nuck nit Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Nope. That's largely your own spin/bias/opinion.What a load of cheap mouthwash you gurgle us with.RLR succinctly told it as it is and you demean an intelligent fan of this franchise by spinning your nonsense.27th place PP-from 1st three years ago.29th place team in goals scored -from 1st in the league three years ago.13th place PK-from 2nd in the league three years ago.29th place GPG -from 1st three years ago.First place in the NHL three years ago to a team that can't win two games in a row for months on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 You should go for a walk and get some fresh air. Life's short 13,000 points suggests you should take your own advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J529 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What a load of cheap mouthwash you gurgle us with. RLR succinctly told it as it is and you demean an intelligent fan of this franchise by spinning your nonsense. 27th place PP-from 1st three years ago. 29th place team in goals scored -from 1st in the league three years ago. 13th place PK-from 2nd in the league three years ago. 29th place GPG -from 1st three years ago. First place in the NHL three years ago to a team that can't win two games in a row for months on end. I was having the same exact argument yesterday with him and few others. Don't waste your time with them. Not worth it. 100% agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Don't have a problem with trading Cody, have a problem with trading Cody for Kassian at the deadline when we have 2 injured centers and a lack of goal scoring. Do you actually believe Hodgson would have led us to the cup in that playoffs? Did he manage to save Buffalo's season and make the playoffs? Nope. That's exactly why Buffalo wanted him. I don't think keeping him would have got us past LA any more than saving Buffalo's playoff dream. So what difference did the timing really make? None. It take TWO teams getting what they need to complete a trade. Buffalo was not going to wait until the off-season to move Kassian. They were 3 wins out of the playoffs and in need of a center. Which is why Kassian was made available at the deadline. That deal wouldn't have been there come summer. Kassian was getting moved for a center at that time. I fully expected Hodgson to be moved at the end of the season but moving him at the deadline wasn't going to make much difference to our fate. It was a case of getting what you wanted for him when it became available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 As was stated, our prospect pool is one of if not the worst in the league. MG has done some good, but I would like to see someone else take this team forward for the next few years. We need an injection of fresh talented smart and bold people running the show. Gillis needs to go. Well if somebody else took over now he'd certainly be inheriting a much better prospect pool than Gillis did when he took over. Talk about a bare cupboard. Gillis started out with a half decent core with no quality prospects to inject into the roster at a friendly elc cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I was having the same exact argument yesterday with him and few others. Don't waste your time with them. Not worth it. 100% agree with you. You had no argument with anybody..you couldn't back up a single thing you were talking about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Stanley Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The thing is - there are a paucity of good GMs out there well managed teams - good drafting, good trades, respectable organization, make a profit, get good attendance, good on ice product -CHI -BOS -DET -LA -SJS -PIT -STL -CBJ - recently up and coming TB PHX (both good drafting and player development) COL mediocre WSH - Mcphee is spinning his wheels PHI MTL WIN DAL OTT NSH VAN - a fall from grace - Luongo, Coho, schneider, Erhoff, Torres - amazing how these guys left and we have almost nothing on our roster to show for these guys... poorly run CGY EDM TOR NYI FLA NJ - gong show but they still managed to get schneider at a steal NYR CAR MIN most of these guys are imbeciles and so the only way Gillis would lose his job is if there is a great candidate waiting - I think Jason Botterill could be that guy - well trained, educated former player who is an assistant GM in PIT, most successful GMs come from Assit GM jobs Gillis is thinking about hiring a GM and staying on solely as President like Kevin Lowe, that way Gillis has 2 lines of protection between himself and the street (coach and new GM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 VAN - a fall from grace - Luongo, Coho, schneider, Erhoff, Torres - amazing how these guys left and we have almost nothing on our roster to show for these guys... If you don't show the returns everyone will think Gillis did worse than he actually did. Luongo- Markstrom(Future#1) Maithas(Solid #3 Centre) Schneider- Bo Horvat(Future #1-3 Centre) CoHo- Kassian(Future PWF) Erhoff- 4th Round Pick which was traded for Pahlson but Gillis made up for it by selecting a stud of a puck moving Dman in Ben Hutton in the 5th Round. Torres- no return but he would have been suspended with the way he was playing with us and the way we get suspensions which is why Gillis didn't re-sign him. To sum it all up we got Maithas, Markstrom, Horvat, Kassian and a recovery pick in Ben Hutton which may not have happened had we not traded Ehrhoff. I think it's unfair to judge everything right now Gillis is clearly building towards the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 If you don't show the returns everyone will think Gillis did worse than he actually did. Luongo- Markstrom(Future#1) Maithas(Solid #3 Centre)Schneider- Bo Horvat(Future #1-3 Centre)CoHo- Kassian(Future PWF)Erhoff- 4th Round Pick which was traded for Pahlson but Gillis made up for it by selecting a stud of a puck moving Dman in Ben Hutton in the 5th Round.Torres- no return but he would have been suspended with the way he was playing with us and the way we get suspensions which is why Gillis didn't re-sign him. To sum it all up we got Maithas, Markstrom, Horvat, Kassian and a recovery pick in Ben Hutton which may not have happened had we not traded Ehrhoff. I think it's unfair to judge everything right now Gillis is clearly building towards the future. Wasnt the Luongo trade.. Luongo for Matthias,Markstrom,4.5 m cap space I'm not 100% on how much of Luongos salary Florida was taking on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Wasnt the Luongo trade.. Luongo for Matthias,Markstrom,4.5 m cap space I'm not 100% on how much of Luongos salary Florida was taking on Anyway ..the cap space puts the trade into proper perspective.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What a load of cheap mouthwash you gurgle us with. RLR succinctly told it as it is and you demean an intelligent fan of this franchise by spinning your nonsense. 27th place PP-from 1st three years ago. 29th place team in goals scored -from 1st in the league three years ago. 13th place PK-from 2nd in the league three years ago. 29th place GPG -from 1st three years ago. First place in the NHL three years ago to a team that can't win two games in a row for months on end. amen brother .. amen ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What a load of cheap mouthwash you gurgle us with. RLR succinctly told it as it is and you demean an intelligent fan of this franchise by spinning your nonsense. 27th place PP-from 1st three years ago. 29th place team in goals scored -from 1st in the league three years ago. 13th place PK-from 2nd in the league three years ago. 29th place GPG -from 1st three years ago. First place in the NHL three years ago to a team that can't win two games in a row for months on end. Maybe injuries (especially to our first line) had something to do with it..?..just throwing it out there..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The thing is - there are a paucity of good GMs out there well managed teams - good drafting, good trades, respectable organization, make a profit, get good attendance, good on ice product -CHI -BOS -DET -LA -SJS -PIT -STL -CBJ - recently up and coming TB PHX (both good drafting and player development) COL mediocre WSH - Mcphee is spinning his wheels PHI MTL WIN DAL OTT NSH VAN - a fall from grace - Luongo, Coho, schneider, Erhoff, Torres - amazing how these guys left and we have almost nothing on our roster to show for these guys... poorly run CGY EDM TOR NYI FLA NJ - gong show but they still managed to get schneider at a steal NYR CAR MIN most of these guys are imbeciles and so the only way Gillis would lose his job is if there is a great candidate waiting - I think Jason Botterill could be that guy - well trained, educated former player who is an assistant GM in PIT, most successful GMs come from Assit GM jobs Gillis is thinking about hiring a GM and staying on solely as President like Kevin Lowe, that way Gillis has 2 lines of protection between himself and the street (coach and new GM). Oh I was expecting the Rangers in the "mediocre" section, it's almost never a poorly operated team, but I guess perhaps this year. Calgary has gone through some changes, I'm GLAD they got rid of Daryl Sutter after all those years and I'm seeing the same thing with the Canucks, the owners are hanging onto the GM far too long. Winnipeg has been winning "important" games lately, looks like they got eyes on a playoff spot, I'm interested in this and will be watching them if they do make the playoffs, Byfuglien is my man. When Atlanta had their Thrashers, their crowd capacity was often at less than half, they didn't really deserve a hockey team, Atlanta is more interested in their Hawks basketball team. Anyhow, onto the top teams, San Jose has been a really solid team for years, that one year where they only had 12 loses in a full season, holy cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Oh I was expecting the Rangers in the "mediocre" section, it's almost never a poorly operated team, but I guess perhaps this year. Calgary has gone through some changes, I'm GLAD they got rid of Daryl Sutter after all those years and I'm seeing the same thing with the Canucks, the owners are hanging onto the GM far too long. Winnipeg has been winning "important" games lately, looks like they got eyes on a playoff spot, I'm interested in this and will be watching them if they do make the playoffs, Byfuglien is my man. When Atlanta had their Thrashers, their crowd capacity was often at less than half, they didn't really deserve a hockey team, Atlanta is more interested in their Hawks basketball team. Anyhow, onto the top teams, San Jose has been a really solid team for years, that one year where they only had 12 loses in a full season, holy cow. Far too long? Really? When would you have advocated for his removal? 2011 offseason? The real problem with Gillis that I have right now is that I don't know how involved ownership is in "helping" him manage the team. It becomes difficult to lay blame on a GM if there is any meddling going on. Changing the GM won't change much if that is the case. Of course, there is always the idea that maybe he was asked not to make any big trades, other than Luongo, because he will be fired after the season should the Canucks not make the playoffs and the new GM will be given carte blanche to do as he sees fit. I'm on the fence about which one I want. The team isn't garbage by any stretch. Horrible injury luck, and bad years for all the top players led to this. Core gets another year older as well, which sounds rather silly as it doesn't just happen overnight, but there is significance to it. I want this team to be competitive for the long haul, which means asset management. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying people on this board are rather divisive on whether or not Gillis is good at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Nope. That's largely your own spin/bias/opinion. Gillis keeps making decisions that do not follow logically, for example we had a team that relied heavily on goaltending and he just up and trades away 2 world class goaltenders within a matter of months. Gilly! For gods sake keep one at least! He makes a certain decision here and another one there, and on their own they might even seem reasonable when they are made. Unfortunately, overall they just dont combine together very sensibly at all. Lack now carries an insanely unreasonable burden that should never be placed on an inexperienced goaltender. He has no real back up or veteran presence in a market that is as hostile as any towards inconsistent goaltending. Somehow I question Gillis abilities to stick with an actual plan for a rebuild in light of such decisions, ones Im certain he himself had no clue he was going to eventually end up making even months before. Youre right though, this is obviously my overactive imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Traded 3 - 2nds The times he kept his 2nds, he drafted, Yann Sauve Anton Rodin Alexander Mallet For theThe 3 - 2nds he traded he acquired Derek Roy Steve Bernier a 3rd a 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What a load of cheap mouthwash you gurgle us with. RLR succinctly told it as it is and you demean an intelligent fan of this franchise by spinning your nonsense. 27th place PP-from 1st three years ago. 29th place team in goals scored -from 1st in the league three years ago. 13th place PK-from 2nd in the league three years ago. 29th place GPG -from 1st three years ago. First place in the NHL three years ago to a team that can't win two games in a row for months on end. I would suggest you take a read in this thread, LUCKY#4 summarized this year up nicely. http://forum.canucks.com/topic/358400-before-you-play-the-blame-game-kinda-long-read/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Gillis keeps making decisions that do not follow logically, for example we had a team that relied heavily on goaltending and he just up and trades away 2 world class goaltenders within a matter of months. Gilly! For gods sake keep one at least! He makes a certain decision here and another one there, and on their own they might even seem reasonable when they are made. Unfortunately, overall they just dont combine together very sensibly at all. Lack now carries an insanely unreasonable burden that should never be placed on an inexperienced goaltender. He has no real back up or veteran presence in a market that is as hostile as any towards inconsistent goaltending. Somehow I question Gillis abilities to stick with an actual plan for a rebuild in light of such decisions, ones Im certain he himself had no clue he was going to eventually end up making even months before. Youre right though, this is obviously my overactive imagination. I would take a guess and say that in order to be a GM..you have to have a plan and be spontaneous at the same time.. As far as the goalies go..who knew that Luongo was going to be out played by his subordinate twice..?..Who knew that Luongos contract after the revised CBA would become untradeable..You cannot plan for any of those scenarios .. The plan of retooling and getting younger has been underway for some time now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Maybe injuries (especially to our first line) had something to do with it..?..just throwing it out there..! And that's the point we seem to be making where the symptoms others are seeing aren't caused by Gillis directly yet they want to attribute them largely to him. What they fail to see, perhaps in part because it's not as simple a solution as to blame the one guy at the top, is there are many causes behind the Canucks not performing as well the past few years. To put it simply, Burrows not scoring a goal for the first 3/4ths of the season had more to do with our dropping offensive production than Gillis and his drafting, trading, etc. Clearly there are other factors as well, but it's that misinterpretation of the causes for the symptoms people want to blame on Gillis that causes much of the hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Traded 3 - 2nds The times he kept his 2nds, he drafted, Yann Sauve Anton Rodin Alexander Mallet For theThe 3 - 2nds he traded he acquired Derek Roy Steve Bernier a 3rd a 4th Ok, so he hasn't done well when trading seconds. Mallet may still work out but is a project, Roy is still a good player but didn't adjust to be successful here. That's one small sub-section of what Gillis has done. BTW, I laughed at how the infographic displayed the pie chart of trades. It's a great example of how data can be used to misrepresent what is actually happening. What he's actually trying to display is 4 pie pieces based on the number of trades any particular team has had, where each pie piece shows the number of teams for each line: 1 team with 7 trades 1 team with 3 trades 4 teams with 2 trades 13 teams with 1 trade What he should have tried to display is a pie piece for each team signifying the number of trades (19 total pieces): 1 team with 7 trades 1 team with 3 trades 1 team with 2 trades 1 team with 2 trades 1 team with 2 trades 1 team with 2 trades 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade 1 team with 1 trade Instead, he used a part of one chart (1 pie piece for 13 different teams having only 1 trade) combined with a part of a different chart (1 pie piece for each team traded with having 2 or more trades) and changed the scale of the pieces in relation to the other, causing Florida to show as much more of an impact than it actually is. I'm not saying 7 trades with 1 team isn't a lot - it is - but it's still less than 13 trades with 13 teams. The chart doesn't show that at all though. Some of those 7 trades have been good, some bad. Some of those 13 trades have been good, some bad. But the impact of those 7 trades isn't 7 times more than the 13 trades as displayed in the chart. A nice lazy day meant I thought I'd put those two options into pivot charts of my own. Here's the visual of the two scenarios I presented above as a correct chart rather than what was in the infographic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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