Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Byrix]

50 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Are the games worth watching?

YES! YES! YES!

[N4ZZY]

13 hours ago, manroth19 said:

Jesus Christ people can we stop bringing up the past on JV. Yeah we could have had ehlers or nylander.....whatever, it's getting old. He came to camp out of shape and was floating around on the ice.....well he's not anymore. He's partying (maybe) and being entitled was a red flag for sure.......he was 20 and every time you turn on the radio/tv you see yourself as the saviour, it went to his head and sure it shows immaturity but cmon people I think we can give him a pass if it doesn't continue. 

The guys been working hard and playing great the last month or so. If he was playing like this he would have never been sent down in the beginning. He doesn't have the creativity and hockey iq to drive play in the offensive zone but that's not his game. He's using his speed when the puck gets on his stick drive defenders back to gain the zone, that's how he is suppose to drive play. He's definitely snake bitten this year but he's been picking up a couple points lately, maybe they're finally starting to go in. 

 

Kids playing well lately. Let's start focusing on the present and future 

wish i could give you 1,000,000 pluses. 

COMPLETELY AGREE with everything you said! 

Let's focus on the present (how he's playing currently) and the future. 

 

[BaerBoBoeser]

2 hours ago, Adarsh Sant said:

True, it is very hard to be patient especially with the guys drafted after him  . But I agree, he still has potential and he could help bolster our third line when we are good again.  Hopefully his playing style when he gets to the NHL is like Hansen, tough but can make plays in both ends of the ice.  

 

Imagine if he had the drive and work ethic like Horvat.....it would be insane.

well, he's very young and he got a wakeup call and while he's clearly immature (and who isn't at 20 yrs old, its just we've become accustomed to young NHLers acting very mature at a young age for some reason) so that can change.

 

The upside here is, as immature as jake is:

 

A. Its normal for most people his age! LOL

B. He's not an 'idiot' - from what we've seen he's a young kid being a kid bc he's got some cash now and buddies around (none of us would be any different, bo is actually an exception - I think being in Vancouver hurt him - too close to his bros who pumped his tires), so if he's not an 'idiot' he will mature and utica is good, away from all the nonsense and 'early celebrity'.

C. He's got talent and now knows he's got to earn it, nothing is going to be given to him, especially with the moves JB has made (bringing in 2 young offensive wingers plus Boeser about to come in, and maybe Gaudette). Plus you have Baer and Granny pretty much cementing 2 of 4 top 6 spots. If he looks around, he'll notice there's no spot 'waiting' for him anymore - if that doesn't light a fire under him nothing will

 

As I said in another thread lets see how he comes into camp next year and this is my view on how we need to evaluate him

 

1. Come into camp in great shape

2. Play your ass off and make it hard for the Nucks to send him back (but they should even as a test of his resiliency, to make him feel like he's close but can't quit or sulk)

3. Back to Utica and start being the 'driver of offense' and showing he can dominate physically and play 200ft

4. Be called up  a few times and when called up, don't complain about what line you're on, with the limited minutes still show you want to be here by making yourself noticed

5. Following season should be starting to see him as the first call from utica even if he doesn't stick out of camp.

 

He's got 2 years in my view before we start talking about bust or anything of the sort. The key here is improvement in all facets of his game, fitness, drive, effort, professionalism on and off the ice, positioning,  scoring etc - lots to work on.

 

When people say "powerforwards take more time' so far, this is an excuse for Jake to gloss over a lack of commitment. Powerforwards take time to put it all together at the NHL level but the best ones still showed progression. Jake won't wake up one day and voila its all working, we need to see progression and to date that hasn't been there. Let's hope over the next 2 years we start seeing that!

 

I think we will, he's  a decent kid, just the celebrity got a bit too much into his head early and the Nucks smartly recognized it. Now its up to him!

Edited March 15, 2017 by BaerBoBoeser

[cookieeater55]

 

[Ted Lasso]

19 hours ago, Byrix said:

YES! YES! YES!

Can't argue with that, thank you

[terrible.dee]

On 2/3/2017 at 9:56 AM, suitup said:

 

Great to hear. Hope it translates. Can someone remind me if it was the Canucks that wanted him to gain weight or slim down? Either way I'm glad he's making progress to becoming the player he can be. 

 

I Don't remember seeing any prescribed playing weight for him

 

Very encouraging to see he"s interested enough to SAY the right things,  I still maintain that if he's not shaping up to be a top 6 guy then he will be playing elsewhere, this summer is critical

 

 

[saucypass]

2 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

I Don't remember seeing any prescribed playing weight for him

 

Very encouraging to see he"s interested enough to SAY the right things,  I still maintain that if he's not shaping up to be a top 6 guy then he will be playing elsewhere, this summer is critical

 

 

Thought I saw reports/tweets last summer about it? Something about him working closely with trainers in Van from the Canucks organization on gaining weight or losing weight or something. Oh well. 

 

Definitely, hope he produces well this coming season in the AHL. Maybe even take on a leadership role a year after that if things progress well. 

[Byrix]

57 minutes ago, suitup said:

Maybe even take on a leadership role a year after that if things progress well. 

Leadership... THAT part is probably 6+ more years away.

[BaerBoBoeser]

3 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

I Don't remember seeing any prescribed playing weight for him

 

Very encouraging to see he"s interested enough to SAY the right things,  I still maintain that if he's not shaping up to be a top 6 guy then he will be playing elsewhere, this summer is critical

 

 

He definitely didn't need to gain weight last year but the 'talk' was the Canucks training staff was working with him in the summer - that doesn't jive with the fact he showed up to camp out of shape.

 

Now out of shape could mean many things and none of us know it could mean

 

1. Laugh it up pudgeball

2. Put on alot of weight that even if muscle, on his frame makes it harder to get around the ice - expend more energy so he can't play a proper shift all out / length wise

3. Trained wrong and his aerobic shape wasn't up to snuff (could be caused by 1 or 2 )

 

Rumors say he was partying alot and living a celebrity life, I think we all know there is a hint of truth to that, and given that he is at home, making lots of money and 19 years old, like any kid he just acted like a kid - and likely why the Nucks wanted him in utica - to grow up (which we all also know needed to happen)

 

Regardless of whether he came to camp out of shape from partying/eating and not working out, or not working out right, he was out of shape

 

He came in at 225-230 ish - that is close to Bertuzzi weight and in this NHL , you need speed and quickness (which he has). They said green was skating him alot in utica too so its clearly a conditioning / aerobic issue

 

My hope is he comes into camp slimmed down to about 210 lbs, even 205. If he comes in with that weight and has worked hard aerobically - he will turn some heads with those wheels

[BaerBoBoeser]

On 3/13/2017 at 8:43 AM, Derp... said:

My post from the JV thread.
 

Hey Everybody. I know there are lots of people on the JV is not doing as well as I want train in the AHL train. There is of course some good reasoning for this, but I want to bring a couple things to your attention to help ease the pain. There is a reason both his coach and our GM are saying good things about Virtanen right now. Especially when we look at his peer group in the AHL this season.

Firstly there are 63 players between 19 and 21 in the AHL this year that have played more than 10 games. Let's look at the 5 on 5 stats for those players and see where Jake lines up.

First up Primary Assists Per 60 at 5v5:

Jake has 7 A1's this year, and is currently producing 0.84 A1's/60 that is 10th best out of 63 players some younger and older than him. Better than guys like, Barbashev, Dal Colle, McCann, Svechnikov, Gurianov, Goldobin, Fiala, Milano, Fischer, Meier, Scherbak, Kapanen, K. Connor, Roslovic, Schmaltz, Kempe, Vrana, Perlini, and more. Just take that in for a sec. Virtanen, the so called low hockey sense player is producing more primary assists at 5v5 than guys like Fiala, Goldobin, and Meier. That is a good sign if I ever saw one no?

Let's look at Secondary Assists per 60 5v5 (Also known as the great inflator):

Jake has produced only 0.24 A2's per 60. which is 17th lowest out of the 63 players at 5v5. I know it seems weird to think that less A2's is better than more, but it shows that Jake isn't benefiting from his linemates creating goals on their own so much. While other players are getting more help from teammates at 5v5 such as Barbashev, McCann, Svechnikov, Gurianov, Goldobin, Fiala, Milano, Fischer, Meier, Scherbak, K. Connor, Roslovic, Schmaltz, Vrana, Perlini, and more.

What about the lack of Goals?

It is a concern, but Jakes also been unlucky this year. He's averaging 2.27 shots per game in all situations, that's good for 14th best despite his limited power play time. He's also sporting the 7th worst shooting percentage at 4.5% which is not sustainable in my opinion. For comparison, the top goals/60 players in all situations have shooting percentages that range from 9% (Fiala)to 28.5%! (Perlini). 13 players have a shooting percentage more than 3X what Jake has currently. 45 have more than double Jakes Sh%. The average shooting percentage is 11.1%. If Jake had the average shooting percentage he would have 12 goals this year. The average amount of goals for all 63 players is currently 8.43 in all situations. 8 even strength goals would put him in the top 15 for goals total and the top 15 for goals per 60 at evens.

All together Jake is performing better than average at 5v5 in 6 areas while being younger than the average 19-21 year old in the AHL with less than average ice time by about 3-4 shifts.

 

• Primary Assists Total
• A1/GP
• A1/60
• QOT is slightly worse than average
• Shots per game (14th best with 2.27, avg. is 1.76)
• Shots/60 is 13.26 that is tied for 4th best with DeBrusk (Only Fiala, Perlini, and Kapanen have better shots per 60)
   

As you can see although the points aren't there yet, Jake Virtanen is actually performing pretty well with his peer group in certain areas in the AHL. Don't be all Doom and Gloom! He's been a bit unlucky, but is still generating offense in a positive way.

Stats from http://prospect-stats.com/AHL/2016/forwards/?state_selected=5v5

Good post - interesting stats on the 1a and very positive

As you said goal scoring is a concern and while you say his low shootiing % is not sustainable (as usually that low is not for a talented forward, and as such it should eventually revert to the mean - ie move up over time), one concern would be (and I doubt there is a stat on it) where is he shooting from

 

If he's shooting alot from distance, the outside it would make sense that he's not scoring and his percentage is low - that works in Junior where his shot could over power goalies - AHL no way

 

So, in my view I wish we knew 'where the majority of his shots are coming from'. If below the hash marks between the dots in high danger areas and the 'dirty areas below the circles (where Burr made a living) , ok it will eventually start going in. If outside the circles, not in danger areas, then he needs to start working harder to get to the net.

[VIC_CITY]

Sure, the guy is young (and dumb) and maybe he'll grow out of it. But is JV really smarty enough to manipulate Benning into drafting him? How were there no reports of this behaviour from his days with the Hitmen? Are my expectations too high? Have we been spoiled with Horvat? Ugggh!

[aGENT]

23 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

Sure, the guy is young (and dumb) and maybe he'll grow out of it. But is JV really smarty enough to manipulate Benning into drafting him? How were there no reports of this behaviour from his days with the Hitmen? Are my expectations too high? Have we been spoiled with Horvat? Ugggh!

Are you telling me that well known, young professional athletes aren't all 'salt of the earth' types who sometimes parlay their status, physical fitness, wealth etc in to occasional partying?!? 

 

I AM SHOCKED!! 

 

 

 

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Sure, the guy is young (and dumb) and maybe he'll grow out of it. But is JV really smarty enough to manipulate Benning into drafting him? How were there no reports of this behaviour from his days with the Hitmen? Are my expectations too high? Have we been spoiled with Horvat? Ugggh!

Yes and yes.

The only hockey players that don't tend to party are the ones that are "in love" with their high school GFs,  Everyone else parties and takes full advantage of their "status".  Can you imagine being highschool/university age having 9's and 10's throwing them selves at you, eventually it gets to a persons head.

 

As long as the player doesn't let the higher goal (NHL play) get out of sight i honestly don't see an issue with it either. 

[MJDDawg]

22 hours ago, cookieeater55 said:

 

This is a far different tone from Green than what we heard earlier this year.

 

He sure has a way with bringing a player back down to earth,  then building up their confidence.

 

Love this.

Edited March 16, 2017 by MJDDawg

[VIC_CITY]

23 hours ago, J.R. said:

Are you telling me that well known, young professional athletes aren't all 'salt of the earth' types who sometimes parlay their status, physical fitness, wealth etc in to occasional womanizing?!? 

 

I AM SHOCKED!! 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact that he showed up to camp out of shape and is barely producing in the AHL, I find it extremely frustrating. I feel like he has a sense of entitlement and lack of commitment that is really getting under my skin this morning. 

[Pepe Silvia]

22 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

The fact that he showed up to camp out of shape and is barely producing in the AHL, I find it extremely frustrating. I feel like he has a sense of entitlement and lack of commitment that is really getting under my skin this morning.

The fact that you take this so personally is concerning.

[VIC_CITY]

6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yes and yes.

The only hockey players that don't tend to party are the ones that are "in love" with their high school GFs,  Everyone else parties and takes full advantage of their "status".  Can you imagine being highschool/university age having 9's and 10's throwing them selves at you, eventually it gets to a persons head.

 

As long as the player doesn't let the higher goal (NHL play) get out of sight i honestly don't see an issue with it either. 

Yes but when you look at the guys that were drafted behind Virtanen and the fact that they're producing at the NHL level, I think it's fair to have issues with this behaviour. As a Canucks fan, I could care less what your life is like outside of the rink (within reason), as long as you produce when you throw that jersey on.

 

When Jamie Benn was younger, I heard similar things about his offseason behaviours. I fully expected him to crap the bed the following year. I was wrong.

 

So by all means, go out and have fun. But when your fun is clearly getting in the way of your dedication and success as a Canuck. That's when we have a problem.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Yes but when you look at the guys that were drafted behind Virtanen and the fact that they're producing at the NHL level, I think it's fair to have issues with this behaviour. As a Canucks fan, I could care less what your life is like outside of the rink (within reason), as long as you produce when you throw that jersey on.

 

When Jamie Benn was younger, I heard similar things about his offseason behaviours. I fully expected him to crap the bed the following year. I was wrong.

 

So by all means, go out and have fun. But when your fun is clearly getting in the way of your dedication and success as a Canuck. That's when we have a problem.

If "fun" is seriously negatively effecting one's ability to do their job, is that an addiction?  Jake is by no means a Johnny Football, but his off ice behaviour certainly could be addicting.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Yes but when you look at the guys that were drafted behind Virtanen and the fact that they're producing at the NHL level, I think it's fair to have issues with this behaviour. As a Canucks fan, I could care less what your life is like outside of the rink (within reason), as long as you produce when you throw that jersey on.

 

When Jamie Benn was younger, I heard similar things about his offseason behaviours. I fully expected him to crap the bed the following year. I was wrong.

 

So by all means, go out and have fun. But when your fun is clearly getting in the way of your dedication and success as a Canuck. That's when we have a problem.

This:

 

17 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yes and yes.

The only hockey players that don't tend to party are the ones that are "in love" with their high school GFs,  Everyone else parties and takes full advantage of their "status".  Can you imagine being highschool/university age having 9's and 10's throwing them selves at you, eventually it gets to a persons head.

 

As long as the player doesn't let the higher goal (NHL play) get out of sight i honestly don't see an issue with it either. 

...and this:

 

22 hours ago, cookieeater55 said:

 

NOBODY should be surprised that a 19 year old pro athlete with status, money and physique is immature and taking full advantage those things. Particularly with women.

 

99.9% of us would do the EXACT same thing in the same position, at the same age.

 

By all accounts both he and his game have done some maturing in Utica. That's all we should care about. He appears headed in the right direction.

 

It's also one of many reasons why I'm very much for him spending the majority of next year in Utica as well. Keep him away from all his home town friends, fame, NHL money and all the temptations that go along with those things and let him continue focusing on his craft with a likely far superior team in Utica. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

9 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Yes but when you look at the guys that were drafted behind Virtanen and the fact that they're producing at the NHL level, I think it's fair to have issues with this behaviour. As a Canucks fan, I could care less what your life is like outside of the rink (within reason), as long as you produce when you throw that jersey on.

 

When Jamie Benn was younger, I heard similar things about his offseason behaviours. I fully expected him to crap the bed the following year. I was wrong.

 

So by all means, go out and have fun. But when your fun is clearly getting in the way of your dedication and success as a Canuck. That's when we have a problem.

 

Do you think Nylander and Ehlers don't party?  I guarantee they do and I guarantee there's a large number of girls that also "don't like them" .  I've heard so many stories about Rat boy from friends in the NHL and he's leading the league in points. 

 

I don't know if Jake's partying has anything to do with his development.  No in the same way Kassian did.  If anything jake just needs some tough love and build some confidence, last year was a roller coaster of emotions.  Let him settle back in and get the hang of the pro sport.