theilluminati Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Tanking does not build championship teams. Strong leadership and shrewd asset management does. Chicago was a joke even with the same core players until ownership changed and Scotty bowman became a consultant. LA underachieved because of god awful coaching and it took getting Sutter and making the ballsy move to get Jeff carter which got them the cup. St Louis looked like they'd be losers forever until Hitchcock came in and properly steered the ship. Detroit has always stayed successful because their top players mentor their younger ones and they develop their game to the Max by following the lead of champions. Poor leadership is why tanking teams such as the oilers, islanders and flames stay on the bottom of the pile despite getting in top drafting position year after year. You have to ask yourself: why would I want to be associated with losers who are ok staying as losers? But the Canucks haven't been a "championship" calibre team for almost 3 seasons now, are you saying that for the last 3 seasons the Canucks have poor leadership and that Gillis has managed his assests poorly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 But the Canucks haven't been a "championship" calibre team for almost 3 seasons now, are you saying that for the last 3 seasons the Canucks have poor leadership and that Gillis has managed his assests poorly? Yes, I thought that AV was not a good coach for the playoffs. Gimmicks such as pinching the D and the weird zone to man-to-man to zone switches left the team exposed and did not give the best chance to win when the play was ramped up. Also I think it's indefensible that he would rarely talk to his players esp when quick adjustments needed to be made. Asset management wise, Gillis has over valued the core and given too many NTCs. An argument can be made that some of those players would walk but that's ok if they can be replaced. Burrows, Bieksa and Edler could have walked and I don't think there would be any impact on winning and losing. As long as there's strong goaltending the emphasis should be on obtaining pure offensive talent which would ultimately decide games. We had problems with hodgson before With a contender. if the canucks decide to purposefully tank and we do draft a stud, we could have the same problems over again. I think under torts we are on the right track although he isn't perfect and getting horvat is also heading in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Doctor Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 As much as I love the twins, I don't see how giving them a raise will help us out in the future. This year they have been dismal. Do you really want to make the playoffs with this team? Our core players have had years to get the job done. It's time for change, a new identity, and youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 As much as I love the twins, I don't see how giving them a raise will help us out in the future. This year they have been dismal. Do you really want to make the playoffs with this team? Our core players have had years to get the job done. It's time for change, a new identity, and youth. Gillis should have told them he won't negotiate til after the season. This would have fired them up for the whole season, not just the beginning before the contract extension was made. I understand trade deadline rumours are distracting but the year that LA won the cup, Dustin brown was thought to be moved for sure and he comes out firing a hat trick and proving he should stay. Now instead of a fired up team with options of salary cap flexibility, we have a complacent team with toxic contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Hard Truth Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This team is pure garbage right now, serious mental problems which can only be addressed by trading at least 2-3 core members. very troubling that Daniel Sedin is the new Scott Gomez , actually even The scoreless Gomez is of more use than this version of Daniel Sedin right now. Take a look at the guys making over 4 million on this team, pretty much the most useless and biggest liabilities. No hunger anymore , Blow it up Gillis or step aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Hard Truth Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Gillis should have told them he won't negotiate til after the season. This would have fired them up for the whole season, not just the beginning before the contract extension was made. I understand trade deadline rumours are distracting but the year that LA won the cup, Dustin brown was thought to be moved for sure and he comes out firing a hat trick and proving he should stay. Now instead of a fired up team with options of salary cap flexibility, we have a complacent team with toxic contracts. I agree, the sedins had no interest in leaving vancouver would have made way more sense to watch them do their usual disappearing act in the spring and then re sign them for 2 years at 5 mill at 2nd line money. There isn't a chance in hell that the sedins will bring vancouver a cup as it's first line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I agree, the sedins had no interest in leaving vancouver would have made way more sense to watch them do their usual disappearing act in the spring and then re sign them for 2 years at 5 mill at 2nd line money. There isn't a chance in hell that the sedins will bring vancouver a cup as it's first line. We need our GM to be tough like Kevin spacey's character in house of cards. I think that the sedins would have blinked first too. Also if they did leave it's not the end of the world as cap savings would allow the team to cherry pick their next superstar players. My prediction with the new CBA and the buried players cap hits restricting teams even further combined with retained salary transactions being allowed is that prime players can be had for below trade market value once the cap mismanagement kicks in. If the canucks had cap space they could seize those opportunities. Now they are on the wrong end where they would get lower trade value for toxic contracts leaving them in weak position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMelvin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 They'll have a tale or two to tell when you come back from the playoffsBut can anyone promise that they will come back as they did before....?No. And if they do, they will not be the same...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This team is elite and they can compete. If they get some decent coaching they can compete with the best. No need to tank. Two crappy play off exits says this team isn't elite. You're trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure010 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 LA went 13-9 the last 22 games to reach the bottom of the playoff ladder before becoming Stanley Cup Champions and I think people consider them elite. Granted Vancouver isn't LA but some food for thought. I also don't think they were banged up and injured as much as the Canucks are now though I agree elite teams still manage to win games in spite of injuries.Gillis is really in a rock and a hard place with the fans. If he sticks with the core, he's accused of being Calgary 2.0. If he blows up the team and stocks up on youth, then he's Edmonton 2.0. Regardless there's no pleasing the fanbase as it seems 43 years of patience has worn out. if we do that we aren't making the playoffs. that will only give us 89 points we"re going to need to win 17 or 18 of those games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gumballthechewy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm with Primal Optimist. Hoping for failure, no matter what the ultimate benefit just goes against my grain. Honestly, the collective angst in this thread (and on the boards for the past month) makes me shake my head. Yes, it sucks losing, especially the way the Canucks have been doing so, but if it really bothers people that much, maybe take up another hobby or start cheering for the Ducks, Hawks or Penguins. And spare me the "I've been watching this team for X amount of years!" routine. I've been following the 'Nucks since day 1. Personally, I watch and hope for the best, but when it doesn't happen, I don't start looking for the nearest bridge to jump off of. Conversely, I don't start planning the parade after an early season win streak. (nor do I anoint the coach as "the best ever!") I enjoy hockey for what it is: The game I love and have been immersed in for 47 years. I understand that there are no guarantees and the "I complain because I care" mantra makes no sense to me. Neither the players, the coaches, nor management give a fig what you think, so you're really wasting your time and causing yourself undue stress. The team turning things around at this point certainly looks like a long shot, but that's what makes sport great. The unexpected sometimes does happen. people in this thread can go ahead and say "it's impossible", but I'm not throwing in the towel until the math tells me it is. Well said, my feelings are the same. Why can't more fans be like you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 ^ I believe this is a big part of it. With most things, if it seems hopeless/pointless, people will give up. Which is sad. So many things could be factoring in and I believe they are. I concur. That is why this break is going to be good for the team. Change of context should help the team out, and the time for others to heal will help. We just have to remember that they need to get into the win 4 out of 7 routine from this point out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theilluminati Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I concur. That is why this break is going to be good for the team. Change of context should help the team out, and the time for others to heal will help. We just have to remember that they need to get into the win 4 out of 7 routine from this point out. Win 4 out of 7 routine..??...With 22 games left that means that they would basically go 12-10 or 13-9 which would leave them with less than 90pts and somewhere around 10th-11th in the West. To be safe in 7th-8th they need 93-96pts which means they need 30+pts at minimum. 5 out of 7 then maybe, 4 out of 7 then start looking at who is available in the 13th-14th draft spot in June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Two crappy play off exits says this team isn't elite. You're trolling. What did Chicago do in 2011 and 2012 again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Win 4 out of 7 routine..??...With 22 games left that means that they would basically go 12-10 or 13-9 which would leave them with less than 90pts and somewhere around 10th-11th in the West. To be safe in 7th-8th they need 93-96pts which means they need 30+pts at minimum. 5 out of 7 then maybe, 4 out of 7 then start looking at who is available in the 13th-14th draft spot in June. This is true. The 4 games between the Olympics and the deadline will determine our season. Win 3/4 and look refreshed, and Gillis will probably be a buyer. Whereas if we stumble out of the gate and lose 3/4, we're probably done, and will sell off a couple players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure010 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 What did Chicago do in 2011 and 2012 again? so we're just not going to mention what they did in 2010 and 2013 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Right now the only Canadian teams in the playoffs are Montreal and Toronto and we trail them by 7 points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure010 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Right now the only Canadian teams in the playoffs are Montreal and Toronto and we trail them by 7 points! and they're going to be the only 2 canadian teams when the regular season is over as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 so we're just not going to mention what they did in 2010 and 2013 then? The guy said that "two crappy playoff exits" means your team is not elite. Simply proving that was a false statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycry Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 What did Chicago do in 2011 and 2012 again? at least they didn't get swept during those 2 years lol...and they did do a decent push back during 11. 2 cups for 4 years VS 0 in 43? lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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