[Official] Toronto Blue Jays Major League Baseball thread

[komodo1970]

Sad to see Lawrie traded. Played his heart out for the Jays and brought passion. Too bad he couldn t stay healthy. Sad way to see him go though.

Good luck in Oakland.

[Wilbur]

I'll repeat the sentiment that it's sad to see Lawrie go but I think we'll soon forget about him once we realize what the Jays have in Donaldson. Lawrie was a blood and guts player that wanted to win very badly, but I don't think he was the heart and soul of the clubhouse. That label belongs to Baustista still.

In Lind and Lawrie, AA has traded away two players that they weren't able to count on everyday for production. Both always seemed to get injured and Lind just can't hit lefties anymore. These guys always created roster headaches because you always had to have a replacement nearby. The Jays now have a lot more flexibility on their bench, it seemed last year they always had 3 guys around that could play only 1st and 3rd in Valencia, Johnson, and Francisco.

It's not just fair to project Lawrie's 70 games and compare, you should compare what Donaldson will do (in a more hitter friendly park) to Lawrie/Valencia/Francisco.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Wilbur

[canuckfan_21]

Some would argue that Lawrie was the heart and soul of the Jays.

One thing is for sure, you can never doubt his passion for the game. The guy always gave 110% on the field.

I'd rather the heart and soul of two guys who were on playoff teams than one that was part of a midseason collapse

[TheRussianRocket.]

Some would argue that Lawrie was the heart and soul of the Jays.

One thing is for sure, you can never doubt his passion for the game. The guy always gave 110% on the field.

I think that's a pretty inaccurate statement. Lawrie in no way was the heart and soul of this team. I think I know what you're trying to say, he was a motivator and a guy who got everyone pumped up, but not close to heart and soul.

Sure he's a good player - not great by any means - but inconsistency and injuries. Yea he has crazy passion but I think it hurt him at times going overboard with it.

Donaldson is pretty much what Bautista is to us, and that's always an upgrade over a guy like Lawrie. Not to mention Jays never really gave up any of their better young pitchers who may not even pan out, and a steal of a contract that Donaldson has, it's a great move.

I love Lawrie and how proudly he wore the Maple Leaf but putting the personal attachment aside of seeing a Canadian boy like him gone, 99% of people will tell you Jays won this. Only people that won't are guys that watch baseball here and there and see Lawrie highlights and think he brings that every game. Reality is he doesn't and he's far too inconsistent for this team at this point.

[shiznak]

People are too gaga over his one MVP season two years ago, other than that, he that type of player who will probably fall into obscurity in the next few seasons ala David Freese.

Remember when AA got Dickey, Johnson, Buehrle and everybody was on the Jays bandwagon praising AA? Well, how did that turn out? I have no doubt that, this move is just a last ditch effort from AA trying to save his job.

Like I said the Jays have bigger concerns right now, than adding another power bat.

[g_bassi13]

I thought one of my shirts would be relevant for much longer than the other. I was wrong about which.

[TheRussianRocket.]

People are too gaga over his one MVP season two years ago, other than that, he that type of player who will probably fall into obscurity in the next few seasons ala David Freese.

Remember when AA got Dickey, Johnson, Buehrle and everybody was on the Jays bandwagon praising AA? Well, how did that turn out? I have no doubt that, this move is just a last ditch effort from AA trying to save his job.

Like I said the Jays have bigger concerns right now, than adding another power bat.

True, though Buehrle has been lights out, Johnson was coming off injury and knew he lost a step (was a matter of he could pick off where he left off and he never), and Dickey has been alright.

Agree we need help elsewhere but with Melky looking like he's not coming back, someone had to replace what he brought and Davidson will do that.

[g_bassi13]

People are too gaga over his one MVP season two years ago, other than that, he that type of player who will probably fall into obscurity in the next few seasons ala David Freese.

Remember when AA got Dickey, Johnson, Buehrle and everybody was on the Jays bandwagon praising AA? Well, how did that turn out? I have no doubt that, this move is just a last ditch effort from AA trying to save his job.

Like I said the Jays have bigger concerns right now, than adding another power bat.

Of course his job is on the line, but that doesn't mean much as to whether or not he's leaving the team better off or not. Would agree that upgrading Lawrie was not their biggest need, but that doesn't mean that solidifying their top of the batting order like this is not going to help. Nor is it fair to assume Donaldson is going to tail off his all-star play just because.

And this move doesn't handicap them much moving forward in this off season. It's not like AA threw all his assets at this trade, or that they're now completely handicapped from a financial standpoint regarding UfAs when they weren't before.

As a fan, getting optimistic at bringing in a player like Donaldson is a completely legitimate response. No one is planning the parade, but things add up.

[shiznak]

Of course his job is on the line, but that doesn't mean much as to whether or not he's leaving the team better off or not. Would agree that upgrading Lawrie was not their biggest need, but that doesn't mean that solidifying their top of the batting order like this is not going to help. Nor is it fair to assume Donaldson is going to tail off his all-star play just because.

And this move doesn't handicap them much moving forward in this off season. It's not like AA threw all his assets at this trade, or that they're now completely handicapped from a financial standpoint regarding UfAs when they weren't before.

As a fan, getting optimistic at bringing in a player like Donaldson is a completely legitimate response. No one is planning the parade, but things add up.

If they wanted to solidify their top of the battling order then they could have just brought in Norichika Aoki, who can replace Melky's OBP. Martin would be the guy who replaces his bat, then they can spend money elsewhere without giving up any assets.

[g_bassi13]

If they wanted to solidify their top of the battling order then they could have just brought in Norichika Aoki, who can replace Melky's OBP. Martin would be the guy who replaces his bat, then they can spend money elsewhere without giving up any assets.

We traded for a 3rd baseman with a 3rd baseman plus spare parts. I don't see how this has much of a bearing on acquiring aoki, or anyone else for that matter really. We need more upgrades yes, but AA is still within his powers to make them.

[Wilbur]

If they wanted to solidify their top of the battling order then they could have just brought in Norichika Aoki, who can replace Melky's OBP. Martin would be the guy who replaces his bat, then they can spend money elsewhere without giving up any assets.

There is no reason the Jays still can't pursue Melky or Aoki, this trade, as stated above, hasn't tied up much more money.

[Guest]

Terrible trade, and not because Lawrie is my favourite player.

Donaldson is essentially a power hitter, and that's the least of the Jays concerns, right now. Offensively, he's not that much of an upgrade, from Lawrie. Lawrie hit 11 HR last season with 70 AT, that would accumulate into 20-25HRs playing in a full season. Not much of a difference where Donaldson hit 29HRs. Defensively, both are outstanding infielders, but I would give Lawrie the edge on this one. Time and time again I heard players praising Lawrie's defensive skills, players from Buerhle to Jeter, saying he's the best 3rd basemen in the league. Those are pretty nice compliments from two of the best defensive players at their position.

Lawrie's has a ton of talent, it's just too bad his intensity level is through the roof, which causes him to be prone to injuries.

First, his power is far greater than Lawrie's. Remember, Donaldson played in Oakland, a pitcher friendly ballpark, he could hit 40 in Toronto. As well, Lawrie is a slap hitter with some power potential. In terms of overall hitting, Donaldson is light years ahead of Brett.

Second, Lawrie has the upside of being one of the better third basemen in the game if he can stay healthy. Donaldson is the best third baseman in the game, has a cheap contract (for now), has a year more of club control, and is durable.

The Jays won the trade hands down.

[Disaronno]

There is no reason the Jays still can't pursue Melky or Aoki, this trade, as stated above, hasn't tied up much more money.

fixed.

[shiznak]

First, his power is far greater than Lawrie's. Remember, Donaldson played in Oakland, a pitcher friendly ballpark, he could hit 40 in Toronto. As well, Lawrie is a slap hitter with some power potential. In terms of overall hitting, Donaldson is light years ahead of Brett.

Second, Lawrie has the upside of being one of the better third basemen in the game if he can stay healthy. Donaldson is the best third baseman in the game, has a cheap contract (for now), has a year more of club control, and is durable.

The Jays won the trade hands down.

Donaldson's overall hitting is better than Lawrie's, based on what? One good season, which he average just over .300? Last season, he hit just over .250, which was below the league average. In terms of HRs, yes the Coilseum is a pitcher friendly park, but it produces just as many hits and more extra base hits, as the Rogers Center. (Oakland: 1.022 Hits/1.114 doubles/1.200 triples, Toronto: 1.031/1.017/1.333). Also, Donaldson has horrendous numbers at the Rogers Center, bat just over .200 and even worst numbers against AL teams. Edited November 30, 2014 by shiznak

[RUPERTKBD]

Yeah, after hearing about the pieces going back to the A's to make up the difference, I'm happy with the trade. It's not too much of a loss. Seems like the A's are really banking on the untapped potential of Brett Lawrie.

I think they're probably banking on Nolin as much as Lawrie.

Excellent deal. As much of a fan fav Lawrie was for being Canadian and a really motivated guy, he never really fit in.

I mean he's decent-good, in between there, but injuries, inconsistent play at the plate and on defense won't cut it especially since this current team has a very slim window to do so damage otherwise they'll blow it apart.

Donaldson brings instant stability to 3rd base, just like how Martin does to the plate. Like this move imo just cause of these obvious reasons.

Lawrie's biggest issue was injuries. He did have problems with consistency at the plate, but some of that could be attributed to injuries as well.

However, I don't know where you get the idea that he was inconsistent on the defensive side of the game. For my money, he was up there with guys like Beltre and JD as a defensive 3rd basemen. It's the main reason that the Jays were exploring the possibility of adding the Panda....they figured they could just move Brett to 2nd...

[Duodenum]

Donaldson's overall hitting is better than Lawrie's, based on what? One good season, which he average just over .300? Last season, he hit just over .250, which was below the league average. In terms of HRs, yes the Coilseum is a pitcher friendly park, but it produces just as many hits and more extra base hits, as the Rogers Center. (Oakland: 1.022 Hits/1.114 doubles/1.200 triples, Toronto: 1.031/1.017/1.333). Also, Donaldson has horrendous numbers at the Rogers Center, bat just over .200 and even worst numbers against AL teams.

Based on back to back 7+ WAR seasons (2nd only to the game's best player, Mike Trout).

[Guest]

Donaldson's overall hitting is better than Lawrie's, based on what? One good season, which he average just over .300? Last season, he hit just over .250, which was below the league average. In terms of HRs, yes the Coilseum is a pitcher friendly park, but it produces just as many hits and more extra base hits, as the Rogers Center. (Oakland: 1.022 Hits/1.114 doubles/1.200 triples, Toronto: 1.031/1.017/1.333). Also, Donaldson has horrendous numbers at the Rogers Center, bat just over .200 and even worst numbers against AL teams.

Batting average is a very poor metric to measure a player's hitting ability. All advanced stat indicators have Donaldson miles ahead of Lawrie; this includes defensive WAR value.

[shiznak]

Based on back to back 7+ WAR seasons (2nd only to the game's best player, Mike Trout).

I hate sport junkies who uses advance stats, to determine how good a player is. WAR has its flaws, just like any other basic stats out there.

[87Crosby]

However, I don't know where you get the idea that he was inconsistent on the defensive side of the game. For my money, he was up there with guys like Beltre and JD as a defensive 3rd basemen. It's the main reason that the Jays were exploring the possibility of adding the Panda....they figured they could just move Brett to 2nd...

I think he was trying to say was that we just got the best defensive third baseman in baseball who is an upgrade on defense and about the same on offense. Also he is really cheap and we gave up nothing on this upgrade.

[TheRussianRocket.]

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