[Official] Toronto Blue Jays Major League Baseball thread

[Standing_Tall#37]

2 hours ago, ShakyWalton said:

OUT                                      IN

Brett Cecil							Pearce            Morales           Oberholzer
R.A. Dickey
Joaquin Benoit
Jose Bautista
Scott Feldman
Edwin Encarnacion
Dioner Navarro
Michael Saunders
Darwin Barney
Gavin Floyd
Chris Colabello
Josh Thole

 

Still need a back up catcher and relief help...not exactly setting the world on fire.

Watch out... pointing out that more value has left than what has come in is seen as whining. Don't be a whiny mcwhinerson whiner. Just accept that this team is now super awesome and we're gonna win the World Series with it!

[Standing_Tall#37]

2 hours ago, ShakyWalton said:

OUT                                      IN

Brett Cecil							Pearce            Morales           Oberholzer
R.A. Dickey
Joaquin Benoit
Jose Bautista
Scott Feldman
Edwin Encarnacion
Dioner Navarro
Michael Saunders
Darwin Barney
Gavin Floyd
Chris Colabello
Josh Thole

 

Still need a back up catcher and relief help...not exactly setting the world on fire.

In terms of player  replacement  we have replaced Feldman with olberholtzer. Bautista with Morales. And Colabello with Pearce. There is still work to be done.

[oldnews]

Maybe not be a bad idea to circle back and offer EE the 3x20/60 that no one seems ready to at this point.

they could play harder hardball, but perhaps a bit of give might work nicely in their favour, and still save them a year of term over the original offer.

EE and Morales could offset each other at DH/1st....

 

Would like to see the team maintain that fear they put in opposing pitchers having to navigate that lineup.

Without EE or JB, note too sure.

Still need a leadoff hitter/utility speed player imo, and an arm or two in the bullpen, but I think I'd try to make sure one of EE or JB comes back, and I'd prefer that be EE - given the somewhat shrunken market, perhaps it's worth taking advantage of?

[Sean Monahan]

3 hours ago, ShakyWalton said:

OUT                                      IN

Brett Cecil							Pearce            Morales           Oberholzer
R.A. Dickey
Joaquin Benoit
Jose Bautista
Scott Feldman
Edwin Encarnacion
Dioner Navarro
Michael Saunders
Darwin Barney
Gavin Floyd
Chris Colabello
Josh Thole

 

Still need a back up catcher and relief help...not exactly setting the world on fire.

I've acknowledged that we need relief help. The bullpen has nothing to do with people swearing to never watch the Jays again if Edwin doesn't come back. I don't think much of that list is terribly hard to replace. Aside from the fact he "eats innings" (which, last year, he didn't really @RUPERTKBD) Dickey is a pretty replaceable arm. Hell, Drew Hutchison can almost provide similar numbers. Benoit was a midseason acquisition for the cost of practically nothing. He performed pretty well but wasn't very versatile and needed some sheltering. Feldman, again, was a midseason pickup that didn't cost much at all. Mostly a non-factor for the team last year. Navarro, well I like him. I hope he comes back but  I wonder if he'll look for a starting job again. But again, he was a dirt cheap midseason acquisition. He can be fairly easily replaced. Saunders was more or less invisible in the second half. Great first half, sure, but became the baseball equivalent to tits on a bull post All-Star game. Aside from the left-handed bat I think Pearce replaces at least what Saunders provided, possibly provides more. Barney could still come back. He's a depth guy. Dime a dozen. Same goes for Floyd really. Didn't think we'd even complain about guys like him. Josh Thole is...good riddance he's gone.

 

Colabello is done in baseball IMO. He cheated, he got caught, and he can't hit for sh*t anymore. He didn't really play for the Jays last year so I don't see it at as a loss.

31 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

In terms of player  replacement  we have replaced Feldman with olberholtzer. Bautista with Morales. And Colabello with Pearce. There is still work to be done.

See above, especially regarding CC. He's a complete and total non-factor.

[Sean Monahan]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Maybe not be a bad idea to circle back and offer EE the 3x20/60 that no one seems ready to at this point.

they could play harder hardball, but perhaps a bit of give might work nicely in their favour, and still save them a year of term over the original offer.

EE and Morales could offset each other at DH/1st....

 

Would like to see the team maintain that fear they put in opposing pitchers having to navigate that lineup.

Without EE or JB, note too sure.

Still need a leadoff hitter/utility speed player imo, and an arm or two in the bullpen, but I think I'd try to make sure one of EE or JB comes back, and I'd prefer that be EE - given the somewhat shrunken market, perhaps it's worth taking advantage of?

I like that idea too. I'd love him back, but even at that discounted price is there enough money leftover to address their other needs? 

[oldnews]

32 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

I like that idea too. I'd love him back, but even at that discounted price is there enough money leftover to address their other needs? 

I don't know.  The 11 on Morales and 6.25 on Pearce wouldn't seem to eat into huge chunks of their budget.

Seems to me that's about the value of one of their qualifying offers.

Not sure why they wouldn't still be able to be in the ballpark on EE - and Pearce seems/is flexible enough that he's not simply a third overlap at 1st/DH.

They'd have to make some good budget signings, but that would seem somewhat in line with their original plan A.

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, Sean Monahan said:

I've acknowledged that we need relief help. The bullpen has nothing to do with people swearing to never watch the Jays again if Edwin doesn't come back. I don't think much of that list is terribly hard to replace. Aside from the fact he "eats innings" (which, last year, he didn't really @RUPERTKBD) Dickey is a pretty replaceable arm. Hell, Drew Hutchison can almost provide similar numbers. Benoit was a midseason acquisition for the cost of practically nothing. He performed pretty well but wasn't very versatile and needed some sheltering. Feldman, again, was a midseason pickup that didn't cost much at all. Mostly a non-factor for the team last year. Navarro, well I like him. I hope he comes back but  I wonder if he'll look for a starting job again. But again, he was a dirt cheap midseason acquisition. He can be fairly easily replaced. Saunders was more or less invisible in the second half. Great first half, sure, but became the baseball equivalent to tits on a bull post All-Star game. Aside from the left-handed bat I think Pearce replaces at least what Saunders provided, possibly provides more. Barney could still come back. He's a depth guy. Dime a dozen. Same goes for Floyd really. Didn't think we'd even complain about guys like him. Josh Thole is...good riddance he's gone.

 

Colabello is done in baseball IMO. He cheated, he got caught, and he can't hit for sh*t anymore. He didn't really play for the Jays last year so I don't see it at as a loss.

See above, especially regarding CC. He's a complete and total non-factor.

Kind of revisionist history, Sean. Let's go back and think about what the debate was in the first place:

 

Firstly, it started with the majority (and correct if I'm wrong, but I believe you were one of them) saying that chewing up innings wasn't worth anything. (IIRC, the comment was something like "What good is it pitching 200 innings when most of them are crap?") Secondly, you were claiming that the Jays shouldn't have exercised his option, instead they should have pursued  Yovani Gallardo as a UFA. In effect, you were saying that re-signing a 200+ inning guy was a mistake.

 

Dickey threw 170 innings last season, still pretty good, but the first time in 6 years he was under 200+. Gallardo, OTOH, threw 118 innings and had a higher ERA. So now are you coming back after this season is over and trying to convince everyone that you were right and I was wrong? I don't see it that way.

 

However, I agree that the list isn't as difficult to replenish as some are making it out to be. Most of those guys weren't making any kind of contribution anyway. In fact, the only guy on the list I wanted back is Barney. I think the plan is to have Goins fill that slot, with Pearce filling in once in a while as well.

 

I've been saying for quite some time now (since the end of the season, actually) that the Jays need to embrace a new philosophy. They can't replace all those dingers and I don't believe they should try. The most pressing need is a lead off guy with an OBP around .350. If the Jays can land someone like that, they have the tools already on the roster who can manufacture runs. Having Travis is the 2 slot is almost as important as having a reliable lead off guy. No-one else on the roster handles the bat as well, and IMHO, the hit and run needs to become an integral part of the 2017 arsenal.

 

The relief market looks ridiculous right now. I think the Jays might embrace a new philosophy there as well. I think they'll keep relying on righties to eat the majority of relief innings and maybe add one more lefty specialist. (A guy who pitches to one batter, as opposed to multiple batters, as Cecil did) Like it or not, I think Loup will remain an integral part of the pen.

 

One thing that might help on that front, is a better defensive outfield. On games where the Jays had Bats and Saunders at the corners, they were sub-par defensively. The outfield replacements may be chosen less for their ability to replace hitting, and more with their ability to play defense.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by RUPERTKBD

[RUPERTKBD]

Oh, and BTW, people were whining.

 

Who was it that "guaranteed" the Jays wouldn't re-sign JD when his contract came due?

[Sean Monahan]

@RUPERTKBD not saying you were wrong, just saying he didn't provide what was expected. The same can be said for Gallardo- he performed well below what was expected. 

 

My ultimate point in that post was that Dickey is pretty replaceable, at least last year's edition of him. 

[Standing_Tall#37]

23 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Oh, and BTW, people were whining.

 

Who was it that "guaranteed" the Jays wouldn't re-sign JD when his contract came due?

I don't know if I guaranteed it, but I definitely think they won't. Cuz the dude is good. For 3rd baseman there's him and machado, Longoria used to be good and the Panda might be good since he's either found a solid diet or developed quite the coke habit. 

 

 Anyways JD is a MVP and brings it 100% of what he's capable of giving(I feel he played hurt lots last year) I think he'll be looking for a 150 million dollar deal on either a 6-8 year deal and I just don't see Rogers budgeting management that much. 

 

 I'm guilty of being negative about what I see, but in the end I guess it may not be management's fault as the team is owned by a publicly traded company. And the bottom line is PTCs need to maximize profits. 

 

 Hell, I won't invest in a feel good company. I invest in stuff that destroys the  environment and others that kill people(weapons and defense) so financially I hope there's global warming and major wars lol

[ShakyWalton]

2 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

I've acknowledged that we need relief help. The bullpen has nothing to do with people swearing to never watch the Jays again if Edwin doesn't come back. I don't think much of that list is terribly hard to replace. Aside from the fact he "eats innings" (which, last year, he didn't really @RUPERTKBD) Dickey is a pretty replaceable arm. Hell, Drew Hutchison can almost provide similar numbers. Benoit was a midseason acquisition for the cost of practically nothing. He performed pretty well but wasn't very versatile and needed some sheltering. Feldman, again, was a midseason pickup that didn't cost much at all. Mostly a non-factor for the team last year. Navarro, well I like him. I hope he comes back but  I wonder if he'll look for a starting job again. But again, he was a dirt cheap midseason acquisition. He can be fairly easily replaced. Saunders was more or less invisible in the second half. Great first half, sure, but became the baseball equivalent to tits on a bull post All-Star game. Aside from the left-handed bat I think Pearce replaces at least what Saunders provided, possibly provides more. Barney could still come back. He's a depth guy. Dime a dozen. Same goes for Floyd really. Didn't think we'd even complain about guys like him. Josh Thole is...good riddance he's gone.

 

Colabello is done in baseball IMO. He cheated, he got caught, and he can't hit for sh*t anymore. He didn't really play for the Jays last year so I don't see it at as a loss.

See above, especially regarding CC. He's a complete and total non-factor.

I understand all this ..but what Im getting at is just to get to a basic non playoff roster there is work to be done..

[Sean Monahan]

17 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

I understand all this ..but what Im getting at is just to get to a basic non playoff roster there is work to be done..

I don't think their outlook is as dire as some are making it out to be. If they can bolster the bullpen and bring in a lead off guy who can run (Adam Eaton would be awesome) I think they're a playoff team.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Sean Monahan

[ShakyWalton]

26 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don't think their outlook is as dire as some are making it out to be. If they can bolster the bullpen and bring in a lead off guy who can run (Adam Eaton would be awesome) I think they're a playoff team.

I dont feel as hopeful as you...I think its just to much pop leaving ...last year they barely made the wild card...but a true leadoff guy would go a long way....which they didnt have all of last year

 

and as for whinning ...I just dont really want to accept the party line so if my posts come across as such its because ill need to be shown the Jays have done well in the off season but Im not a Rogers shill and wont give them  credit for basic moves that I think are all money oriented.

Edited December 11, 2016 by ShakyWalton

[Sean Monahan]

10 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

I dont feel as hopeful as you...I think its just to much pop leaving ...last year they barely made the wild card...but a true leadoff guy would go a long way....which they didnt have all of last year

 

and as for whinning ...I just dont really want to accept the party line so if my posts come across as such its because ill need to be shown the Jays have done well in the off season but Im not a Rogers shill and wont give them  credit for basic moves that I think are all money oriented.

There's some pop leaving, sure, but plenty of pop still remains and morales is no slouch in that department. Cleveland advanced to the World Series this past year and Kansas City won in in 2015 without having s tremendously powerful lineup. More than one way to skin a cat here, that's all I'm saying.

 

Of course, we don't have the bullpen those two aforementioned teams did.

[Xbox]

46 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don't think their outlook is as dire as some are making it out to be. If they can bolster the bullpen and bring in a lead off guy who can run (Adam Eaton would be awesome) I think they're a playoff team.

Normally I would agree, but Boston is going to be ridiculous this year so as it is I don't have much faith in the line-up. Still sitting back and seeing how it plays out though.

 

EDIT: As far as the Wild Card is concerned, Houston or Texas (Whichever doesnt win the AL West) will be a serious Wild Card threat.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Xbox

[Sean Monahan]

16 minutes ago, Xbox said:

Normally I would agree, but Boston is going to be ridiculous this year so as it is I don't have much faith in the line-up. Still sitting back and seeing how it plays out though.

 

EDIT: As far as the Wild Card is concerned, Houston or Texas (Whichever doesnt win the AL West) will be a serious Wild Card threat.

I agree Boston looks like the odds on favorite to win the division at this point, I don't think there's any denying that. Luckily there's two wild card spots now. All you have to do is get into the playoffs and you have a chance, that's the beauty of Major League Baseball.

[ShakyWalton]

 

Jon Morosi Verified account ‏@jonmorosi

José Bautista's agent, Jay Alou, spoke with #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins on final day of winter meetings; sides have remained in contact. @MLB

[Xbox]

 

Jon Morosi Verified account ‏@jonmorosi

José Bautista's agent, Jay Alou, spoke with #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins on final day of winter meetings; sides have remained in contact. @MLB

 

I will be very surprised if he doesn't come back at this point.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Xbox

[ShakyWalton]

10 minutes ago, Xbox said:

 

I will be very surprised if he doesn't come back at this point.

I would say its just a matter of signing...If the Jays sign Bats and a leadoff guy..ie...Revere..I would be extremely happy...of course we need a few more pieces..but it would be a solid statement.

[Xbox]

13 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

I would say its just a matter of signing...If the Jays sign Bats and a leadoff guy..ie...Revere..I would be extremely happy...of course we need a few more pieces..but it would be a solid statement.

Sounds like we're thinking the same thing. Reuniting the 2015 outfield would be the perfect statement.

 

Joey can still be a good RF. Just let him DH against Lefty loaded line-ups and move Morales to 1st. I've read that Gibbons is really pushing management to get Revere back.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Xbox