Absent Canuck Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Thanks a lot for that!! However I still fail to see how he was involved in 50% of his points. It shows here that 31 of the points are connected to Drouin for a 30% rate not the 50% stated. You will also see that most of those 30% are on the PP where all teams load up their top players. I have never heard someone argue that their PP stats dont count because they played with their teams best players. They count as much as any other teams PP count playing with the teams best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 12 out of 27 points were score without Drouin. That's just over 50%. I don't see that as an argument to say Ehlers' stats are buoyed by Drouin any more than Getzlaf's stats are buoyed by Perry and Sharp by Teows and Kane, and so on and so on.Good players creating points with other good players is not a handicap to their stats.Drouin scored 26pts without Ehlers. Ehlers scored 12 without Drouin.Anyway, Ehlers will not be a Perry, but he's compared to Kane in terms of style. Not as talented, but would Kane be as effective if he doesn't have Toews, Hossa and Sharp? Nope. Kane is #4 on that list in terms of being able to carry a team, imho. Point being, Kane is a benefactor and he needs to be sheltered or he'll be crushed over and over again by opponents who target him.Ehlers, being quite a lot less talented than Kane, simply won't be a go-to guy in the NHL. So i'm not sure why there's all this hype about him. Maybe if he were close to Drouin, but he's not. Maybe even if he were a center, but he isn't. I see him as a Raymond/Grabner hybrid who's slightly more one-dimensional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 He knows all that. He wants to argue with you hiding behind the internet using a fake name.Question: Is your real name Absent Canuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 BurgerKing = KotES? He definitely is someone who has been here a long time and is using another ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Drouin scored 26pts without Ehlers. Ehlers scored 12 without Drouin. Anyway, Ehlers will not be a Perry, but he's compared to Kane in terms of style. Not as talented, but would Kane be as effective if he doesn't have Toews, Hossa and Sharp? Nope. Kane is #4 on that list in terms of being able to carry a team, imho. Point being, Kane is a benefactor and he needs to be sheltered or he'll be crushed over and over again by opponents who target him. Ehlers, being quite a lot less talented than Kane, simply won't be a go-to guy in the NHL. So i'm not sure why there's all this hype about him. Maybe if he were close to Drouin, but he's not. Maybe even if he were a center, but he isn't. I see him as a Raymond/Grabner hybrid who's slightly more one-dimensional. your sig is fitting, you obviously DO NOT WATCH. Gtfo of here with your garbage. Easily one of the worst posters on this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancanwincup Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Drouin scored 26pts without Ehlers. Ehlers scored 12 without Drouin. Anyway, Ehlers will not be a Perry, but he's compared to Kane in terms of style. Not as talented, but would Kane be as effective if he doesn't have Toews, Hossa and Sharp? Nope. Kane is #4 on that list in terms of being able to carry a team, imho. Point being, Kane is a benefactor and he needs to be sheltered or he'll be crushed over and over again by opponents who target him. Ehlers, being quite a lot less talented than Kane, simply won't be a go-to guy in the NHL. So i'm not sure why there's all this hype about him. Maybe if he were close to Drouin, but he's not. Maybe even if he were a center, but he isn't. I see him as a Raymond/Grabner hybrid who's slightly more one-dimensional. The above could possible be the most "out to lunch " thing I have ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Too Raymondy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Malkin and Crosby are 2 of the best in the NHL Drouin and Ehlers are 2 of the best in the QMJHL you didn't address the second part of my post, Droiun scored approx. 2 more points for every 3 games played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 you didn't address the second part of my post, Droiun scored approx. 2 more points for every 3 games played. a 3rd overall overager is outscoring a guy in his first season in CHL? whooaaa no waaaay how could that beeee.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 He would have got 93 points in 63 games. That is what the pace he had without Drouin in the line up at all. His haters dont want to accept it because to accept is to put a pretty large dent in any remaining critique of the guy. Here is the thing though. It is irrelevant if his haters throw the stats out because it doesnt support their argument. We dont 'throw out' stats of other prospects because it doesnt fit with our agenda. That is belligerent. Ehlers is by far the most talked about prospect anywhere in Hockey world. More than Ekblad. More than Reinhart. He has more hits to his thread than anyone else. Ekblad is second . When the scouts saw him play, and saw his stats, they saw the 25 points in 17 games. its not a full season but its the best you got to see his true worth on his own. If you were a scout , would you not take that into consideration? Of course you would and so will they. Just use your common sense and quit arguing with these guys. The arguing is completely irrelevant to Ehlers draft position. but 93 points is less than the 104 he actually got, so doesn't that right there tell you that Drouin is a factor, even if we use your logic, Ehlers had 79 points in 46 games with Drouin in the line up, if he played 63 games with Drouin he would have 108 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 a 3rd overall overager is outscoring a guy in his first season in CHL? whooaaa no waaaay how could that beeee.... lol Didnt Drouin outscore Mac Kinnon too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 a 3rd overall overager is outscoring a guy in his first season in CHL? whooaaa no waaaay how could that beeee.... lol but your arguement was that crosby/malkin in the nhl is the same as drouin/ehlers in the qmjhl. crosby and Malkin have put up very similar numbers in the nhl. Now you're clearly conceding that droiun at this point in time is better ehlers, considerably better as in 2 more points scored for every 3 games played. Less sarcasm more thinking required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 but your arguement was that crosby/malkin in the nhl is the same as drouin/ehlers in the qmjhl. crosby and Malkin have put up very similar numbers in the nhl. Now you're clearly conceding that droiun at this point in time is better ehlers, considerably better as in 2 more points scored for every 3 games played. Less sarcasm more thinking required. Why does it matter how much better Drouin is? If they're two of the best then they're two of the best... Doesn't matter the point differential. I made the Malkin/Crosby to show that two of the best playing together does not show that one is inflating the other's numbers. The malkin/crosby comparison is not extreme because they dominate the NHL while Ehlers and Drouin are top 4 in the Q. And then all of a sudden you start bringing up the comparison of Drouin and Ehlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Malkin and Crosby are 2 of the best in the NHL Drouin and Ehlers are 2 of the best in the QMJHL Thank you, I was going to make that point aswell. BurgerKing = KotES? You might be onto something here. but 93 points is less than the 104 he actually got, so doesn't that right there tell you that Drouin is a factor, even if we use your logic, Ehlers had 79 points in 46 games with Drouin in the line up, if he played 63 games with Drouin he would have 108 points. He's a factor in the exact same way that Malkin is a factor in Crosby's point totals when they play together on the PP. Do you also think Malkin is less of a player because he is on the same team as Sid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFBR392 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm going to enjoy seeing this thread get bumped in 3-4 years. We will either have a bunch of self proclaimed geniuses who claim to have seen the future... or a bunch of bitter degenerates saying "told you so"... Either way, posting this will ensure my spot in an otherwise epic thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm going to enjoy seeing this thread get bumped in 3-4 years. We will either have a bunch of self proclaimed geniuses who claim to have seen the future... or a bunch of bitter degenerates saying "told you so"... Either way, posting this will ensure my spot in an otherwise epic thread. My crystal ball tells me that in 5 years, he'll score 23 goals, 46 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 LOL, I think our sarcasm flew over your head because we really weren't trying to compare them just to show the fallacy of your argument that because Ehlers played with Drouin you think none of his points that he had with him are valid. I agree that it's likely that Ehlers points would most likely decrease without Drouin in the lineup and that he would most likely end up with 85-100 points with the current icetime he is getting. I then added in that Ehlers would likely get more points to make up for that shortfall because he would get extra icetime. Remember, Ehlers got 104 points and Drouin had 108 points so if your unwilling to attribute Ehler's points because he got them from Drouin then you have to look at it in reverse and say that Drouin had less points because he played with Ehler. Never said none of the points with Drouin are valid. Find me the quote. Why do you assume he would get more points with more icetime? Sedins, also is it possible for him to get more time, he should already be getting large minutes, he is their second best offensive forward. Last point I don't understand what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Don't know why fans are arguing about Ehlers. I highly doubt we take him with the 6th pick. Ritchie, Dal Colle, or Draisaitl are our likely targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Don't know why fans are arguing about Ehlers. I highly doubt we take him with the 6th pick. Ritchie, Dal Colle, or Draisaitl are our likely targets. Younger fans between the ages of 13-18 see a player like Ehlers and can't help but think Kane and ignore all statistical and observational truth that tells us there is only a small small chance he'll become like Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sims Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Playoffs Round 1: 1 1. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (1) (MacKenzie Weegar, Jonathan Drouin), 18:17 (PP) 2 2.HAL Jonathan Drouin, (1) (MacKenzie Weegar, Nikolaj Ehlers), 15:52 3 1. HAL Philippe Gadoury, (1) (Nikolaj Ehlers, MacKenzie Weegar), 9:20 (PP) 4 2. HAL Jonathan Drouin, (2) (Nikolaj Ehlers, Andrew Ryan), 17:45 5 3. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (2) (Jonathan Drouin, MacKenzie Weegar), 11:30 (PP) 6 3. HAL Jonathan Drouin, (3) (Darcy Ashley, Nikolaj Ehlers), 14:41 (PP) 7 3. HAL Philippe Gadoury, (4) (Andrew Ryan, Nikolaj Ehlers), 6:59 (PP) 8 3. HAL Jonathan Drouin, (4) (Nikolaj Ehlers, Andrew Ryan 9 1. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (3) (Jonathan Drouin, MacKenzie Weegar), 14:28 (PP) 10 2. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (4) (Philippe Gadoury, Danny Moynihan), 12:07 7/10 Drouin 6/10 PP Round 2: 11 1. HAL Andrew Ryan, (1) (MacKenzie Weegar, Nikolaj Ehlers), 12:21 (PP) 12 3. HAL Brent Andrews, (1) (Matt Murphy, Nikolaj Ehlers 13 1. HAL MacKenzie Weegar, (3) (Nikolaj Ehlers, Jonathan Drouin), 3:22 (PP) 14 2. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (5) (Philippe Gadoury, Jonathan Drouin), 11:25 (PP) 15 3. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (6) (Philippe Gadoury), 9:40 (PP) 16 3. HAL Philippe Gadoury, (7) (Nikolaj Ehlers, Jonathan Drouin), 13:32 (PP) 17 2. HAL Luca Ciampini, (3) (Nikolaj Ehlers), 2:45 18 2. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (7) (Jonathan Drouin, Matt Murphy), 5:24 (PP) 19 1. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (8) (Philippe Gadoury, MacKenzie Weegar), 5:40 (PP) 20 3. HAL Philippe Gadoury, (8) (Nikolaj Ehlers, Jonathan Drouin), 3:03 (PP) 5/10 Drouin 8/10 PP Round 3 (Loss): 21 1. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (9) (Darcy Ashley, Timo Meier), 6:02 22 3. HAL Jonathan Drouin, (11) (Nikolaj Ehlers), 14:41 23 3. HAL MacKenzie Weegar, (5) (Nikolaj Ehlers, Andrew Ryan), 16:01 24 1. HAL Luca Ciampini, (5) (Matt Murphy, Nikolaj Ehlers 25 3. HAL Philippe Gadoury, (11) (Nikolaj Ehlers, Jonathan Drouin), 8:31 (PP) 26 1. HAL Philippe Gadoury, (12) (Nikolaj Ehlers, MacKenzie Weegar), 7:06 27 1. HAL Nikolaj Ehlers, (11) (Philippe Gadoury, Jonathan Drouin 3/7 Drouin 1/7 PP ... Considering this thread started at around peak Ehlers hype in the first two rounds, and the bulk of those points were Drouin-created, I find people yelling 'They Don't Play Together!' to be heeeelarious. No Drouin? No Ehlers hype. That simple. Virtanen had 1g, 3a in 6 playoff games, 1/4 pp 2/4 brassart regular season Brassart was in on 28% of Virtanen's points, does that make Virtanen's point total and game any less impressive? Drouin scored 26pts without Ehlers. Ehlers scored 12 without Drouin. Anyway, Ehlers will not be a Perry, but he's compared to Kane in terms of style. Not as talented, but would Kane be as effective if he doesn't have Toews, Hossa and Sharp? Nope. Kane is #4 on that list in terms of being able to carry a team, imho. Point being, Kane is a benefactor and he needs to be sheltered or he'll be crushed over and over again by opponents who target him. Ehlers, being quite a lot less talented than Kane, simply won't be a go-to guy in the NHL. So i'm not sure why there's all this hype about him. Maybe if he were close to Drouin, but he's not. Maybe even if he were a center, but he isn't. I see him as a Raymond/Grabner hybrid who's slightly more one-dimensional. Anyway, Virtanen will not be a Lindros but he is compared to Iginla in terms of style, not as talented but would Iginla be as effective...... Ehlers may end up being less talented than Kane just as Virtanen may end up being a Taylor Pyatt instead of an Iginla. Though I think I would rather take my chance's with a Raymond/Grabner hybrid than a Pyatt/Bernier hybrid. At least we would get more point production and entertainment out of the first hybrid. you didn't address the second part of my post, Droiun scored approx. 2 more points for every 3 games played. Virtanen's teammates Brassart and Chase had approx 1 more point for every 3 games played. Does that make Virtanen less useful? but your arguement was that crosby/malkin in the nhl is the same as drouin/ehlers in the qmjhl. crosby and Malkin have put up very similar numbers in the nhl. Now you're clearly conceding that droiun at this point in time is better ehlers, considerably better as in 2 more points scored for every 3 games played. Less sarcasm more thinking required. This is Ehlers' first season in North America not bad for a rookie. Yes Drouin is right now better than Ehlers just as Brassart and Chase are right now better than Virtanen, scoring at approx 1 more point for every 3 games. One difference is that Drouin and Ehlers are top 5 players in the Q and Virtanen and Brassart/Chase are not yet top 20 in the W. However, that doesn't make Ehlers or Virtanen less talented than these other guys. Whoever the Canucks choose will be great though I believe in the course of their NHL careers Ehlers will have more points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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