comparing Higgins to Ladd shows how little you know about what Ladd brings to a team. I'm surprised you'd even want him playing for the Canucks. And the Jets would get the value of Horvat+ if they decided to move him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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