Nikolaj Ehlers

[asian player]

Defense can be taught. Wasn't Ovechkin said to be a 200ft player?

[Absent Canuck]

I think some fans already spoke loud and clear, although he probably can fill out, he will never be more then 6'0 offensive winger, with speed and skill meanwhile, we are heading the towards the direction of size and skill. Why would we take a 6'0 offensive winger with speed when we can take a 6'3 offensive winger with size skill that hits, runs the power play. Also an offensive player that is 6'3 225, that hits, best wrist shot in the draft, fights, runs the power play have good speed, (doesn't come by very often, I kindly repeat, a player of this stature that is 6'3 230 llbs and have offensive skills doesn't come by very often)

so my point? While we have the chance to draft a 6'3 offensive winger with size and skill and physical player, we take it. We go after the undersized high skilled wingers in future/ later drafts. These guys are a plenty a dozen. Plenty of 6'0 offensive under 180 lb wingers.

Ottawa actually made a off the wall pick. Karlson I believe was ranked in the mid second rounds, and they used an 18th pick on him, not a top 6 pick on him. Huge difference.

btw that picture of Ehlers, omg, that kid needs to start eating. He's as skinny as hell.

I hope that happens. It means one of the big 4 foward is ours.

At some point this just becomes belligerent.

Your angle is the same tired angle that you simply swap skill out as equal thus Ritchie is bigger is outright disingenuous. He is nowhere near as fast or skilled as Ehlers. Every scout out there says Ehlers is one of the most highly skilled and dynamic prospects out there.

It seems to me that you guys want to believe the narrative you want and not one that is actually presented to you as objective facts. When presented with the stats, you dont discuss them. You outright ignore them , water them down, and try to punch holes in them. You ignore any facts you cant spin, and concentrate on the ones you think you can spin.

Spin or water down whatever strengths Ehlers has, enhance his supposed 'lack of size' , minimizing the noticeable skill difference.

Plenty of 6ft offensive wingers who score.............score 104 points in their draft year? You forgot to add that part. Slipped your mind ? I am sure Ehlers Bennett and Reinhart must love your analogy.

Its all Drouin .......no. That was debunked. Ehlers scored at a 93 point pace without the guy in the lineup at all. He scored 70% of his points without him regardless of where he was. Most of the other 30% was on the PP where they were both responsible for it.

After 41 pages of it, it just doesnt wash. Its the same old lies that have long since been talked out. You have been on this thread a long time. We have seen all your talking points, and provided all the rebuttals. So at some point we have to question what kind of 'objective' discussion you are having.

There comes a time when belligerence is not even worth discussing.

[Absent Canuck]

Defense can be taught. Wasn't Ovechkin said to be a 200ft player?

He still is but he refuses to play like that. Its not a lack of skill.

[NucksCup2015]

I think some fans already spoke loud and clear, although he probably can fill out, he will never be more then 6'0 offensive winger, with speed and skill meanwhile, we are heading the towards the direction of size and skill. Why would we take a 6'0 offensive winger with speed when we can take a 6'3 offensive winger with size skill that hits, runs the power play. Also an offensive player that is 6'3 225, that hits, best wrist shot in the draft, fights, runs the power play have good speed, (doesn't come by very often, I kindly repeat, a player of this stature that is 6'3 230 llbs and have offensive skills doesn't come by very often)

meanwhile we have Ehlers here 5'11 Maybe (he looks Cody Hodgson height and he is 5'11 tops) probably no more then 165 lbs, there is also Kappenen a 6'0 European Winger Nylander another European Winger offensive winger with speed, then you have Josh Hosang, 6'0 Canadian kid another offensive with speed and skill, jared Mcann, 6'0 offensive centerman with speed and skill,

Sam Bennet 6'0 176 lb pound winger with skill, how many 6'3 230 lb offensiver wingers are there? very rare, most 6'3 230 lb wingers are known as projects or future enforcers.

so my point? While we have the chance to draft a 6'3 offensive winger with size and skill and physical player, we take it. We go after the undersized high skilled wingers in future/ later drafts. These guys are a plenty a dozen. Plenty of 6'0 offensive under 180 lb wingers.

Ottawa actually made a off the wall pick. Karlson I believe was ranked in the mid second rounds, and they used an 18th pick on him, not a top 6 pick on him. Huge difference.

btw that picture of Ehlers, omg, that kid needs to start eating. He's as skinny as hell.

I hope that happens. It means one of the big 4 foward is ours.

Alex Stojanov says hi

[Honky Cat]

Just because a guy is 6'3 220lbs in junior is no garuntee that he will dominate at the NHL level..Luke Schenn was an example of a guy who was predicted to dominate physically in the NHL..That's the downside of drafting players that size..at least with a player like Ehlers you know that he's going to grow.

[Smashian Kassian]

I think some fans already spoke loud and clear, although he probably can fill out, he will never be more then 6'0 offensive winger, with speed and skill meanwhile, we are heading the towards the direction of size and skill. Why would we take a 6'0 offensive winger with speed when we can take a 6'3 offensive winger with size skill that hits, runs the power play. Also an offensive player that is 6'3 225, that hits, best wrist shot in the draft, fights, runs the power play have good speed, (doesn't come by very often, I kindly repeat, a player of this stature that is 6'3 230 llbs and have offensive skills doesn't come by very often)

meanwhile we have Ehlers here 5'11 Maybe (he looks Cody Hodgson height and he is 5'11 tops) probably no more then 165 lbs, there is also Kappenen a 6'0 European Winger Nylander another European Winger offensive winger with speed, then you have Josh Hosang, 6'0 Canadian kid another offensive with speed and skill, jared Mcann, 6'0 offensive centerman with speed and skill,

Sam Bennet 6'0 176 lb pound winger with skill, how many 6'3 230 lb offensiver wingers are there? very rare, most 6'3 230 lb wingers are known as projects or future enforcers.

so my point? While we have the chance to draft a 6'3 offensive winger with size and skill and physical player, we take it. We go after the undersized high skilled wingers in future/ later drafts. These guys are a plenty a dozen. Plenty of 6'0 offensive under 180 lb wingers.

IF skill, smarts & skating ability is equal, then yes go with the size, but the skill, skating ability and smarts of the size guys are not equal to that of Ehlers.

Re: the bolded.

Brassard, Huberdeau, Giroux, Crosby, Drouin. The only others Q players to score 100+ points in there draft year in a decade. Not exactly dime a dozen.

[MJDDawg]

This thread needs to die.

The last 20 pages have been nothing but pissing matches.

[Absent Canuck]

Just because a guy is 6'3 220lbs in junior is no garuntee that he will dominate at the NHL level..Luke Schenn was an example of a guy who was predicted to dominate physically in the NHL..That's the downside of drafting players that size..at least with a player like Ehlers you know that he's going to grow.

That is why drafting huge powerforwards doesnt happen very often early in the draft. You just cant tell from any video or coaching whether the guy is just a man dominating boys or he really has something at the NHL level.

Every time we see a huge guy we get the same visions of grandeur . I am not saying Ritchie wont be good. If he cuts down to 215 he will have a job for at least 400 games..

Will he live up to a 6-8 draft in the first round? Who knows.

[BurgerKing]

 

At some point this just becomes belligerent.

Your angle is the same tired angle that you simply swap skill out as equal thus Ritchie is bigger is outright disingenuous. He is nowhere near as fast or skilled as Ehlers. Every scout out there says Ehlers is one of the most highly skilled and dynamic prospects out there.

It seems to me that you guys want to believe the narrative you want and not one that is actually presented to you as objective facts. When presented with the stats, you dont discuss them. You outright ignore them , water them down, and try to punch holes in them. You ignore any facts you cant spin, and concentrate on the ones you think you can spin.

Spin or water down whatever strengths Ehlers has, enhance his supposed 'lack of size' , minimizing the noticeable skill difference.

Plenty of 6ft offensive wingers who score.............score 104 points in their draft year? You forgot to add that part. Slipped your mind ? I am sure Ehlers Bennett and Reinhart must love your analogy.

Its all Drouin .......no. That was debunked. Ehlers scored at a 93 point pace without the guy in the lineup at all. He scored 70% of his points without him regardless of where he was. Most of the other 30% was on the PP where they were both responsible for it.

After 41 pages of it, it just doesnt wash. Its the same old lies that have long since been talked out. You have been on this thread a long time. We have seen all your talking points, and provided all the rebuttals. So at some point we have to question what kind of 'objective' discussion you are having.

There comes a time when belligerence is not even worth discussing.

 

Where are you getting this 70% number from? do you have a source?

You love discussing this, you couldn't stop even if you wanted to.

Here's why not to draft Ehlers,

1. Drouin has had some impact on his numbers, no matter what stats you throw out there, this is true.

2. He is small and will alway be small by NHL standards.

3. His skill at this point shows to be higher than Ritchie, Virtanen, Perlini, but it's still not elite/ can't miss.

3. How many small/finess/european wingers do you know of that have been prominant on a Stanley Cup winning team? Not many come to mind, in recent years there haven't been any.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

This thread needs to die.

The last 20 pages have been nothing but pissing matches.

^^ thank you

[Smashian Kassian]

   

Where are you getting this 70% number from? do you have a source?

You love discussing this, you couldn't stop even if you wanted to.

Here's why not to draft Ehlers,

1. Drouin has had some impact on his numbers, no matter what stats you throw out there, this is true.

2. He is small and will alway be small by NHL standards.

3. His skill at this point shows to be higher than Ritchie, Virtanen, Perlini, but it's still not elite/ can't miss.

3. How many small/finess/european wingers do you know of that have been prominant on a Stanley Cup winning team? Not many come to mind, in recent years there haven't been any.

Actually its not 70%, by my calculations its 89%.

1. well 11% of the points came from Drouin setting him up, and even that's flawed unless you look at each play & determine whether or not it was Drouin that did all the work or not. And if this is a concern with Ehlers, wouldn't it be a concern for other prospects aswell?

(Ritchie played with Corniel, Virtanen played with 2 players who had 85 points)

2. Average NHL size is 6'1 - 203. Ehlers is 6'0 175. He's still going to gain weight, and his elite skating ability certainly negates that concern to a degree.

3. So then: Giroux, Huberdeau, Crosby, Drouin, & Brassard isn't an elite class either?

4. Gaborik is leading the playoffs in goals, Kane is tied for 2nd, Granlund is tied for 3rd. Don't need to be 6'4 230 to have playoff success.

[youngdad]

Sluuuuurp sluurp

[Absent Canuck]

   

Where are you getting this 70% number from? do you have a source?

You love discussing this, you couldn't stop even if you wanted to.

Here's why not to draft Ehlers,

1. Drouin has had some impact on his numbers, no matter what stats you throw out there, this is true.

2. He is small and will alway be small by NHL standards.

3. His skill at this point shows to be higher than Ritchie, Virtanen, Perlini, but it's still not elite/ can't miss.

3. How many small/finess/european wingers do you know of that have been prominant on a Stanley Cup winning team? Not many come to mind, in recent years there haven't been any.

Ok. You just spun your biased reasons why not to draft Ehlers. Great. More Ehlers bashing by a new guy who cant be bothered to read the thread. Every single talking point you put up there has been asked and answered long ago. Just because you got here now we have to re explain it all to you? Read the thread.

Go back a few pages and you will see the 70% . A guy actually went and analysed all the stats and came back with the numbers.

None of us are interest in what you DONT want. We have heard it all long ago. Do something constructive instead.

Tell us all why we SHOULD draft the guy you want.

[BurgerKing]

 

Actually its not 70%, by my calculations its 89%.

1. well 11% of the points came from Drouin setting him up, and even that's flawed unless you look at each play & determine whether or not it was Drouin that did all the work or not. And if this is a concern with Ehlers, wouldn't it be a concern for other prospects aswell?

(Ritchie played with Corniel, Virtanen played with 2 players who had 85 points)

2. Average NHL size is 6'1 - 203. Ehlers is 6'0 175. He's still going to gain weight, and his elite skating ability certainly negates that concern to a degree.

3. So then: Giroux, Huberdeau, Crosby, Drouin, & Brassard isn't an elite class either?

4. Gaborik is leading the playoffs in goals, Kane is tied for 2nd, Granlund is tied for 3rd. Don't need to be 6'4 230 to have playoff success.

 

1. So you don't have a source, Absent Canuck is not a valid source. None of the players you are talking about are even close to Drouin.

2. According to the QMJHL website, his weight is 163lbs, He is 5'11, where are you getting your numbers?

3. We don't know if his numbers would be as good as the guys you mentioned if there was no Drouin on his team? All the guy you mentioned lead their teams in scoring the year they were drafted, none of them had a guy on their team as good as Drouin. Droiun led the Mooseheads in scoring despite playing 17 less games than Ehlers.

4. I don't care what players number are half way through round 2, read point 4 again.

[BurgerKing]

 

Ok. You just spun your biased reasons why not to draft Ehlers. Great. More Ehlers bashing by a new guy who cant be bothered to read the thread. Every single talking point you put up there has been asked and answered long ago. Just because you got here now we have to re explain it all to you? Read the thread.

Go back a few pages and you will see the 70% . A guy actually went and analysed all the stats and came back with the numbers.

None of us are interest in what you DONT want. We have heard it all long ago. Do something constructive instead.

Tell us all why we SHOULD draft the guy you want.

 

I am not accepting the 70% number unless it's from a legit source, I am not going through every single game played by the moosehead to see if you're right. Get a life, seriously. I am also not going to read 42 pages of this thread, to see what has and has not been discussed.

Hope one of the top 5 fall, if not Virtanen or Perlini, I would pick Virtanen over Ritchie because Ritchie is older by 8 months and has played esentially an extra year in junior. Virtanen's forecheck would be menacing, even if this guy doesn't reach his potential (Dustin Brown) you have a guy like Rafi Torres playing on your third line. I'd love to have this guy on the Canucks. Perlini don't know much about, he is big, good skater, okay numbers, might be the safer pick.

[Absent Canuck]

   

1. So you don't have a source, Absent Canuck is not a valid source. None of the players you are talking about are even close to Drouin.

2. According to the QMJHL website, his weight is 163lbs, He is 5'11, where are you getting your numbers?

3. We don't know if his numbers would be as good as the guys you mentioned if there was no Drouin on his team? All the guy you mentioned lead their teams in scoring the year they were drafted, none of them had a guy on their team as good as Drouin. Droiun led the Mooseheads in scoring despite playing 17 less games than Ehlers.

4. I don't care what players number are half way through round 2, read point 4 again.

We went through all these tired old talking points. You think you are the first guy to come here and say all this after 41 pages? I told you to read the thread instead of trying to get into arguments with other posters.

[Absent Canuck]

  

I am not accepting the 70% number unless it's from a legit source, I am not going through every single game played by the moosehead to see if you're right. Get a life, seriously. I am also not going to read 42 pages of this thread, to see what has and has not been discussed.

Hope one of the top 5 fall, if not Virtanen or Perlini, I would pick Virtanen over Ritchie because Ritchie is older by 8 months and has played esentially an extra year in junior. Virtanen's forecheck would be menacing, even if this guy doesn't reach his potential (Dustin Brown) you have a guy like Rafi Torres playing on your third line. I'd love to have this guy on the Canucks. Perlini don't know much about, he is big, good skater, okay numbers, might be the safer pick.

Its from HF boards originally. He took it from the Mooseheads stats directly and showed all the numbers. is utterly irrelevant whether you like it or not or accept it or not.

So you want Virtanen. Because you think his forecheck would be menacing but even if he is Raffi Torres its good to get someone like that on the Canucks. Fair enough

How about we just go pay a 3rd round pick and get another Torres fully developed from another team. Thats what we paid for Torres in the first place. Not a 6th overall pick.

Hes another Dustin Brown? You havent made any case for it. Just because you think so?

Lets look at some objective facts about the guy. He got a point a game in his draft year. That is not impressive at all. His 45 goals are impressive but not earth shattering . His play has been described as aggressive. He really doesnt have any other game . He plays one way.

He is one of the youngest in the draft. That is awesome. How old is he? 14 ? 15? A real prodigy? No. Hes anywhere from 11 months to zero older than his peers. An average of 5 1/2 months.

I guess we can start to split hairs and claim 5 1/2 months is some kind of overwhelming stat to consider in his draft position. I doubt many do however. Unless the choice instead is 11 months younger in direct comparison. Such as if it were between Ritchie and Virtanen then it could be considered a such.

Jake's MO is he is big, fast , strong and can score. But the bottom line is his numbers are not out of the ordinary. He does not have star talent . He has never shown star talent. He has solid pro written all over him. Low risk player but not a high ceiling.

I dont spend a 6th overall pick on a guy who should become a 'solid pro' with no outstanding qualities at all. I spend a 12th to 20th pick on it.

I am looking for a much higher floor such as Dal Colle or if he isnt there a guy with a huge ceiling as Ehlers and Nylander have.

[Smashian Kassian]

   

1. So you don't have a source, Absent Canuck is not a valid source. None of the players you are talking about are even close to Drouin.

2. According to the QMJHL website, his weight is 163lbs, He is 5'11, where are you getting your numbers?

3. We don't know if his numbers would be as good as the guys you mentioned if there was no Drouin on his team? All the guy you mentioned lead their teams in scoring the year they were drafted, none of them had a guy on their team as good as Drouin. Droiun led the Mooseheads in scoring despite playing 17 less games than Ehlers.

4. I don't care what players number are half way through round 2, read point 4 again.

1. Well if you would have read the post I quoted you in before you might have seen it. I got the source from a guy on HF who went through everything and talled it all. My math was off a bit, turns out its 16.4% of his points came from Drouin setting him up. Big whoop.

2. Those were old from when he first came over. NHL.com has him at 176. And he's at the very least 5.11 and a half (though looks more like 6) Look through this thread if you want thats been discussed just read through some pages. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1505805&page=37

3. Well Drouin played with Mackinnon didn't he? The guy whos in the NHL scoring near 60 points & who is going to win the Calder, he isn't better than Drouin is now? Huberdeau played on the Memorial cup champion St.John Sea Dogs, which had Zack Phillips, Simon Despres, Nathan Beaulieu, Tomas Jurco, exc. Pretty good team, better than this years Mooseheads. Giroux played with a 19 year old David Krejci in his draft year. Derrick Brassard played with Guilluame Latendresse & another guy who scored at a 1.46 PPG clip. So yeah, all those guys had some good players to play with aswell.

4. So wingers that fall under the criteria of either being Ehlers sized or european? And bringing some offense.

Kane, Gagne, Kruger, Marchand, Ryder, Recchi, Versteeg, Chris Kunitz, Sykora, Hudler, Filppula, Datsyuk, Zetterberg.

[BurgerKing]

 

1. Well if you would have read the post I quoted you in before you might have seen it. I got the source from a guy on HF who went through everything and talled it all. My math was off a bit, turns out its 16.4% of his points came from Drouin setting him up. Big whoop.

2. Those were old from when he first came over. NHL.com has him at 176. And he's at the very least 5.11 and a half (though looks more like 6) Look through this thread if you want thats been discussed just read through some pages. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1505805&page=37

3. Well Drouin played with Mackinnon didn't he? The guy whos in the NHL scoring near 60 points & who is going to win the Calder, he isn't better than Drouin is now? Huberdeau played on the Memorial cup champion St.John Sea Dogs, which had Zack Phillips, Simon Despres, Nathan Beaulieu, Tomas Jurco, exc. Pretty good team, better than this years Mooseheads. Giroux played with a 19 year old David Krejci in his draft year. Derrick Brassard played with Guilluame Latendresse & another guy who scored at a 1.46 PPG clip. So yeah, all those guys had some good players to play with aswell.

4. So wingers that fall under the criteria of either being Ehlers sized or european? And bringing some offense.

Kane, Gagne, Kruger, Marchand, Ryder, Recchi, Versteeg, Chris Kunitz, Sykora, Hudler, Filppula, Datsyuk, Zetterberg.

 

1. So noone has legit stats, what's HF? Other guy had 11%, you got 16% "HF" has 30%.

2. According to NHL.com he's 5'10" 176 lbs now, let's just agree he's small relative to Ritchie, Virtanen and Perlini.

3. Droiun out scored MacKinnon by 30 points last season, it's a stretch to suggest Drouin doesn't put up great numbers without MacKinnon. You're helping me make my point with Giroux and Krejci, Krejci played 14 less games than Giroux and had 22 less points, Drouin played 17 less games than Ehlers yet put up 4 more points. Zack Phillips numbers went down by 15 points the following year because Huberdeau only played 37 games. Who was helping who? Latandresse had 1.46 ppg, Drouin this year was 2.35 ppg. Who has had more help? Ehlers

4. Try to read my original point before you start typing next time, how many small/finess/european wingers have been prominant with a stanley cup winner?Kruger!? 4th liner, 3 goals in the run that year, this is what you are hoping for Ehlers to turn into?!!

Please Respond

[cdgraham]

burger king get outa here